Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

I just noticed, all of my Freeza's turned into Freeza's. Why is that? Not only is it unnecessary, it is also grammatically incorrect. Is there some sort of filter in place?

Edit: C'mon, really? I mean Frieza-s. Frieza and then an s. The plural, not the possessive.

[apex_pretador]

SSJ Vegeta can't be only 150 million, he was said to have surpassed Goku who became considerably stronger than before after the years of training, and even before then he was stronger than Trunks who was stronger than him on Namek.
Vegeta > Goku >> Yardrat Goku > Trunks > Namek Goku => Mecha Frieza > Frieza.

Imperfect Cell Post Absorption can't be that weak either, he was equal in power to 16 who far surpassed Piccolo and 17, and he easily tanked a Light Grenade from Piccolo which had enough power to destroy 17 without even flinching, he then proceeded to effortlessly thrash Piccolo, these feats are not possible with such a small advantage in power.

Well, just like most other guidebook numbers, I disregsard 150 million number for namek SS goku, and base it solely on the battle which lasted over 9 chapters.

After training 3 years, goku and vegeta reach 150 million number.


Imperfect cell (post) is already far above battle worn piccolo, to the point he can tank his strongest attack without any damage.T he gap I have is around vegeta vs cui and bigger than vegeta vs dodoria.

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSJ Vegeta can't be only 150 million, he was said to have surpassed Goku who became considerably stronger than before after the years of training, and even before then he was stronger than Trunks who was stronger than him on Namek.
Vegeta > Goku >> Yardrat Goku > Trunks > Namek Goku => Mecha Frieza > Frieza.

Imperfect Cell Post Absorption can't be that weak either, he was equal in power to 16 who far surpassed Piccolo and 17, and he easily tanked a Light Grenade from Piccolo which had enough power to destroy 17 without even flinching, he then proceeded to effortlessly thrash Piccolo, these feats are not possible with such a small advantage in power.

Well, just like most other guidebook numbers, I disregsard 150 million number for namek SS goku, and base it solely on the battle which lasted over 9 chapters.

After training 3 years, goku and vegeta reach 150 million number.


Imperfect cell (post) is already far above battle worn piccolo, to the point he can tank his strongest attack without any damage.T he gap I have is around vegeta vs cui and bigger than vegeta vs dodoria.

Alright, but how do you get Kid Buu being 10x stronger than Cell? He was slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku's full power, and Goku didn't get that much stronger than Gohan since the Cell Games so at best Buu would be around ~8x stronger than FP Cell.

[apex_pretador]

Alright, but how do you get Kid Buu being 10x stronger than Cell? He was slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku's full power, and Goku didn't get that much stronger than Gohan since the Cell Games so at best Buu would be around ~8x stronger than FP Cell.

Gohan (SS2) = 2, rage boost = 2.2
Vegeta (SS2) = 1.9 (pre M), 2.4 (M)

Goku (SS2) = 2.4 , SS3 (Full power) = 9.6

Kid buu (initial) = 10
Kid buu (full power, revealed when he is serious while pushignagainst spirit bomb) = 12

[TheUltimateNinja]

Alright, but how do you get Kid Buu being 10x stronger than Cell? He was slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku's full power, and Goku didn't get that much stronger than Gohan since the Cell Games so at best Buu would be around ~8x stronger than FP Cell.

Gohan (SS2) = 2, rage boost = 2.2
Vegeta (SS2) = 1.9 (pre M), 2.4 (M)

Goku (SS2) = 2.4 , SS3 (Full power) = 9.6

Kid buu (initial) = 10
Kid buu (full power, revealed when he is serious while pushignagainst spirit bomb) = 12

But Goku says he could have won the fight if he went all out from the start.

[apex_pretador]

Alright, but how do you get Kid Buu being 10x stronger than Cell? He was slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku's full power, and Goku didn't get that much stronger than Gohan since the Cell Games so at best Buu would be around ~8x stronger than FP Cell.

Gohan (SS2) = 2, rage boost = 2.2
Vegeta (SS2) = 1.9 (pre M), 2.4 (M)

Goku (SS2) = 2.4 , SS3 (Full power) = 9.6

Kid buu (initial) = 10
Kid buu (full power, revealed when he is serious while pushignagainst spirit bomb) = 12

But Goku says he could have won the fight if he went all out from the start.

