Theory: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis

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Theory: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis

Post by CatlyNat » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:06 pm

Before I start, quick forum suggestion. No confirmation page with Submit button...? I accidentally pressed the button...lol

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I bet on my soul. I bet you, on my soul, that Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Hear me out. Look at this one picture.

Image
(Ignore all the downloads please)

I know i'm late with this, and i'm sorry for the thread if it's already been guessed. I meam, Champa Saga, really?...but I NEVER found anything about this. I thought about this two days ago and thought deeply, so hear me out. Again.
When you look at the picture, who do you see? Videl's there, as is Pan. Gohan? Oh no, he's not even watching the Tournament. He said he had to do something on the day of the tournament, some conference or something idk. So that means that throughout all of the Champa Saga, Gohan is the ONLY Z-Fighter to have stayed on Earth throughout the whole saga. He never left the planet. He doesn't know what Champa looks like, he doesn't know any of the Universe 6's fighters.

After the tournament, we all know that Beerus makes a wish to Super Shenlon. Copy U7 Earth, and replace U6 Earth with Copied U7 Earth. It surely must have copied ALL people that was on the planet at the time of the wish. Think...

That's right. Gohan likely got copied, along with his power, and brought to U6. Meaning that there are 2 different Gohans now. Yup.

The events on U7 Earth is clear. We all know what happens here. "Monaka" fights Goku, Trunks creates yet another timeline (GG Trunks), Kaiōshins of U7 and U10 go to HoT timeline. And then we have the 12 Universe Tournament. No need to cover this.

The events on U6 Earth however, this is my guess.
Gohan is waiting for Videl and the others to arrive. He waits and waits, but apparently, after days of waiting, no one arrived. He gets a little worried and all, so who knows what happens. Maybe (probably) he thinks everyone got killed; so maybe THIS Gohan will start training. Later on, Gohan meets Champa & Vados. Champa, not knowing who Gohan is, does sense that Gohan is quite strong for an Earthling, and Champa asks Gohan questions. Gohan says he is the son of Goku, and a half-Saiyan. Champa then had the idea to have Vados train Gohan, for the future tournament or something. Gohan might be confused, but he and Vados agrees to Champa's ideas, especially as Gohan realizes that ...y'know. The "I need to protect my family" part. Gohan also realizes that this is a VERY good chance to train. So he accepts.

This is how Gohan turns SSJB, after a lot of training. Gohan would surpass Vegeta & Goku, especially if Vados is stronger than Whis (you better make her stronger, @Akira Toriyama). Gohan trains and trains...and then the 12 universe tournaments things (I'll just say Omniversal Tournament) begins.

On U7's team, we obviously have Goku and Vegeta.
On U6's team, we have Hit and U6 Gohan. U6Gohan is finally able to see his family again, and explains the rest how Vados trained Gohan. This is where Beerus realized his wish also copied Gohan and all, so...yeah. So the Tournaments start.

After a long day, I think that Universe SIX would win. A trained Hit... A trained Gohan...yeah... Gohan however has not surpassed Whis nor Vados. No one has.

Then we have the next Saga, in which we know absolutely nothing about. This new villain would be powerful. Too powerful. No one can beat him, Beerus' OP Destruction has no effect. He's a lot more powerful than Whis and Vados. No Z-Fighter however has surpassed Whis or Vados, let alone combined. Maybe beerus...but definitely not the others.

So, who's gonna defeat him? Vegeto? Nah. Vegeta is an obvious exception to surpassing Whis and Vados. But at this point, I believe it would be something else. At this point, U7Gohan might have trained again, and reached a decent level. He's reaching his Buu Saga counterpart's power. Finally. (Ultimate, of course, not...SSJ2) So this means that U7Gohan is powerful once again. So...what would happen?

You've probably guessed it but I'd bet that Gohan would fuse...with Gohan. U6Gohan would be a very powerful fighter, stronger than Goku, for sure, and is a lot more experienced. He's trained. He's not his dull Buu-saga-counterpart. U7Gohan would not be as experienced nor as powerful, but these two boys are the exact same. So...use the Potara rings. U6Gohan+U7Gohan=Gohan.
This new fused Gohan would look the same, and have the same voice, but act slightly sifferent. Their powers...well, it should have increased by a TON. However, he's technically still one person. U6Gohan likely could have felt lonely and all, so him fusing with U7Gohan would be a pretty good thing for U6Gohan.

As it would technically be the exact same person, just a lot more powerful, Gohan, with fight experience, has now surpassed Whis. And this is how he surpasses Whis, and Vados.


