Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

If we're doing this again then I'm gonna update mine. This is how I see it as of the latest episode.

Zeno Tier

Zeno

God Tier

Grand Priest
Whis/Vados
Beerus
Champa
Merged Zamasu

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta
Super Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (could be lower but surely in this tier)
Base Black
Zamasu
Golden Frieza
Hit (Without Timeskip)

Super Saiyan Tier

Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost

Base Tier

Trunks
Goku/Vegeta/Cabba
Final Form Frieza
Assault Frost

DBZ Tier

Super Vegito
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
First Form Frost
First Form Frieza
Super Saiyan Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

Go Home tier

Majin Buu
Gohan/Piccolo
Tagoma

[Bullza]

Double post. The summary for Episode 66 mentions Goku breaks Zamasu's wall of light with a life risking attack.

I don't know of any attacks that Goku has like that so I'm wondering....could we be seeing the return of Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken? Could he maybe be ramping it up to Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20?

It's life risking, we know that much and it's believable that it would pack enough power to destroy something. I'd hope it was that just to see it return and because it could show how strong Zamasu is if all Goku is able to do in such a state is break light barrier.

[ssbgoku]

If we're doing this again then I'm gonna update mine. This is how I see it as of the latest episode.

Zeno Tier

Zeno

God Tier

Grand Priest
Whis/Vados
Beerus
Champa
Merged Zamasu

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta
Super Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (could be lower but surely in this tier)
Base Black
Zamasu
Golden Frieza
Hit (Without Timeskip)

Super Saiyan Tier

Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost

Base Tier

Trunks
Goku/Vegeta/Cabba
Final Form Frieza
Assault Frost

DBZ Tier

Super Vegito
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
First Form Frost
First Form Frieza
Super Saiyan Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

Go Home tier

Majin Buu
Gohan/Piccolo
Tagoma

Cool that mine with some changes to yours:

Zeno Tier

Zeno

God Tier

Grand Priest
Whis/Vados
Merged Zamasu
Beerus
Champa

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

Super Saiyan Rose Black / Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Super Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (could be lower but surely in this tier)
Base Black
Zamasu
Golden Frieza
Hit (Without Timeskip)

Super Saiyan Tier

Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Vegetto(buu arc)
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost

DBZ Tier

Goku/Vegeta/Cabba
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
Final Form Freeza
Assault Frost
First Form Frost
First Form Frieza
Super Saiyan Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

Go Home tier

Majin Buu
Gohan/Piccolo
Tagoma

Double post. The summary for Episode 66 mentions Goku breaks Zamasu's wall of light with a life risking attack.

I don't know of any attacks that Goku has like that so I'm wondering....could we be seeing the return of Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken? Could he maybe be ramping it up to Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20?

It's life risking, we know that much and it's believable that it would pack enough power to destroy something. I'd hope it was that just to see it return and because it could show how strong Zamasu is if all Goku is able to do in such a state is break light barrier.

Really ?, where I can find such summary and read them ?.

No, please god no... Let's leave kaioken stacked over ssb(other god forms) in dust, as it never happened. I am sure Toriyama would love us to follow this way, unless Toei screws it again for entertainment, not caring or just sales. Well could be combined all of them.

[Helios518]

No, please god no... Let's leave kaioken stacked over ssb(other god forms) in dust, as it never happened. I am sure Toriyama would love us to follow this way, unless Toei screws it again for entertainment, not caring or just sales. Well could be combined all of them.

It's not your say (or any fan's) to decide what Toriyama would want especially considering he made his drafts vague so Toei and Toyotaro could have their own take on the material.

[ekrolo2]

It's not your say (or any fan's) to decide what Toriyama would want especially considering he made his drafts vague so Toei and Toyotaro could have their own take on the material.

*have their own take on the material

But personally, I'll believe KK still exists in Super when it actually comes back, the fact they've entirely skirted around the issue and act as though Goku's Blue form is the highest he can get power wise leads me to think KK is gonna fall back into the dust bin.

[ssbgoku]

It's not your say (or any fan's) to decide what Toriyama would want especially considering he made his drafts vague so Toei and Toyotaro could have their own take on the material.

*have their own take on the material

But personally, I'll believe KK still exists in Super when it actually comes back, the fact they've entirely skirted around the issue and act as though Goku's Blue form is the highest he can get power wise leads me to think KK is gonna fall back into the dust bin.

Yeah, that as I think but I hope it will turn out to be Toei's move as it was break in power comparision and not just that. The moment they went with enraged ssb goku over trying kk was moment when I believed they know kk wouldn';t be brought back but just assumption.

[Bullza]

Really ?, where I can find such summary and read them ?