Show me.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Gohan (SS2) = 2, rage boost = 2.2
Vegeta (SS2) = 1.9 (pre M), 2.4 (M)

Goku (SS2) = 2.4 , SS3 (Full power) = 9.6

Kid buu (initial) = 10
Kid buu (full power, revealed when he is serious while pushignagainst spirit bomb) = 12

But Goku says he could have won the fight if he went all out from the start.

Show me.

Upon checking the manga, it seems that that's an anime line. But in the manga he does say he could defeat Buu if he could access his full power, but using SSJ3 in a living body is too draining and he's unable to draw out his maximum ki. It's when Goku tells Vegeta he'll need 1 minute to build up his ki, but then after powering up for a while he says he got close to full power but suddenly his energy started disappearing.

[apex_pretador]

But Goku says he could have won the fight if he went all out from the start.

Show me.

Upon checking the manga, it seems that that's an anime line. But in the manga he does say he could defeat Buu if he could access his full power, but using SSJ3 in a living body is too draining and he's unable to draw out his maximum ki. It's when Goku tells Vegeta he'll need 1 minute to build up his ki, but then after powering up for a while he says he got close to full power but suddenly his energy started disappearing.

More like a supercharging thing lik piccolo did against raditz. To me, it looked like similar situations (goku & his rival fail, one has to take the beatdown while the other charges up), except that goku's power is much closer to kid buu.

[Alruneia]

Sorry for going off topic for a bit:

Edit: C'mon, really? I mean Frieza-s. Frieza and then an s. The plural, not the possessive.

Oh, not this word filter mess again...
Can you really not write "Freeza's" (like you said) like that? Bizarre choice.
...Thank you preview button. No you can't. That is absolutely ridiculous. Can you write Frie.zas though?
...Thank you preview button again. Yes you can.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Until now I thought many a user here possessed a rather poor understanding of the distinction between possessives and plurals, but now I see they may have been getting screwed by the word filter all along.

[ahill1]

I have full power Perfect Cell around 170x stronger than Freeza and Kid Boo around 7x stronger than the former.

[Noah]

My new DBZ power levels (not factoring the Boo saga).

I was enjoying your list till that part:
[spoiler]

Ginyu arc part 2

Kuririn : 24,000

Son Gohan : 26,000


Frreeza arc

Kuririn : 250,000

Son Gohan : 280,000

[/spoiler]

I mean... What? Gohan and Krillin got 10x stronger from a battle to other? I know Vegeta states that their power are steadily increasing, but I don't think it's like that

Also I don't appreciate much that you ignore Daizenshuu numbers

[dragonball0900]

In the case of Gohan, after the zenkai from Frieza 2nd Form, he's possibly to have 200K.

Krillin, though, I don't think it's possible for him to reach that amount in the Namek arc yet. He might be 75K by the end of the battle with Frieza since his power was increasing at the time. But not to the point of more than 200K, remember that he's a human and I don't think in 6 days his potential would reach to that.

[Desassina]

If you make Gohan 980 in the Saiyans' battle, then 0.07 times less is 14'000 upon having his power unlocked. Divide that number by 0.07 again and he arrives at 200'000. You had better think of another multiplier from this point on to make things simple. Gohan's Masenko in his fight against Nappa was, for example, 0.35 times less than his power, arriving at 2'800. So, why not make his attack on Freeza an increase of 0.2 times less than 200'000? I came to that number by dividing 0.07 with 0.35, as if it were the rage boost followed by a Masenko, to put his power at 1'000'000. What do you think? Other instances of Masenko: 28'000 against Recoome (14'000 / (0.07 / 0.14)) may be right; 1'600'000 against third form Freeza (200'000 / (0.07 / 0.56)) seems more likely as well. They're all multiples of 7 in decimal form.

