"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Lujin_16]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDIUzbEcbJA

Goodbye Black Goku

[Lionel]

The recommendation of consolidating power took place before the Mafuba was even introduced. In Black's own words when Zamasu hinted around at the prospect of him gaining immortality...

"It's not enough that I just get an immortal body. I'll get a lot more stronger. This power with unlimited potential is necessary for our plan."

Here is Zamasu's rebuttal which all but confirms the essentiality of Black's power.

"The Zero-Humanity Plan. What an irony, needing the power of a human to achieve the Zero-Humanity Plan."

If Zamasu felt his immortality was impervious to any kind of counter attempt made at overcoming it then he wouldn't require the power of another being. He could strut on directly into Zeno's palace and overwhelm him and his guards via attritional warfare. Beerus' comment in episode 62 also directly alludes to Zamasu's immortality not being perfect, though you could attribute this to half-hearted bravado on his part.

"I could easily destroy him if I went to the future..."

[Lord Frieza]

The recommendation of consolidating power took place before the Mafuba was even introduced. In Black's own words when Zamasu hinted around at the prospect of him gaining immortality...

"It's not enough that I just get an immortal body. I'll get a lot more stronger. This power with unlimited potential is necessary for our plan."

Here is Zamasu's rebuttal which all but confirms the essentiality of Black's power.

"The Zero-Humanity Plan. What an irony, needing the power of a human to achieve the Zero-Humanity Plan."

If Zamasu felt his immortality was impervious to any kind of counter attempt made at overcoming it then he wouldn't require the power of another being. He could strut on directly into Zeno's palace and overwhelm him and his guards via attritional warfare. Beerus' comment in episode 62 also directly alludes to Zamasu's immortality not being perfect, though you could attribute this to half-hearted bravado on his part.

"I could easily destroy him if I went to the future..."

First sorry for miss understanding.

But thats simply means Black is aware that immortality is not enough to win every battle and they could be subdued and imprisoned by the remaining gods. It has nothing to do with a lack of faith in the aspect of immortality itself.

Even after Vegeta's power up, Black and Zamasu never lost their confidence in victory, they have never considered at any point during this arc that any mortal, Goku, Vegeta or Trunks included, were a threat. The only beings Black has shown any visible concern about was Beerus and the other gods of destruction. And its possible they are aware of Zeno as well.

It was only being exposed to complete helplessness under the mafuba that they realized that our heroes/mortals where a true theat and they could actually loose.

[MagmonKai]

Being Immortal doesn't make you omnipotent though. If we could make a mosquito immortal all she could ever do is suck our blood in very tiny amounts, she wouldn't affect our lives too much. We would trap her in a container and she could live there forever. Same with Zamasu, he couldn't just waltz into Zeno's chamber and strut his stuff. He'd get thrown into some abyss like he's going to by the end of this arc. He needed the power of Black to do anything meaningful.

[Lord Frieza]

Being Immortal doesn't make you omnipotent though. If we could make a mosquito immortal all she could ever do is suck our blood in very tiny amounts, she wouldn't affect our lives too much. We would trap her in a container and she could live there forever. Same with Zamasu, he couldn't just waltz into Zeno's chamber and strut his stuff. He'd get thrown into some abyss like he's going to by the end of this arc. He needed the power of Black to do anything meaningful.

Thats my point they are not afraid of Zamasu dyeing but they know they could still be imprisoned so they need Black's power.

They likely thought that would be enough and that they only had to fear that was left of the gods. But then our heroes pull out the mafuba and thrown all their preconceptions out the window. They now know that as they are they are not enough and needed to be more to achieve victory, so they fused.

[HeroR]

The recommendation of consolidating power took place before the Mafuba was even introduced. In Black's own words when Zamasu hinted around at the prospect of him gaining immortality...

"It's not enough that I just get an immortal body. I'll get a lot more stronger. This power with unlimited potential is necessary for our plan."

Here is Zamasu's rebuttal which all but confirms the essentiality of Black's power.

"The Zero-Humanity Plan. What an irony, needing the power of a human to achieve the Zero-Humanity Plan."

If Zamasu felt his immortality was impervious to any kind of counter attempt made at overcoming it then he wouldn't require the power of another being. He could strut on directly into Zeno's palace and overwhelm him and his guards via attritional warfare. Beerus' comment in episode 62 also directly alludes to Zamasu's immortality not being perfect, though you could attribute this to half-hearted bravado on his part.