Toriyama surely has thought something special for Gohan. By being a damn nerd he becomes more powerful than Whis. And it doesn't seem like a fanthingwhatsitcalled; it's a completely valid reason IMO.
What i wrote right here above is exactly what I think.will happen. U6 team being Hit and U6Gohan, U6G and U7G fusing into Gohan in a future arc. Gohan actually becoming a major character, Gohan defeating a villain. I hope this will happen, since it's in some way already hinted that Gohan will be strong again. But...Anytging can happen right now. This is probably something for in a year, maybe even two tbh. We'll see.

What are your thoughts on this?
I'm honestly so crazy about gohan I love him (he's my type lol)
Scholar DBZ Gohan > Teen Gohan > DBS Gohan > Kid Gohan > ゴレートサイヤマンさま > Adult/Ultimate Gohan

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:47 pm

The wish wasn't to make a copy of everyone in Universe 7's Earth. The wish was simply to restore the Earth that once existed in Universe 6.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:55 am

Fact Checker wrote:Context: Vados gets a notification.

 19:55 | Vados: "Humanity has been revived on the Earth in Universe 6."
 20:01 | Vados: "What's more, their culture is like that of Universe 7's Earth."
 20:06 | Champa: "Which means..."
 20:07 | Vados: "...that we, too, can eat the delicious foods of Earth."
 20:32 | Whis: "You are too kind."
 20:33 | Beerus: "Shut it. I only did it so that Champa would owe me one."

Significance: Universe 6's Earth is quite similar to Universe 7's Earth.
Beerus' wish didn't replicate Universe 7's Earth. It strictly restored Universe 6's Earth, humans, and society. It's similar, but only due to twin universes sharing the same system of planets. It doesn't suggest that doubles of established characters exist. Gohan and the rest of Universe 7's Earthling inhabitants wouldn't be ported over exactly as you're theorizing. The natives of Universe 6's Earth are unique to their own universe. Additionally, the narrative has not suggested Future Trunks split the timeline again. Just as he learned how to time travel without causing complications in the Cell arc, he used the exact same method in the Future Trunks arc to return to Goku's era. Had that not been the case, Future Trunks and Goku wouldn't be familiar with each other as intended. Their conversations confirm that he's the same individual who assisted in the Cell Game.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:43 am

Nejishiki wrote:
Fact Checker wrote:Context: Vados gets a notification.

 19:55 | Vados: "Humanity has been revived on the Earth in Universe 6."
 20:01 | Vados: "What's more, their culture is like that of Universe 7's Earth."
 20:06 | Champa: "Which means..."
 20:07 | Vados: "...that we, too, can eat the delicious foods of Earth."
 20:32 | Whis: "You are too kind."
 20:33 | Beerus: "Shut it. I only did it so that Champa would owe me one."

Significance: Universe 6's Earth is quite similar to Universe 7's Earth.
Beerus' wish didn't replicate Universe 7's Earth. It strictly restored Universe 6's Earth, humans, and society. It's similar, but only due to twin universes sharing the same system of planets. It doesn't suggest that doubles of established characters exist. Gohan and the rest of Universe 7's Earthling inhabitants wouldn't be ported over exactly as you're theorizing. The natives of Universe 6's Earth are unique to their own universe. Additionally, the narrative has not suggested Future Trunks split the timeline again. Just as he learned how to time travel without causing complications in the Cell arc, he used the exact same method in the Future Trunks arc to return to Goku's era. Had that not been the case, Future Trunks and Goku wouldn't be familiar with each other as intended. Their conversations confirm that he's the same individual who assisted in the Cell Game.
Trunks did split the timeline. We are now viewing Timeline 5 whereas Trunks originally arrived to Timeline 4 back in the Androids Saga. Timeline 4 and 5 were the exact same until very recently, but in Timeline 4 Zamasu stole Goku's body whereas now thanks to Trunks' interference the timeline has been split and Timeline 5 has been created, in this timeline Beerus kills Zamasu and Goku keeps his body.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:09 am

As noted, Future Trunks' method of time travel remained static after he first realized he split the timeline. He knows how to avoid that problem now. Gowasu's box reveals four parallel worlds. Zamasu became Goku Black in the present's future of Goku's era. He used the Time Ring to enter Future Trunks' era with faultless time travel, as well. Future Trunks arrived before Zamasu was inspired to become Goku Black in the present period. Beerus and Whis were able to stop him before he killed Gowasu "again". Despite the lone Babari dying 1000 years into the future with faultless time travel, Goku Black wasn't affected by changes to the past. Future Trunks' is only "blamed" by Goku Black and Future Zamasu for ensuring Goku's survival due to time traveling at all.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:15 am