I just saw it in Geekdoms recent video where he had the translated summaries from Herms up on the screen.

No, please god no... Let's leave kaioken stacked over ssb(other god forms) in dust, as it never happened.

Well it did happen. They also explained why it wasn't likely to be used again anytime soon or has been used up till now.

But as the summary says Goku performs a life risking attack and that is the only life risking attack that he has ever done. So he's either going to come out with Kaioken again which would likely make sense considering how none of them can even get near to him otherwise or he's going to come out with something new.

It's the perfect opportunity for him to use Kaioken. Far more so than against Hit anyway.

[Helios518]

Here's the summary Bullza is talking about. https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/793355776932712448

[ZombieVito]

If we're doing this again then I'm gonna update mine. This is how I see it as of the latest episode.

Zeno Tier

Zeno

God Tier

Grand Priest
Whis/Vados
Beerus
Champa
Merged Zamasu

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta
Super Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (could be lower but surely in this tier)
Base Black
Zamasu
Golden Frieza
Hit (Without Timeskip)

Super Saiyan Tier

Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost

Base Tier

Trunks
Goku/Vegeta/Cabba
Final Form Frieza
Assault Frost

DBZ Tier

Super Vegito
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
First Form Frost
First Form Frieza
Super Saiyan Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

Go Home tier

Majin Buu
Gohan/Piccolo
Tagoma

Why do you have Super Trunks under Goku? Goku on par with Vegeta? Black over Vegeta?

[Bullza]

Why do you have Super Trunks under Goku? Goku on par with Vegeta? Black over Vegeta?

I'm just going to assume that Goku and Vegeta are on par as they have been for the most part ever since the Resurrection F saga. It's not like they ever made a deal of Vegeta surpassing Goku or anything and Goku was alright with fighting Black if he had to.

Goku after getting angry = Vegeta after training for six months combined with him also being angry.

Goku was defeated by Black for the same reason why Vegeta was first defeated by Black, he was caught off guard by Blacks new weapon and was taken down.

As for Black being stronger than them, he powered up once again when he obtained the scythe. Did it put him above Vegeta? Maybe, maybe not. They keep passing one another up so again I'm just assuming he took back the edge but he might not have.

[Marlowe89]

If everyone's posting their own tier lists and interpretations, I might as well follow suit. This is as of the current episode, not counting Hit and Kaioken x 10 Super Saiyan Blue Goku since I don't think the anime has done a particularly good job of establishing a definitive standing for those two characters.


Elder God Tier
Zeno

Higher God Tier
Grand Priest
Vados | Whis
Beerus | Champa | Merged Zamasu (?)

God Tier
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (rage boost)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku (rage boost) | "Super" Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Future Zamasu | Golden Frieza
Goku Black | Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks (rage boost)
Super Saiyan God Goku | "Saiyan Beyond God" Goku | "Saiyan Beyond God" Vegeta

Higher Mortal Tier
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (rage boost)
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Goku | Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta | Present Zamasu
Super Saiyan Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku | Super Saiyan Vegeta | Super Saiyan Cabba | Magetta
Final Form Frost
Future Trunks
Goku | Vegeta | Cabba
First Form Frost

[ekrolo2]

I continue to see and be disappointed by the utter disrespect towards Rageta and the disgusting lack of Sorbet's ring here.

[MagmonKai]

If everyone's posting their own tier lists and interpretations, I might as well follow suit. This is as of the current episode, not counting Hit and Kaioken x 10 Super Saiyan Blue Goku since I don't think the anime has done a particularly good job of establishing a definitive standing for those two characters.


Elder God Tier
Zeno

Higher God Tier
Grand Priest
Vados | Whis
Beerus | Champa | Merged Zamasu (?)

God Tier
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (rage boost)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku (rage boost) | "Super" Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Future Zamasu | Golden Frieza
Goku Black | Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks (rage boost)
Super Saiyan God Goku | "Saiyan Beyond God" Goku | "Saiyan Beyond God" Vegeta

Higher Mortal Tier
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (rage boost)
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Goku | Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta | Present Zamasu
Super Saiyan Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku | Super Saiyan Vegeta | Super Saiyan Cabba | Magetta
Final Form Frost
Future Trunks
Goku | Vegeta | Cabba
First Form Frost

I don't know why people put "Super" Trunks so high. He really doesn't do much. All he can do is really hold off Black for like 2 seconds and get in a few sucker punches. We all know Black has been toying with him ever since his introduction. I refuse to believe trunks is on the GOD tier...higher mortal tier for sure, but God Tier? Really?? A requirement to be on GOD tier means you have to fully be able to access god ki, clearly Trunks can't do that. He should be bumped down.