"I could easily destroy him if I went to the future..."

First sorry for miss understanding.

But thats simply means Black is aware that immortality is not enough to win every battle and they could be subdued and imprisoned by the remaining gods. It has nothing to do with a lack of faith in the aspect of immortality itself.

Even after Vegeta's power up, Black and Zamasu never lost their confidence in victory, they have never considered at any point during this arc that any mortal, Goku, Vegeta or Trunks included, were a threat. The only beings Black has shown any visible concern about was Beerus and the other gods of destruction. And its possible they are aware of Zeno as well.

It was only being exposed to complete helplessness under the mafuba that they realized that our heroes/mortals where a true theat and they could actually loose.

I don't think Black was that worried about Beerus. When he saw Beerus in the past, his reaction was basically, 'huh, it's Beerus'.

Also, Black is power obsessed. He could have killed Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks several times, but kept dragging things out to make himself stronger. Even in the end, he wanted Future Zamasu to kill Trunks and the others to make Goku and Vegeta stronger from their anger, basically pulling a Cell. And, I think he saw the dangers of immorality given how Future Zamasu kept dropping his guard and reduced himself to a meat shield despite his great talent.

[New_Guy]

I always kind of wanted the key to winning this battle to be Goku using the original (red) Super Saiyan God form. Like idk maybe using Super Saiyan blue hasn't been getting them anywhere for a reason? Maybe Super Saiyan God is beneficial in winning because it's god Ki in it's purest form. Instead of God Ki infused with super saiyan. Maybe there's a real reason behind Whis having had Goku and Vegeta only train in base. Of course that would probably mean Goku getting the win (since Vegeta only has blue) but I think it would be cool to see the form again and come out with a win.

[Lord Frieza]

The recommendation of consolidating power took place before the Mafuba was even introduced. In Black's own words when Zamasu hinted around at the prospect of him gaining immortality...

"It's not enough that I just get an immortal body. I'll get a lot more stronger. This power with unlimited potential is necessary for our plan."

Here is Zamasu's rebuttal which all but confirms the essentiality of Black's power.

"The Zero-Humanity Plan. What an irony, needing the power of a human to achieve the Zero-Humanity Plan."

If Zamasu felt his immortality was impervious to any kind of counter attempt made at overcoming it then he wouldn't require the power of another being. He could strut on directly into Zeno's palace and overwhelm him and his guards via attritional warfare. Beerus' comment in episode 62 also directly alludes to Zamasu's immortality not being perfect, though you could attribute this to half-hearted bravado on his part.

"I could easily destroy him if I went to the future..."

First sorry for miss understanding.

But thats simply means Black is aware that immortality is not enough to win every battle and they could be subdued and imprisoned by the remaining gods. It has nothing to do with a lack of faith in the aspect of immortality itself.

Even after Vegeta's power up, Black and Zamasu never lost their confidence in victory, they have never considered at any point during this arc that any mortal, Goku, Vegeta or Trunks included, were a threat. The only beings Black has shown any visible concern about was Beerus and the other gods of destruction. And its possible they are aware of Zeno as well.

It was only being exposed to complete helplessness under the mafuba that they realized that our heroes/mortals where a true theat and they could actually loose.

I don't think Black was that worried about Beerus. When he saw Beerus in the past, his reaction was basically, 'huh, it's Beerus'.

Well all I can say is I interpited it differently, Black's entire expression became much more serious as soon as he laid eyes on Beerus.

[Lionel]

No known prison exists that could shackle the likes of Zamasu; moreover, the mosquito in this situation happens to be capable of teleporting across universes and has the power to oppose two beings with universally devastating power. Any such attempts to restrain him would be met with a hasty escape from whatever facility they attempted to hold him in.

If this logic were applicable then why stop Trunks from depleting all of his power in what looks like a self-sacrificial gesture? The long sought after prey would finally be dead, ironically by his own hands in a futile attempt to overcome something that's impossible to defeat. And regarding Vegeta -- his power hasn't ascended to the point where it's unassailable. They're aware of their ever increasing might with a ceaseless amount of potential, according to Black. Working together, especially, allows them to overcome him with not too much difficulty.

This is Black's reaction when noticing Beerus.



If you ask me, his features seem taut and narrowed with weariness being the clear underlying sentiment.