Nejishiki wrote:As noted, Future Trunks' method of time travel remained static after he first realized he split the timeline. He knows how to avoid that problem now. Gowasu's box reveals four parallel worlds. Zamasu became Goku Black in the present's future of Goku's era. He used the Time Ring to enter Future Trunks' era with faultless time travel, as well. Future Trunks arrived before Zamasu was inspired to become Goku Black in the present period. Beerus and Whis were able to stop him before he killed Gowasu "again". Despite the lone Babari dying 1000 years into the future with faultless time travel, Goku Black wasn't affected by changes to the past. Future Trunks' is only "blamed" by Goku Black and Future Zamasu for ensuring Goku's survival due to time traveling at all.
That's what I'm saying, by coming to past Trunks has created a new timeline in which Goku survives. In the "original" timeline Zamasu steals Goku's body and becomes Black. And the reason Black is unaffected by Trunks' actions is because Trunks' method of time travel doesn't have any effect on other timelines, so whatever actions he takes in Timeline 5 will make no difference in Timeline 4.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:30 am

Your diction of "creation" is dangerous then. You realize it implies an entirely new split, unique to Dragon Ball Super, in our context, right? :D Anyway, the chart claims that the timelines are reorganized back into two lines of time for those particular events. Think a bit fluidly and see time as a location. In Location A, the circumstances of Goku Black were able to happen. In Location B, Future Trunks was bothered by Goku Black's shenanigans. Future Trunks decides to visit Location A, Goku Black's era, which is also Goku's era as indirectly acknowledged in Dragon Ball Super episode 63. We get an earlier example when Zamasu and Gowasu travel 1000 years and back into Location A with faultless time travel. That allows for the story to unfold as it does in the Future Trunks arc without splitting the timeline like Future Trunks and Cell had unknowingly done at first and never repeated. It's similar to the Cell arc in which we were the final product. It's the same here. We're witnessing the final configurations.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:36 am

Nejishiki wrote:Your diction of "creation" is dangerous then. You realize it implies an entirely new split, unique to Dragon Ball Super, in our context, right? :D Anyway, the chart claims that the timelines are reorganized back into two lines of time for those particular events. Think a bit fluidly and see time as a location. In Location A, the circumstances of Goku Black were able to happen. In Location B, Future Trunks was bothered by Goku Black's shenanigans. Future Trunks decides to visit Location A, Goku Black's era, which is also Goku's era as indirectly acknowledged in Dragon Ball Super episode 63. We get an earlier example when Zamasu and Gowasu travel 1000 years and back into Location A with faultless time travel. That allows for the story to unfold as it does in the Future Trunks arc without splitting the timeline like Future Trunks and Cell had unknowingly done at first and never repeated. It's similar to the Cell arc in which we were the final product. It's the same here. We're witnessing the final configurations.
This location A itself seems to have been split into A1 and A2 as both Trunks and Zamasu have exerted their influence over it through time travel, though, Zamasu uses it to get the Super DBs and take Goku's body and Trunks comes back and unknowingly stops Zamasu from doing this as his time travel ultimately leads to Zamasu's plan being foiled by Beerus and Whis. So A1 is the original A in which Zamasu wins, and Trunks replaces it with A2 in which Zamasu gets killed before he can time travel.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:50 am

It's getting a bit warmer, I think. The interpretation I'm going with, and what seems to be supported by timelines "reorganizing", is that everything took place in Goku's era. The only other timeline that was involved was Future Trunks' era. Rather than Goku's era having a "split", the future of it was allowed to change because Beerus and Whis got a jump on Zamasu's plans before he became Goku Black. However, as cited by the story, the Time Ring protected him from future changes of Goku's era (the past in Goku Black's perspective). Future Trunks' sole influence was jump-starting Zamasu's hatred further. Zamasu's influence already occurred. We're in the middle of it right now. He used the Time Ring to become Goku Black. While his actions, for lack of a better word, have been corrected in Goku's era (especially his future wish), there's nothing that can be done about him in Future Trunks' era. The only time traveling he did in that world involved using the Super Dragon Balls of Future Trunks' era twice. That's tied to that world and would need more time shenanigans to prevent it like in "Location A". Essentially, I think we have traditional time traveling rather than the Cell arc method.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:55 am

