Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Nejishiki]

If GT didn't exist, how likely is it they would've called SSGod Super Saiyan 4 instead?

I don't find it likely. Nakatsuru expressed difficulty in portraying strength beyond the previous transformations. He planned to dial it back and fuse Super Saiyan with Oozaru from the start, it seems. With how he chose black and red to keep the final design dynamic, discarding the original gold, it's likely Super Saiyan 4 was a title leftover for the sake of convenience. Toriyama, by comparison, was resistant to making the transformations flashier. He wanted to keep Goku unchanged, perhaps akin to Gohan, but settled on ultimately altering the hair color and eyes. I would have liked building towards godly magic affecting Saiyan growth, but the Super Saiyan God story was great enough on its own. The main point I'm driving is that Toriyama wouldn't plan to make a "Super Saiyan 4". I think its title survives in Dragon Ball GT due to first drafts persisting in the script.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Jumping off of that, I saw another Kanzenshuuer write something a while back that I totally agree with. The whole naming scheme for the God forms has gotten convoluted ("Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan") or lame ("Super Saiyan Blue"), and so to prevent all of that and make it clearer to people what the transformations really entail, they should have changed "Super Saiyan God" to just "Saiyan God," and "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" to just..."Super Saiyan God."

[Yedis]

I think the reason Super didn't just start at the EOZ is because the character designs at the EOZ are not really as marketable.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I think the reason Super didn't just start at the EOZ is because the character designs at the EOZ are not really as marketable.

Tadayoshi Yamamuro created new designs for the movies and DBS, he could have done the same no matter when it took place.

[Soppa Saia People]

I think the reason Super didn't just start at the EOZ is because the character designs at the EOZ are not really as marketable.

Which is a shame. I like all of the EOZ, sans Videl's weird ass haircut and Gohan's glasses.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I already made this thread a while back but it still surprises me why Vegeta didn't help Nappa finish off the remaining fighters when he sensed that Goku was coming. This was back when Vegeta was written more pragmatically.

[ekrolo2]

I already made this thread a while back but it still surprises me why Vegeta didn't help Nappa finish off the remaining fighters when he sensed that Goku was coming. This was back when Vegeta was written more pragmatically.

He was obviously busy reading Nappa's latest fashion mag.

[Sailor Haumea]

Speaking of the Saiyans, do you think their victims besides the Z-Fighters were ever revived? Did the Arlians ever get revived? What about all the people who were killed in East City? If they stayed dead, that's a dick move on the Z-Fighters' part.

[8000 Saiyan]

Speaking of the Saiyans, do you think their victims besides the Z-Fighters were ever revived? Did the Arlians ever get revived? What about all the people who were killed in East City? If they stayed dead, that's a dick move on the Z-Fighters' part.

They probably were revived.

[Sailor Haumea]

Speaking of the Saiyans, do you think their victims besides the Z-Fighters were ever revived? Did the Arlians ever get revived? What about all the people who were killed in East City? If they stayed dead, that's a dick move on the Z-Fighters' part.

They probably were revived.

Offscreen?

Arlia is gone...

[Cipher]

Speaking of the Saiyans, do you think their victims besides the Z-Fighters were ever revived? Did the Arlians ever get revived? What about all the people who were killed in East City? If they stayed dead, that's a dick move on the Z-Fighters' part.

They probably were revived.

Their other victims on Earth weren't even revived, unless they counted as members of Freeza's army at that point.

[Sailor Haumea]

Speaking of the Saiyans, do you think their victims besides the Z-Fighters were ever revived? Did the Arlians ever get revived? What about all the people who were killed in East City? If they stayed dead, that's a dick move on the Z-Fighters' part.

They probably were revived.

Their other victims on Earth weren't even revived, unless they counted as members of Freeza's army at that point.

Yamcha was killed by a Saibaman (who worked for the Saiyans, not Frieza). Tien and Chiaotzu technically killed themselves.

None of the three were killed by Frieza or his men.

[Cipher]

Yamcha was killed by a Saibaman (who worked for the Saiyans, not Frieza). Tien and Chiaotzu technically killed themselves.

None of the three were killed by Frieza or his men.

Yeah; I'm saying we never find out whether the citizens of the city Nappa destroys are revived. It would depend on whether they're counted as victim's of Freeza's army for the purposes of Mr. Popo's wish to Shen-Long at the end of the Namek arc. If not, nothing else covers them.

