Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

I thought the reason behind Frieza's power up was explained fairly well all things considered.

Goku went from 416 to a max of 32,000 from training a few months. If Frieza whose natural power level was 120 million increased at a similar rate and it could easily be more since he was starting from scratch and was supposed to be a prodigy then it'd easily rack him up into the billions.

Trunk' power up never made sense but then I never thought Vegeta's power up made that much sense either. I know everyone keeps saying "but he had special training with Whis" but all we ever saw him do is change bed sheets, cut the grass, scrub the trees and lift blocks.

Whis even said there was no need for them to be there and they'd benefit from just slugging it out behind a school.

[ekrolo2]

Goku gets that strong because he has the training to make it believable. Freeza doesn't. The movie gives us nothing, the manga (rightfully) considers the whole story pointless and skips it and the anime pretty much tells us that he gets into the hundreds of billions range by using Tagoma for live target practice. Okay, how is that any different from what he usually does? Freeza goes through grunts the same way most of us go through toilet paper, why didn't any of those random acts of cruel punishment give him a power boost? Why doesn't he get twice as strong from killing Cargo?

But lets get to the crux of why Freeza's potential isn't a good excuse: Future Gohan. He has just as much potential as the main series Gohan yet he's barely any stronger than his dad was when he fought Freeza and Cold, why? Because he has no ROSAT, no gravity machine, no sparring partner, absolutely no worthwhile training method to get any stronger. Freeza had none of these either yet he can murder stomp SS3 Vegetto after 4 months? Hell no.

[Alruneia]

But If Toriyama will not make any comparison, we'll never know, sadly. Not until we see Beerus 100%.

<snip>

Hey, hey. Don't misquote me. Please review your posts before posting.

[DBZ Macky]

Hey, hey. Don't misquote me. Please review your posts before posting.

Whoops! That was a silly mistake
I'm sorry for any trouble I might have caused.

the anime pretty much tells us that he gets into the hundreds of billions range by using Tagoma for live target practice. Okay, how is that any different from what he usually does? Freeza goes through grunts the same way most of us go through toilet paper, why didn't any of those random acts of cruel punishment give him a power boost? Why doesn't he get twice as strong from killing Cargo?

That scene was added to show Tagoma's ridiculous gains, not Freeza's. It's possible that the torture part was just a post-workout stress-reliever for Freeza. His actual training must be quite rigorous, I imagine.
His actual training probably consisted of him trying to survive Sorbet's laser for sure.

[ekrolo2]

His actual training probably consisted of him trying to survive Sorbet's laser for sure.

[Bullza]

Goku gets that strong because he has the training to make it believable. Freeza doesn't.

Well perhaps there was more to what he did with Tagoma then we saw, they didn't really show much. Whether the method of his strenght increasing made sense or not is arguable I suppose but him actually reaching that level from training was believable.

The Nameks, Earthlings and Saiyans have all increased their power many times over, thousands, millions even. If Frieza could get even a fraction of that then him being able to get that strong makes sense.

It's Tagoma getting so strong is what was ridiculous. They could have at least said something about his kind receiving zenkais similar to the Saiyans or something. If he got four months worth of consecutive zenkias then I'd be alright with him being as strong as Gohan I guess.

[DBZ Macky]

It's Tagoma getting so strong is what was ridiculous. They could have at least said something about his kind receiving zenkais similar to the Saiyans or something. If he got four months worth of consecutive zenkias then I'd be alright with him being as strong as Gohan I guess.

How strong are Tagoma and Gohan anyways? I remember some people saying Tagoma is Ultimate Gohan level because of some translations having Gohan say something along the lines of "[Tagoma] might possess power comparable to my prime".
And how is Gohan stronger than Piccolo? He definitely isn't "Mystic", is this confirmation that Base Saiyans > Piccolo, at least in the anime?

[ekrolo2]

It's Tagoma getting so strong is what was ridiculous. They could have at least said something about his kind receiving zenkais similar to the Saiyans or something. If he got four months worth of consecutive zenkias then I'd be alright with him being as strong as Gohan I guess.

How strong are Tagoma and Gohan anyways? I remember some people saying Tagoma is Ultimate Gohan level because of some translations having Gohan say something along the lines of "[Tagoma] might possess power comparable to my prime".
And how is Gohan stronger than Piccolo? He definitely isn't "Mystic", is this confirmation that Base Saiyans > Piccolo, at least in the anime?

