Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ssbgoku]

Well it been a while since I have been here, but of course I have been keep watching dragon ball super episodes and along with Trunks arc I am really curious about gap beetwen ss3 and ssb transformation. First as far I know surely ssg and ssb transfomations don't have set level, rather they are multiplier because ssb goku from tournament or rof sure are inferior to Trunks arc ssb goku/vegeta. I will try to make multiplier for ssb, so let's gather facts and all evidences:

1) At the begining of Bog arc, Goku was stated to be the strongest figher with ss3 transformation assumed, as it was never literally told in anime or manga. Also at least in the bog movie gohan was stated to be at his prime, albeit being drunk, so it could be questionably. Either way I will try to put ss3 goku as high as I can to make difference between ss3 and ssb not that vast. In other words I put that goku above super buu at least, somewhere close to ultimate gohan(however for sake of comparision I put goku above), so let's say buutenks's level. Whether base goku was inferior to 100% freeza or no, I will leave that.

bog ss3 goku ~ buutenks
buuhan - 2x bog ss3 goku

2) Now I put Base vegetto as inferior to buuhan as even in anime buuhan was shown toying around with Base vegetto. In the manga vegetto turned ss straight away. However if base gotenks was ss2 level, then let's say Base vegetto was ss3 level due to potara multiplier, possibly ss gotenks level. Ss3 gotenks is 4 times stronger then ss gotenks,and let's make buuhan 4 times super buu's power. It could put buuhan 16 times stronger then base Vegetto, arguablly ss vegetto was not putting any effort against buuhan so 3x being stronger could be low bailing, but I guess 5 times would surely alright to stomp someone. This.

post ss gotenks - base Vegetto
super buu ~ 4 x Base Vegetto
ss3 gotenks - 4 x base Vegetto
bog ss3 goku - buutenks - 8 x base Vegetto
buuhan - 16 x base Vegetto
ss Vegetto - 50 x base Vegetto
ssg goku - 56 x base Vegetto
ssb goku 64 x base Vegetto

3) In the battle of gods move ssg was revered as new world of power which even goku couldn't imagine being possible. Also in both movie and anime fusion was brought up and turned down by goku as not being enough. Due to Vegetto only reaching ss, I guess ssg goku would be only above ss vegetto and it would work. This way we get ssg goku being 7 times multiplier from ss3, so 2800 times base form.

4) I am not going into goku absorbing divine ki temporarly or absorbing it but need way to learn how to access that power(ssb and only by this form, rest just powered up) or goku absorbing it and ss being really ssg... which makes no damn sense, but that super anime for us ;p.

What do you think about gap between ssb and ss3 being only 8 times, too low or high ?. Also it makes it easy if we go by manga route: ss ss2 ss3 ssg ssb. This ssb is 3200 x base form.

Yeah, that only if any explanation is going to make sense and we know there are going to do everything on whim and everyone is as strong as plot require them to be...

[Bullza]

Super Saiyan God should be above Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. Goku said that fusing with Vegeta wouldn't work and Super Saiyan 3 Vegito is one possible result of their fusing.

[buutenks]

Think DBS has to many writers for PL to make any sense at all. Manga is more straight forward, since it has only one writer.

But, based off of Vegeta's statement, ssj blue is allot more powerful than ssj3. Also, in the anime, base Goku/Vegeta/Trunks(proly?)>>>ssj3 Gotenks

Also, ssg is in another realm of power. ssj3 Vegetto(dbz) cannot even touch ssg's pinky.

[Noah]

Super Saiyan God should be above Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. Goku said that fusing with Vegeta wouldn't work and Super Saiyan 3 Vegito is one possible result of their fusing.

But did Goku knew how strong would be Vegetto in his full power? Cause no one knows.

[Bullza]

But did Goku knew how strong would be Vegetto in his full power? Cause no one knows.

He'd probably have some general idea I guess, he was confident that Goten and Trunks fusing would beat Buu and they hadn't even done it yet and Goku wasn't half of that fusion.

From an out of universe point of view it'd just be a way of telling the audience that fusion in general wasnt good enough.