[nickzambuto]

I already made this thread a while back but it still surprises me why Vegeta didn't help Nappa finish off the remaining fighters when he sensed that Goku was coming. This was back when Vegeta was written more pragmatically.

He wasn't afraid of Goku. He was curious and somewhat in shock that Kakarotto had become so strong, but since he knew that he himself was still a lot stronger than 8,000, he chose to just let events play out. He's pragmatic and serious when the situation clearly calls for it (warning Nappa not to tank the Kienzan, stealth against Freeza) but the situation with Kakarotto was just too curious to pass up.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I already made this thread a while back but it still surprises me why Vegeta didn't help Nappa finish off the remaining fighters when he sensed that Goku was coming. This was back when Vegeta was written more pragmatically.

He wasn't afraid of Goku. He was curious and somewhat in shock that Kakarotto had become so strong, but since he knew that he himself was still a lot stronger than 8,000, he chose to just let events play out. He's pragmatic and serious when the situation clearly calls for it (warning Nappa not to tank the Kienzan, stealth against Freeza) but the situation with Kakarotto was just too curious to pass up.

He pointed out that Goku's strength, added to that of Kuririn, Piccolo, and Gohan, would be something that might get in the way. Not being afraid of Goku plays no part in Vegeta telling Nappa to quit screwing around and finish them off.

[nickzambuto]

I already made this thread a while back but it still surprises me why Vegeta didn't help Nappa finish off the remaining fighters when he sensed that Goku was coming. This was back when Vegeta was written more pragmatically.

He wasn't afraid of Goku. He was curious and somewhat in shock that Kakarotto had become so strong, but since he knew that he himself was still a lot stronger than 8,000, he chose to just let events play out. He's pragmatic and serious when the situation clearly calls for it (warning Nappa not to tank the Kienzan, stealth against Freeza) but the situation with Kakarotto was just too curious to pass up.

He pointed out that Goku's strength, added to that of Kuririn, Piccolo, and Gohan, would be something that might get in the way. Not being afraid of Goku plays no part in Vegeta telling Nappa to quit screwing around and finish them off.

I don't recall this line, but it's more likely that Vegeta was referring to it being a problem for Nappa rather than himself, plus Piccolo was dead by the time Goku actually showed up, so the danger he previously expressed concern over was no longer a problem.

[Nejishiki]

Vegeta: "!!"
Nappa: "--Vegeta! Are they telling the truth?!"
Nappa: "I hope they are... Heh heh heh...!!
Vegeta: "I don't know if it's really Kakarotto..."
Vegeta: "But he'll be here in four minutes..."
Vegeta: "With a battle power... of 5000!!"
Nappa: "......5000.....?!"
Nappa: "Th... That's impossible...!"
Nappa: "I-it has to be a mistake..."
Vegeta: "It may be. These fools seem able to vary their power. Meaning... 5000 could just be for starters..."
Piccolo: "Heh... I do believe your partner's actually worried...!!"
Vegeta: "Nappa!! Kill those two now!!!"
Vegeta: "Their help could actually make Kakarotto a challenge..."
Vegeta: "...But their corpses might well shake him up!!"

It's important to note that Vegeta is saving Goku for himself. He wants to punish him for being a "traitor" to Saiyans. It's referenced earlier in the battle when he expresses how much he wants Goku to break when he arrives. He's making sure that part of his game is fulfilled while doubling remaining cautious of his initial power. It isn't just for Nappa. The idea is to rattle his confidence before a punch is thrown.

The events afterward are quick and to the point. Gohan attacks, Nappa is angered, Piccolo is murdered, and Gohan fires one more blast before Nappa attempts to kill him next. That's when Goku arrives to the scene. Vegeta's inaction, in context, was justified. Nappa was doing his job. Kuririn was injured earlier from the shockwave of Nappa's blast. There was nothing to oppose him and the humans were dying off in a timely manner.

[ekrolo2]

So, who goofed here? Viz or Toriyama?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

So, who goofed here? Viz or Toriyama?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

What's the issue?

[Kamiccolo9]

So, who goofed here? Viz or Toriyama?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

What's the issue?

Vegeta using "Goku."