Base Goku & Vegeta are already above Piccolo in the anime thanks to absoprtion and Base Gohan's power was raised to massive heights with his Ultimate State. His better performance against Tagoma and the fact he needs to use Super Saiyan's boost to match his Boo arc prime is what leads people to, pretty rightfully if you ask me, assume he's above Piccolo.

In the manga, none of the Base Saiyan's are above Piccolo since that cut out the whole absorption business with God Ki.

[HeroR]

It's Tagoma getting so strong is what was ridiculous. They could have at least said something about his kind receiving zenkais similar to the Saiyans or something. If he got four months worth of consecutive zenkias then I'd be alright with him being as strong as Gohan I guess.

How strong are Tagoma and Gohan anyways? I remember some people saying Tagoma is Ultimate Gohan level because of some translations having Gohan say something along the lines of "[Tagoma] might possess power comparable to my prime".
And how is Gohan stronger than Piccolo? He definitely isn't "Mystic", is this confirmation that Base Saiyans > Piccolo, at least in the anime?

Gohan still got his power unlocked. It never went away. He just can't access all of it until he goes Super Saiyan.

I also see nothing wrong with Tagoma's power. We're just used to the heroes getting stupid power-ups from training, that it seems unfair when the villains do it.

[RandomGuy96]

If Freeza had made sure to devote the afternoon before the dragon was summoned to doing 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, a 10 km run, he would've easily been able to beat the legendary Super Saiyan by ripping off his dick and beating him to death with it. If he had made sure to do any sort of workout after being Mecha'd, in the nearly two year gap he had, Trunks and Goku both would've been reduced to dust by the force he exerts when powering up. Great storytelling here, really.

[DBZ Macky]

If Freeza had made sure to devote the afternoon before the dragon was summoned to doing 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, a 10 km run, he would've easily been able to beat the legendary Super Saiyan by ripping off his dick and beating him to death with it. If he had made sure to do any sort of workout after being Mecha'd, in the nearly two year gap he had, Trunks and Goku both would've been reduced to dust by the force he exerts when powering up. Great storytelling here, really.

And with this as my inspiration, I'll propose a theory that should, in principle, explain everything.
Tagoma breaks his limiter and becomes as strong as his race can possibly get, which is a lot.
Freeza breaks his limiter and becomes as strong as his race can possibly get, which is even more than Tagoma's race.
Trunks breaks his limiter and becomes as strong as Saiyans can possibly get, which is even more than Freeza's race.

There, done.

[Noah]

And with this as my inspiration, I'll propose a theory that should, in principle, explain everything.
Tagoma breaks his limiter and becomes as strong as his race can possibly get, which is a lot.
Freeza breaks his limiter and becomes as strong as his race can possibly get, which is even more than Tagoma's race.
Trunks breaks his limiter and becomes as strong as Saiyans can possibly get, which is even more than Freeza's race.

There, done.

But... HOW?

[Marlowe89]

If Freeza had made sure to devote the afternoon before the dragon was summoned to doing 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, a 10 km run, he would've easily been able to beat the legendary Super Saiyan by ripping off his dick and beating him to death with it. If he had made sure to do any sort of workout after being Mecha'd, in the nearly two year gap he had, Trunks and Goku both would've been reduced to dust by the force he exerts when powering up. Great storytelling here, really.

I don't mind it from a storytelling perspective because it really accentuates the entire flaw of Freeza's character. His absurd natural strength was matched only by his sheer arrogance, so at the time he probably thought the very notion of training to be beneath him. Only after spending years in Hell was he able to finally see the necessity of training if he was to achieve his revenge.

[DBZ Macky]

But... HOW?

100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, 10km run, no A.C. and not skipping breakfast (A banana is fine too) FOR 4 MONTHS!!
That, and drinking plenty of juice.

[HeroR]

If Freeza had made sure to devote the afternoon before the dragon was summoned to doing 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, a 10 km run, he would've easily been able to beat the legendary Super Saiyan by ripping off his dick and beating him to death with it. If he had made sure to do any sort of workout after being Mecha'd, in the nearly two year gap he had, Trunks and Goku both would've been reduced to dust by the force he exerts when powering up. Great storytelling here, really.