[ahill1]

I mean... What? Gohan and Krillin got 10x stronger from a battle to other? I know Vegeta states that their power are steadily increasing, but I don't think it's like that

Also I don't appreciate much that you ignore Daizenshuu numbers

Well, Kuririn and Gohan were having a bit of trouble against Ginyu-Goku, whose power level was 23,000. While they weren't trying their hardest due to being Goku's body, they don't see to be way stronger than Ginyu in Goku's body.

On the other hand, both Gohan and Kuririn were considered a help against Freeza by Vegeta, who knew Freeza could increase his battle power to more than 530,000. It doesn't make sense if they were much weaker than that, seeing how Kuririn's and Roshi's powers (206 and 139 respectively) were labeled as useless against Raditz, whose power shouldn't past the 1,500.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Dragon Ball:
First Hunt:
Goku: 20
Bear thief: 8
Roshi: 50
Oolong: 10
Goku (Hungry & exhausted): 14
Yamcha: 16
Ox King: 30
Roshi (Max Power): 100
Oozaru Goku: 200
Kuririn: 12

21st Tenkaichi Budokai:
Goku: 80
Goku (Match level): 60-70
Kuririn: 65
Jackie Chun: 80
Orin temple bullies: 16
Bacterian: 15
Yamcha: 50
Nam: 60
Giran: 40
Goku (Exhausted): 50
Oozaru Goku: 500
Jackie Chun (Max power): 160

Red Ribbon Army:
Launch: 3
Blonde Launch: 9
Colonel Silver: 40
Major Metallitron: 70
Murasaki & bros: 35-50
Eighter: 80
Buyon: 90
General White: 15
Kuririn: 60
General Blue: 75
Pirate Robot: 65
Arale: Gag

Commander Red:
Bora: 70
Upa: 10
Goku: 85
Tao Pai Pai: 100
Korin: 120
Goku (Post Korin): 120
Black: 35
Robot suit Black: 110

Uranai Baba Arc:
Goku: 120
Kuririn: 65
Fangs the vampire: 75
Invisible man: 50
Yamcha: 57.5
Bandages: 90
Spike the Devilman: 95
Gohan: 100

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:
Goku: 180
Goku (Match level): 125-160
Kuririn: 125
Yamcha: 110
Chiaotzu: 95
Roshi: 120
Roshi (Buff): 160
Tenshinhan: 175
Tenshinhan (Match level): 130-170
Tsuru Sennin: 100
King Chappa: 80
Man-Wolf: 16
Pamput: 30

Piccolo Daimao:
Tambourine: 140
Kuririn (Exhausted): 100
Goku (Hungry & Exhausted): 120
Mutaito: 115
Cymbal: 110
Piano: 90
Yajirobe: 180
Goku (Full strength): 195
Piccolo Daimao (Old): 220
Goku (Post Daimao): 210
Tenshinhan (Post Mafuba training): 190
Drum: 215
Piccolo Daimao (Young): 275
Goku (Divine Water): 280

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai:
Popo: 320
Kami: 350
Goku: 320
Piccolo Jr.: 320
Kuririn: 280
Yamcha: 220
Tenshinhan: 320
Chiaotzu: 150
Cyborg Tao: 220
King Chappa: 170
Hero (Suppressed): 200
Hero (Serious): 335
Goku (Full power, weights off): 400
Piccolo (Full power, weights off): 390

[apex_pretador]

Dragon Ball:
First Hunt:
Goku: 20
Bear thief: 8
Roshi: 50
Oolong: 10
Goku (Hungry & exhausted): 14
Yamcha: 16
Ox King: 30
Roshi (Max Power): 100
Oozaru Goku: 200
Kuririn: 12

21st Tenkaichi Budokai:
Goku: 80
Goku (Match level): 60-70
Kuririn: 65
Jackie Chun: 80
Orin temple bullies: 10
Bacterian: 15
Yamcha: 50
Nam: 60
Giran: 40
Goku (Exhausted): 50
Oozaru Goku: 500
Jackie Chun (Max power): 160

Red Ribbon Army:
Launch: 3
Blonde Launch: 9
Colonel Silver: 40
Major Metallitron: 70
Murasaki & bros: 35-50
Eighter: 80
Buyon: 90
General White: 15
Kuririn: 60
General Blue: 75
Pirate Robot: 65
Arale: Gag