[Helios518]

SSJB Vegeta got a rage boost?

[HeroR]

If everyone's posting their own tier lists and interpretations, I might as well follow suit. This is as of the current episode, not counting Hit and Kaioken x 10 Super Saiyan Blue Goku since I don't think the anime has done a particularly good job of establishing a definitive standing for those two characters.


Elder God Tier
Zeno

Higher God Tier
Grand Priest
Vados | Whis
Beerus | Champa | Merged Zamasu (?)

God Tier
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (rage boost)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku (rage boost) | "Super" Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Blue Goku | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Future Zamasu | Golden Frieza
Goku Black | Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks (rage boost)
Super Saiyan God Goku | "Saiyan Beyond God" Goku | "Saiyan Beyond God" Vegeta

Higher Mortal Tier
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (rage boost)
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks
Super Saiyan 2 Goku | Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta | Present Zamasu
Super Saiyan Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku | Super Saiyan Vegeta | Super Saiyan Cabba | Magetta
Final Form Frost
Future Trunks
Goku | Vegeta | Cabba
First Form Frost

I don't know why people put "Super" Trunks so high. He really doesn't do much. All he can do is really hold off Black for like 2 seconds and get in a few sucker punches. We all know Black has been toying with him ever since his introduction. I refuse to believe trunks is on the GOD tier...higher mortal tier for sure, but God Tier? Really?? A requirement to be on GOD tier means you have to fully be able to access god ki, clearly Trunks can't do that. He should be bumped down.

There is no such thing as 'God Tier'. The Kais are gods and they were surpassed by the main characters in the Buu Saga.

[Marlowe89]

I don't know why people put "Super" Trunks so high. He really doesn't do much. All he can do is really hold off Black for like 2 seconds and get in a few sucker punches. We all know Black has been toying with him ever since his introduction. I refuse to believe trunks is on the GOD tier...higher mortal tier for sure, but God Tier? Really?? A requirement to be on GOD tier means you have to fully be able to access god ki, clearly Trunks can't do that. He should be bumped down.

It's a bit ambiguous. Black does tend to toy with his opponents a lot and future Zamasu is generally an awful fighter despite his improved strength because he takes his immortality too often for granted, but Super Trunks' feats are too impressive to ignore at this point. The "godly" appearance of his aura, the dramatic tone of the form's introduction scene and his performance in general leads me to believe Super Trunks at the very least is deserving of that scale.

That said, I can agree that he certainly wasn't within that tier before returning to the future for reasons I've already pointed out.

[MagmonKai]

I don't know why people put "Super" Trunks so high. He really doesn't do much. All he can do is really hold off Black for like 2 seconds and get in a few sucker punches. We all know Black has been toying with him ever since his introduction. I refuse to believe trunks is on the GOD tier...higher mortal tier for sure, but God Tier? Really?? A requirement to be on GOD tier means you have to fully be able to access god ki, clearly Trunks can't do that. He should be bumped down.

It's a bit ambiguous. Black does tend to toy with his opponents a lot and future Zamasu is generally an awful fighter because he takes his immortality too often for granted, but Super Trunks' feats are too impressive to ignore at this point. The "godly" appearance of his aura, the dramatic tone of the form's introduction scene and his performance in general leads me to believe Super Trunks at the very least is deserving of that scale.

That said, I can agree that he certainly wasn't on that tier before returning to the future for reasons I've already pointed out.

I see your point. I wish they made it clearer in the anime, I can't wait to see how the Manga portrays these events.

[ZombieVito]

How many confirmed power ups did Black get?

[DBZ Macky]

How many confirmed power ups did Black get?

Would you include the ones he got before what we've seen in Super?
He kills Goku in Zamasu's body easily, while being in Base himself. And we see that Zamasu is a bit inferior to SSJ2 Goku, but it doesn't seem like it was by 100x.
So either 2 base theory comfirmed, OR Black retained Zamasu's power, but in Goku's body.

So Initial Black ~< SSJ2
Black (First battle against Trunks) > SSJ2 Trunks
Black (Final battle against Trunks) > SSJ3 Goku
Then Black powers up against Goku even when he was holding back.
Black then powers up after getting beaten up by Vegeta.

These are all the Pre-Rose power ups for Black.

[Bullza]

It's getting hard to remember.

1. Was there one against Trunks before he went to the future? I can't remember that one.

2. He powered up during his fight against Goku in the present and then again after the fight.

3. He powered up after receiving Vegeta's beatdown prior to him turning Rose.

4. He powered up again after receiving Goku's beatdown prior to him obtaining the sword.

5. And it looks like he powered up once again either from Vegeta's beatdown or him hurting himself or both prior to him obtaining the scythe.