I don't mind it from a storytelling perspective because it really accentuates the entire flaw of Freeza's character. His absurd natural strength was matched only by his sheer arrogance, so at the time he probably thought the very notion of training to be beneath him. Only after spending years in Hell was he able to finally see the necessity of training if he was to achieve his revenge.

This is my thoughts. Freeza could have remained the strongest mortal in the universe and easily destroyed the supposed Legendary Super Saiyan. And yet, he is done in by his own laziness not once, but twice. It shows that despite having the talent, Freeza never had the discipline to be the best in the universe and hard work trumps natural talent when that talent isn't maintained.

I am not sure why people have problem with this from a story perspective since this is the same moron who feared the Saiyans…yet kept the strongest Saiyan alive and kept screwing with Goku instead of killing him when he had the chance. What makes you believe that Freeza had it in him to be logical, even when he trying to be logical.

[ekrolo2]

This is my thoughts. Freeza could have remained the strongest mortal in the universe and easily destroyed the supposed Legendary Super Saiyan. And yet, he is done in by his own laziness not once, but twice. It shows that despite having the talent, Freeza never had the discipline to be the best in the universe and hard work trumps natural talent when that talent isn't maintained.

I am not sure why people have problem with this from a story perspective since this is the same moron who feared the Saiyans…yet kept the strongest Saiyan alive and kept screwing with Goku instead of killing him when he had the chance. What makes you believe that Freeza had it in him to be logical, even when he trying to be logical.

Having it happen once is fine, but twice is nothing but a boring retread in a franchise steadily suffocating in boring retreads.

[Bullza]

How strong are Tagoma and Gohan anyways?

Base Gohan is supposed to be stronger than Piccolo and Tagoma is supposed to be as strong as Base Gohan.

That seems to go against the idea that Base Goku was weaker than Frieza. Which has led people to say that either Base Goku was suppressed and actually was stronger than Frieza or that Gohan kept some of his Mystic power in his Base form etc.

I suppose Super Saiyan Gohan could be equal to the old Mystic Gohan though.

[HeroR]

How strong are Tagoma and Gohan anyways?

Base Gohan is supposed to be stronger than Piccolo and Tagoma is supposed to be as strong as Base Gohan.

That seems to go against the idea that Base Goku was weaker than Frieza. Which has led people to say that either Base Goku was suppressed and actually was stronger than Frieza or that Gohan kept some of his Mystic power in his Base form etc.

I suppose Super Saiyan Gohan could be equal to the old Mystic Gohan though.

I do believe Goku was suppressed when Beerus looked over him, but I highly doubt Goku's base was higher than Piccolo since Piccolo is at least stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell.

By Gohan's own words, he just couldn't reach his maximum power without transforming.

[Helios518]

I thought the reason behind Frieza's power up was explained fairly well all things considered.

Goku went from 416 to a max of 32,000 from training a few months. If Frieza whose natural power level was 120 million increased at a similar rate and it could easily be more since he was starting from scratch and was supposed to be a prodigy then it'd easily rack him up into the billions.

Trunk' power up never made sense but then I never thought Vegeta's power up made that much sense either. I know everyone keeps saying "but he had special training with Whis" but all we ever saw him do is change bed sheets, cut the grass, scrub the trees and lift blocks.

Whis even said there was no need for them to be there and they'd benefit from just slugging it out behind a school.

No because if higher natural power had correlation with training gains then Vegeta would be far surpassed Goku.

[HeroR]

I thought the reason behind Frieza's power up was explained fairly well all things considered.

Goku went from 416 to a max of 32,000 from training a few months. If Frieza whose natural power level was 120 million increased at a similar rate and it could easily be more since he was starting from scratch and was supposed to be a prodigy then it'd easily rack him up into the billions.

Trunk' power up never made sense but then I never thought Vegeta's power up made that much sense either. I know everyone keeps saying "but he had special training with Whis" but all we ever saw him do is change bed sheets, cut the grass, scrub the trees and lift blocks.

Whis even said there was no need for them to be there and they'd benefit from just slugging it out behind a school.

No because if higher natural power had correlation with training gains then Vegeta would be far surpassed Goku.

According to Vegeta, Goku has more talent than him. And Vegeta trained harder, not smarter until he met Whis.