[ssbgoku]

Super Saiyan God should be above Super Saiyan 3 Vegito. Goku said that fusing with Vegeta wouldn't work and Super Saiyan 3 Vegito is one possible result of their fusing.

Sorry but ss3 vegetto doesn't exist, let's finally accept that fact. Anime is definietly supporting this claim, hell goku couldn't even feel full power of ss vegetto, just power he needed to beat up buuhan, so no. Ssg being above ss vegetto is still huge power up. Also I don't get, why it is hard for people to accept that 7-8 times gap is huge like another world. See ss3 vs ss no matter what arc.

I mean maybe while adapting only bog and rof ssg was supposed to be above ss3 vegetto and being 1000times of ss3 but as story progressed and there were some retconns/changes clearly the gap is that big or Trunks wouldn't be able to be close to them.

Think DBS has to many writers for PL to make any sense at all. Manga is more straight forward, since it has only one writer.

But, based off of Vegeta's statement, ssj blue is allot more powerful than ssj3. Also, in the anime, base Goku/Vegeta/Trunks(proly?)>>>ssj3 Gotenks

Also, ssg is in another realm of power. ssj3 Vegetto(dbz) cannot even touch ssg's pinky.

Sure, I agree. However then you doubt 8 times is huge gap ?. Let's say ss goku vs ss3 goku, the gap is huge and number of ss warriors wouldn't matter as picoolo stated number of ss2 wouldn't make difference against fat buu.

Another example would be 12.5% beerus vs 100% beerus, surely you would see difference...

[buutenks]

Sure, I agree. However then you doubt 8 times is huge gap ?. Let's say ss goku vs ss3 goku, the gap is huge and number of ss warriors wouldn't matter as picoolo stated number of ss2 wouldn't make difference against fat buu.

Another example would be 12.5% beerus vs 100% beerus, surely you would see difference...

Idk what is a huge gap. I just know that ssj blue, based of Vegeta's statement, and he should know, since he felt ssj blue Goku's ki is much greater than ssj3. Now idk how much greater translates into numbers. COuld be 100, could be 10, could be 4 or 5. Plus, i dont think it has any relevance. kind like how PL in the end dont really matter. Since everybody gets power boosts(or number boosts if u wish) depending on the plot.

Kinda how, Trunks went from being ssj2 level during his own mini buu saga arc, to being ssj blue level simply because the plot needed him to be that strong, similar to Freeza or Tagoma. Or how ssj2 and 3 are still strong, yet ssj3 gotenks is weak because he isnt relevant anymore.

In numbers, Trunks got from Pl 100, to 100,000 PL
Freeza got from PL 1, to 50,000 PL.

[ssbgoku]

Sure, I agree. However then you doubt 8 times is huge gap ?. Let's say ss goku vs ss3 goku, the gap is huge and number of ss warriors wouldn't matter as picoolo stated number of ss2 wouldn't make difference against fat buu.

Another example would be 12.5% beerus vs 100% beerus, surely you would see difference...

Idk what is a huge gap. I just know that ssj blue, based of Vegeta's statement, and he should know, since he felt ssj blue Goku's ki is much greater than ssj3. Now idk how much greater translates into numbers. COuld be 100, could be 10, could be 4 or 5. Plus, i dont think it has any relevance. kind like how PL in the end dont really matter. Since everybody gets power boosts(or number boosts if u wish) depending on the plot.

Kinda how, Trunks went from being ssj2 level during his own mini buu saga arc, to being ssj blue level simply because the plot needed him to be that strong, similar to Freeza or Tagoma. Or how ssj2 and 3 are still strong, yet ssj3 gotenks is weak because he isnt relevant anymore.

In numbers, Trunks got from Pl 100, to 100,000 PL
Freeza got from PL 1, to 50,000 PL.