Commander Red:
Bora: 70
Upa: 55
Goku: 85
Tao Pai Pai: 100
Korin: 120
Goku (Post Korin): 120
Black: 35
Robot suit Black: 110

Uranai Baba Arc:
Goku: 120
Kuririn: 65
Fangs the vampire: 75
Invisible man: 50
Yamcha: 57.5
Bandages: 90
Spike the Devilman: 85
Gohan: 100

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:
Goku: 180
Goku (Match level): 125-160
Kuririn: 125
Yamcha: 110
Chiaotzu: 95
Roshi: 120
Roshi (Buff): 160
Tenshinhan: 175
Tenshinhan (Match level): 130-170
Tsuru Sennin: 100
King Chappa: 100
Man-Wolf: 16
Pamput: 30

Piccolo Daimao:
Tambourine: 140
Kuririn (Exhausted): 100
Goku (Hungry & Exhausted): 120
Mutaito: 115
Cymbal: 110
Piano: 90
Yajirobe: 180
Goku (Full strength): 195
Piccolo Daimao (Old): 220
Goku (Post Daimao): 210
Tenshinhan (Post Mafuba training): 190
Drum: 215
Piccolo Daimao (Young): 275
Goku (Divine Water): 280

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai:
Popo: 320
Kami: 350
Goku: 320
Piccolo Jr.: 320
Kuririn: 280[*]
Yamcha: 220
Tenshinhan: 320
Chiaotzu: 170
Cyborg Tao: 220
King Chappa: 180
Hero (Suppressed): 200
Hero (Serious): 280
Goku (Full power, weights off): 400
Piccolo (Full power, weights off): 390

Seems pretty balanced except the only issues I have:

• Krillin should be significantly weaker than "bullies" were
• Upa was a ssmall kid, who was implied to be nothing special. Him being above BoDB goku is extremely far fetched, let alone 21st TB yamcha
• Oolong was pretty weak for a human, he shouldn't be above a 30 ft tall superpowerful bear.
• Also, Baba's fighters before Bandage / mummy man were pretty underwhelming, nowhere near budokai level.
• Akkuman should be stronger than bandage man.
• King chappa is too high. He's nothing to highly suppressed goku, and krillin stalemated a more powerful / less suppressed goku, before he said "I'll go even more all out"
• Less than half power old piccolo?
• Yamcha followed Tien (piccolo daimao speed) movements, Cyborg tao couldn;t keep up with incredibly suppressed Tien's movements.
• Also, their BoZ levels contradict this list.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Dragon Ball:
First Hunt:
Goku: 20
Bear thief: 8
Roshi: 50
Oolong: 10
Goku (Hungry & exhausted): 14
Yamcha: 16
Ox King: 30
Roshi (Max Power): 100
Oozaru Goku: 200
Kuririn: 12

21st Tenkaichi Budokai:
Goku: 80
Goku (Match level): 60-70
Kuririn: 65
Jackie Chun: 80
Orin temple bullies: 10
Bacterian: 15
Yamcha: 50
Nam: 60
Giran: 40
Goku (Exhausted): 50
Oozaru Goku: 500
Jackie Chun (Max power): 160

Red Ribbon Army:
Launch: 3
Blonde Launch: 9
Colonel Silver: 40
Major Metallitron: 70
Murasaki & bros: 35-50
Eighter: 80
Buyon: 90
General White: 15
Kuririn: 60
General Blue: 75
Pirate Robot: 65
Arale: Gag

Commander Red:
Bora: 70
Upa: 55
Goku: 85
Tao Pai Pai: 100
Korin: 120
Goku (Post Korin): 120
Black: 35
Robot suit Black: 110

Uranai Baba Arc:
Goku: 120
Kuririn: 65
Fangs the vampire: 75
Invisible man: 50
Yamcha: 57.5
Bandages: 90
Spike the Devilman: 85
Gohan: 100

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:
Goku: 180
Goku (Match level): 125-160
Kuririn: 125
Yamcha: 110
Chiaotzu: 95
Roshi: 120
Roshi (Buff): 160
Tenshinhan: 175
Tenshinhan (Match level): 130-170
Tsuru Sennin: 100
King Chappa: 100
Man-Wolf: 16
Pamput: 30