[alakazam^]

Since Kaiouken wasn't a Toriyama idea you can be sure that anytime it appears it won't amount to anything. The resolution will be in Toriyama's plot so anything that we know didn't came from him in the past won't be relevant now.

[HeroR]

Since Kaiouken wasn't a Toriyama idea you can be sure that anytime it appears it won't amount to anything. The resolution will be in Toriyama's plot so anything that we know didn't came from him in the past won't be relevant now.

That is kind of loaded, especially since it depends how vague Toriyama's note are, which seems to be pretty vague. As far as we know, the outline says, 'Goku does something awesome, Merged Zamasu defeated'.

[alakazam^]

That is kind of loaded, especially since it depends how vague Toriyama's note are, which seems to be pretty vague. As far as we know, the outline says, 'Goku does something awesome, Merged Zamasu defeated'.

Sure, but the end of an arc is something Toriyama will put some thought into so that is practially guaranteed to be more detailed than the rest. And, if he were to use the Kaiouken, he'd need to explain why Goku didn't use it again since, as far as Toriyama is concerned, the last time he used it was on Namek.

[Lord Frieza]

If this logic were applicable then why stop Trunks from depleting all of his power in what looks like a self-sacrificial gesture? The long sought after prey would finally be dead, ironically by his own hands in a futile attempt to overcome something that's impossible to defeat.

I'm pretty much with you on all your other points.

On this the only thing I can think of is Black's sadistic nature and the fact that he especially hates mortals who raids their hands against the gods. Why not let Trunk blow himself up trying to kill an immortal? Because he dared to lay his filthy hands on a god, because he refuses to bow to the will of those who are his betters, because he is worm who dose not deserve martyrdom but to suffer in agony, laying in dirt, bleeding to death knowing that all his efforts were in vain. Because he is mortal scum!

Thats my guess anyway.

Edit: As for why fuse at all, because these guys now know they can loose. They don't know that they need a seal and for the first time their scared and they are not stupid.

Why put themselves in unsesery danger fighting with two people on their level and one who could lock them away and risk failing when they can fuse and ascend beyond any threat they represent and have all their greatness and more in one body.

[Sora Saiyan]

Since Kaiouken wasn't a Toriyama idea you can be sure that anytime it appears it won't amount to anything. The resolution will be in Toriyama's plot so anything that we know didn't came from him in the past won't be relevant now.

I thought about this earlier, and I wondered if Toriyama already planed for Kaioken to be in this arc and Toei, seeing this, used it earlier.

I doubt this is the case, but if it is Kaioken that's used we might have to wait for the manga to clarify.

[vashter]

Re: Rosé Black

I anxiously await UCF figures of him.

Re: greedy?

If it's "greedy" for me to not want Vegetto to show up, doesn't that also make those who do want him "greedy" as well?

That's just looking for negative ways to spin a difference of opinion.

You can't convince others that your opinion is better by saying their opinion is bad. All opinions are opinions. Nobody wins.

I won't be upset if Vegetto shows up, but I'd rather something new be used to defeat Merged Zamasu.

You are the one that leak that pics, where did you get that pics from?

[Nejishiki]

You are the one that leak that pics, where did you get that pics from?

She provided citation in her initial post.

[spoiler]Episode summaries, maybe?

Source: http://itest.2ch.net/shiba/test/read.cg ... 1477810145[/spoiler]

[Pannaliciour]

Since Kaiouken wasn't a Toriyama idea you can be sure that anytime it appears it won't amount to anything. The resolution will be in Toriyama's plot so anything that we know didn't came from him in the past won't be relevant now.

Don't care if it is Akira's idea or not, just let it happen again.

[Marty Kirra]

Since Kaiouken wasn't a Toriyama idea you can be sure that anytime it appears it won't amount to anything. The resolution will be in Toriyama's plot so anything that we know didn't came from him in the past won't be relevant now.

So I've been seeing this stated as if it were fact for quite some time now, and I'm wondering if there's an actual source outside of speculation (i.e. "well it didn't happen in the manga so it must've been Toei's idea!") and such?

[Nejishiki]

It doesn't exist. The absence of Kaioken in one continuity is what fuels the speculation.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

We don't know if he approves changes in the anime like he does Toyo or if anime makes changes anyway (the future Trunks announcement seems to imply not and they just move things or add extra things in but he doesn't specifically mention any flat out changes).

I don't think we can know for sure who was responsible for SSGSSKK yet.