Sure I agree about huge gap being up for people to see it as it fit. However with 7 times or 8 times gap between ss3 and ssb, it would surely work with anime. As Trunks would get from being almost as strong as ss3 to being quite close to ssb. I see it as that:

First Black meeting in Future(Goku and Vegeta accompanying Trunks to beat Black):

base goku/vegeta - 1
ss goku/vegeta - 50
ss2 goku/vegeta/trunks - 100
ss3 goku/ss2 max powered up Trunks - 400
base black - 600
ssb goku/vegeta - 3200
ssb goku/vegeta second meeting with black - 4200
ssr black - 4800 ( assuming ssr is same boost as ssb over ss3)
false ssb Trunks - 5000
enraged ssb goku - 5600
ssr black post beating - 6000
ssb goku - 6200
post rosat ssb vegeta - 7000
ssr black last time - 8000

[Bullza]

Sorry but ss3 vegetto doesn't exist

Well no as it's never needed to. If they wanted to they could easily become SSJ3 Vegito. They're about to become SSJB Vegito.

Super Saiyan 3 Vegito is Goku fusing with Vegeta and Goku said that that would not be enough.

[buutenks]

Sure, I agree. However then you doubt 8 times is huge gap ?. Let's say ss goku vs ss3 goku, the gap is huge and number of ss warriors wouldn't matter as picoolo stated number of ss2 wouldn't make difference against fat buu.

Another example would be 12.5% beerus vs 100% beerus, surely you would see difference...

Idk what is a huge gap. I just know that ssj blue, based of Vegeta's statement, and he should know, since he felt ssj blue Goku's ki is much greater than ssj3. Now idk how much greater translates into numbers. COuld be 100, could be 10, could be 4 or 5. Plus, i dont think it has any relevance. kind like how PL in the end dont really matter. Since everybody gets power boosts(or number boosts if u wish) depending on the plot.

Kinda how, Trunks went from being ssj2 level during his own mini buu saga arc, to being ssj blue level simply because the plot needed him to be that strong, similar to Freeza or Tagoma. Or how ssj2 and 3 are still strong, yet ssj3 gotenks is weak because he isnt relevant anymore.

In numbers, Trunks got from Pl 100, to 100,000 PL
Freeza got from PL 1, to 50,000 PL.

Sure I agree about huge gap being up for people to see it as it fit. However with 7 times or 8 times gap between ss3 and ssb, it would surely work with anime. As Trunks would get from being almost as strong as ss3 to being quite close to ssb. I see it as that:

First Black meeting in Future(Goku and Vegeta accompanying Trunks to beat Black):

base goku/vegeta - 1
ss goku/vegeta - 50
ss2 goku/vegeta/trunks - 100
ss3 goku/ss2 max powered up Trunks - 400
base black - 600
ssb goku/vegeta - 3200
ssb goku/vegeta second meeting with black - 4200
ssr black - 4800 ( assuming ssr is same boost as ssb over ss3)
false ssb Trunks - 5000
enraged ssb goku - 5600
ssr black post beating - 6000
ssb goku - 6200
post rosat ssb vegeta - 7000
ssr black last time - 8000

Hm if you r using the anime, ssj3 Goku is above max ssj2 Trunks. Plus in ep 57, Trunks while using ssj2 got as strong as a nssj blue. So he jumped from 400 to 4 k or so thanks to a small rage boost and some training from Vegeta. Also, i think Vegeta is still currently above Black Rose power wise. Black just got an new ability, which gives him an edge. But he is still weaker power wise.

But yes it could work, 10 x or 8x.

[ssbgoku]

Sorry but ss3 vegetto doesn't exist

Well no as it's never needed to. If they wanted to they could easily become SSJ3 Vegito. They're about to become SSJB Vegito.

Super Saiyan 3 Vegito is Goku fusing with Vegeta and Goku said that that would not be enough.

Of course they could but claiming goku would know how ss3 vegetto would be strong is bullshiting. Goku and vegeta were even suprised how strong vegetto was as ss in buu arc. Also even then ss vegetto buu arc is at least above enraged ss2 vegeta for whom beerus needed to use 10% to one shot. If I put enraged ss2 vegeta at the lowest so could be 2%. This vegeta was only stated to suprass ss3 goku nothing more then ss vegetto is at least 4% and with ss3 it would make him 32%, while for bog movie it could be ok, that for anime it doesn't work due to kkx10 bullshit over ssb, which make ssg less then 10% beerus so ss3 vegetto > ssg goku bog arc anime, and that was buu arc ss3 vegetto, bog arc would be slightly higher possibly 36%. There are only two ways about it:

1) Go by movie and then ssg goku is 6 and beerus is 10 so ssb is close to beerus(especially as for trunks arc)
2) Go by anime and then ssg goku is below 10% beerus and ss3 vegetto would be above him using simply number and math, unless you call kk over ssb as just Toei being Toei...