Nejishiki wrote:It's getting a bit warmer, I think. The interpretation I'm going with, and what seems to be supported by timelines "reorganizing", is that everything took place in Goku's era. The only other timeline that was involved was Future Trunks' era. Rather than Goku's era having a "split", the future of it was allowed to change because Beerus and Whis got a jump on Zamasu's plans before he became Goku Black. However, as cited by the story, the Time Ring protected him from future changes of Goku's era (the past in Goku Black's perspective). Future Trunks' sole influence was jump-starting Zamasu's hatred further. Zamasu's influence already occurred. We're in the middle of it right now. He used the Time Ring to become Goku Black. While his actions, for lack of a better word, have been corrected in Goku's era (especially his future wish), there's nothing that can be done about him in Future Trunks' era. The only time traveling he did in that world involved using the Super Dragon Balls of Future Trunks' era twice. That's tied to that world and would need more time shenanigans to prevent it like in "Location A". Essentially, I think we have traditional time traveling rather than the Cell arc method.
Wait, so what you're trying to say is rather than the timelines splitting, Black's future simply ceased to exist?

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:57 am

I'm thinking that Goku Black's timeline is our timeline because the story is asserting Goku Black is present Zamasu. That's why I used the location example. Future Trunks traveled back into Goku Black's past, which happens to be the present of Dragon Ball Super proper.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:13 am

Nejishiki wrote:I'm thinking that Goku Black's timeline is our timeline because the story is asserting Goku Black is present Zamasu. That's why I used the location example. Future Trunks traveled back into Goku Black's past, which happens to be the present of Dragon Ball Super proper.
It seems we have the same interpretation but different ways of wording it.
Let me clarify my view:
Zamasu and our Goku are both from Timeline 4, and without Trunks' recent interference Zamasu was able to steal Goku's body and invade Trunks' timeline (Timeline 3).
When Trunks came back to the past to tell them about Black he inadvertently saved Goku from being possessed as Black followed him and Beerus and Whis were able to deduce that his ki resembled Zamasu's, which eventually led to Zamasu being stopped before he could murder Gowasu and use the Time ring, this is Timeline 5, the one in which Goku is saved.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:38 pm

I think the numbering designation is where we find conflict. I'm not really gathering that a "4" turned into a "5". It's more along the line that a 4 altered itself with changes. The heart of what we're discussing is in agreement, you're right. The tiniest details are territory that I feel are simple and clean enough for the sake of Dragon Ball's spirit.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:53 pm

Nejishiki wrote:I think the numbering designation is where we find conflict. I'm not really gathering that a "4" turned into a "5". It's more along the line that a 4 altered itself with changes. The heart of what we're discussing is in agreement, you're right. The tiniest details are territory that I feel are simple and clean enough for the sake of Dragon Ball's spirit.
It's kind of like how Trunks (Timeline 1) originally came back to the day Goku returned to warn him and created Timeline 2, in this Timeline there's only the androids to deal with and they deactivate them, Trunks goes back to his own Timeline but ends up getting killed by Cell who steals his time machine to go back even further. This causes another split and creates Timelines 3 and 4, Timeline 3 being Trunks' current Timeline, the one in which he survives as he has knowledge of Cell and is much stronger, and Timeline 4, the one in which the main series took place until now. Whenever someone goes back to the past using the time machine to change something, it seems to result in the creation of a new timeline.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by Nejishiki » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:18 pm

That's the gist of it, as it happened in the original story. Just as Future Trunks' return trip to Goku's era didn't split time again, I'm attempting to explain that Future Trunks accomplished the same result in returning to Dragon Ball Super. We have precedence, both with the original and current story, that he's aware of how to time travel without causing complications. The anime expresses importance in Bluma's notes. The manga explicitly claims he keeps the settings static. Both explanations serve to clear up that he will not split time anymore. In normal circumstances, the time machine can and did create new histories. However, nothing in the current narrative has suggested Future Trunks messed anything up to allow that scenario.

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Re: Gohan will be the first Z-Fighter to surpass Whis.

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:17 am

Nejishiki wrote:That's the gist of it, as it happened in the original story. Just as Future Trunks' return trip to Goku's era didn't split time again, I'm attempting to explain that Future Trunks accomplished the same result in returning to Dragon Ball Super. We have precedence, both with the original and current story, that he's aware of how to time travel without causing complications. The anime expresses importance in Bluma's notes. The manga explicitly claims he keeps the settings static. Both explanations serve to clear up that he will not split time anymore. In normal circumstances, the time machine can and did create new histories. However, nothing in the current narrative has suggested Future Trunks messed anything up to allow that scenario.
So what you're saying is something like this?
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