[Bullza]

I don't see any point in that line being written into the movie if we weren't supposed to believed that Super Saiyan God > Fusion.

Maybe Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta was stronger than Super Vegito. He was also much stronger than Mystic Gohan after all who was taken out effortlessly.

[ssbgoku]

I don't see any point in that line being written into the movie if we weren't supposed to believed that Super Saiyan God > Fusion.

Maybe Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta was stronger than Super Vegito. He was also much stronger than Mystic Gohan after all who was taken out effortlessly.

Well ssg was still above fusion from z, I mean ss vegetto.

About vegeta, well you need to know that ss3 goku was stated the strongest before enraged ss2 vegeta occurence, so unless Ultimate gohan got weaker from buu arc to bog then being above ultimate gohan mean jack shit. Well we know he wasn't for two reasons:

1) Roshi and everyone was there and stated that vegeta finally suprassed goku, albeit nothing like "wow, he got much stronger then goku"
2) Dende was there and didn't add anything to that statement of Roshi, and he witnessed ss vegetto power.
3) Kaioshin along Elder Kaioshin watching earth didn't comment anything about vegeta suprassing ss vegetto. Well not even false ss goku combined ki ritual was commented to reach ss vegetto.
4) Goku who was later revealed to be present while vegeta went on rampage only congratulated vegeta about suprassing him but didn't note or commented anything about vegeta suprassing their power as fusion.

[MagmonKai]

I'm not sure we should be comparing the god level powers to the normal power levels...they should be separate like:

Normal Ki
Goku Base 10
Vegeta Base 9
SSJ Goku 500
etc...

God Ki
Future Zamasu 2
SSG Goku 6
SSGSS Goku 8
SSGSS Vegeta 8.5
SSR Black 9
Beerus 10
MergedZamasu 11
Whis 15
Grand Priest 20

I threw out random numbers because I just want to illustrate rankings, not necessarily power levels. I don't think the two ki signatures are compatible and I don't think Toriyama meant them to be. Like Whis said not every battle is decided on battle strength.

[ekrolo2]

Here's the power chart to end all power charts:

Omni King
His bodyguards
His doorman
Whis
Beerus
Merged Zamasu
BlueKKX10 Goku
Lol Rageta
Blue Vegeta
Blue Goku
Lol Rageta Jr. Trunks

[Doctor.]

Here's the power chart to end all power charts:

Omni King
His bodyguards
His doorman
Whis
Beerus
Merged Zamasu
BlueKKX10 Goku
Lol Rageta
Blue Vegeta
Blue Goku
Lol Rageta Jr. Trunks

Now where the fuck is Sorbet's ring

[ekrolo2]

Here's the power chart to end all power charts:

Omni King
His bodyguards
His doorman
Whis
Beerus
Merged Zamasu
BlueKKX10 Goku
Lol Rageta
Blue Vegeta
Blue Goku
Lol Rageta Jr. Trunks

Now where the fuck is Sorbet's ring

Chilling with Tori-bot on a level far beyond anyone on this list

[ssbgoku]

That mine:

Omni King
High Priest
Omni King bodyguards
Whis/Vados/Other angels
Merged Zamasu
ssb vegetto(if make appearance)
Beerus
Black goku/Vegeta
Goku
Future Zamasu
Trunks

[ekrolo2]

No Rageta? Tsk tsk. We all know he's leagues above everyone else from the Earth cast. Beerus had to use a whole 10% on him!

[ssbgoku]

No Rageta? Tsk tsk. We all know he's leagues above everyone else from the Earth cast. Beerus had to use a whole 10% on him!

Means jack shit, as almsot everything beerus has done is just done for entertainment and sales, he is shown as constant lier unless it get serious then he is just doing his job that only when I consider his statements and actions leggit. Also buu arc ss vegetto > enraged ss2 vegeta.

Also this 10% is what makes it being retconned or KK over ssb being bullshit, just Toei overhyping stuff as always.