Piccolo Daimao:
Tambourine: 140
Kuririn (Exhausted): 100
Goku (Hungry & Exhausted): 120
Mutaito: 115
Cymbal: 110
Piano: 90
Yajirobe: 180
Goku (Full strength): 195
Piccolo Daimao (Old): 220
Goku (Post Daimao): 210
Tenshinhan (Post Mafuba training): 190
Drum: 215
Piccolo Daimao (Young): 275
Goku (Divine Water): 280

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai:
Popo: 320
Kami: 350
Goku: 320
Piccolo Jr.: 320
Kuririn: 280[*]
Yamcha: 220
Tenshinhan: 320
Chiaotzu: 170
Cyborg Tao: 220
King Chappa: 180
Hero (Suppressed): 200
Hero (Serious): 280
Goku (Full power, weights off): 400
Piccolo (Full power, weights off): 390

Seems pretty balanced except the only issues I have:

• Krillin should be significantly weaker than "bullies" were
• Upa was a ssmall kid, who was implied to be nothing special. Him being above BoDB goku is extremely far fetched, let alone 21st TB yamcha
• Oolong was pretty weak for a human, he shouldn't be above a 30 ft tall superpowerful bear.
• Also, Baba's fighters before Bandage / mummy man were pretty underwhelming, nowhere near budokai level.
• Akkuman should be stronger than bandage man.
• King chappa is too high. He's nothing to highly suppressed goku, and krillin stalemated a more powerful / less suppressed goku, before he said "I'll go even more all out"
• Less than half power old piccolo?
• Yamcha followed Tien (piccolo daimao speed) movements, Cyborg tao couldn;t keep up with incredibly suppressed Tien's movements.
• Also, their BoZ levels contradict this list.

Their BoZ levels are most likely suppressed and I therefore elect to ignore them. Also, Piccolo's half power thing is probably referring to his attack as if he was really using less than half power even Kuririn could take him.

[apex_pretador]

Seems pretty balanced except the only issues I have:

• Krillin should be significantly weaker than "bullies" were
• Upa was a ssmall kid, who was implied to be nothing special. Him being above BoDB goku is extremely far fetched, let alone 21st TB yamcha
• Oolong was pretty weak for a human, he shouldn't be above a 30 ft tall superpowerful bear.
• Also, Baba's fighters before Bandage / mummy man were pretty underwhelming, nowhere near budokai level.
• Akkuman should be stronger than bandage man.
• King chappa is too high. He's nothing to highly suppressed goku, and krillin stalemated a more powerful / less suppressed goku, before he said "I'll go even more all out"
• Less than half power old piccolo?
• Yamcha followed Tien (piccolo daimao speed) movements, Cyborg tao couldn;t keep up with incredibly suppressed Tien's movements.
• Also, their BoZ levels contradict this list.

Their BoZ levels are most likely suppressed and I therefore elect to ignore them. Also, Piccolo's half power thing is probably referring to his attack as if he was really using less than half power even Kuririn could take him.[/quote]
What about other points? Also, Shen (Kami) was said by tenshinhan to be incredibly far above his level at 23rd TB, so let's not act like tenshinhan was superior to him.

Half power doesn't necessarily mean half power level literally. But it still means heavily suppressed.

BoZ levels were not suppressed ones. They didn't even knew to suppress most likely. Krillin said that "Piccolo is 329, he;d slaughter us all" and no indication of suppresed power level is made.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Their BoZ levels are most likely suppressed and I therefore elect to ignore them. Also, Piccolo's half power thing is probably referring to his attack as if he was really using less than half power even Kuririn could take him.

What about other points? Also, Shen (Kami) was said by tenshinhan to be incredibly far above his level at 23rd TB, so let's not act like tenshinhan was superior to him.

Half power doesn't necessarily mean half power level literally. But it still means heavily suppressed.

BoZ levels were not suppressed ones. They didn't even knew to suppress most likely. Krillin said that "Piccolo is 329, he;d slaughter us all" and no indication of suppresed power level is made.

Well, they suppressed their battle power just fine against the Saiyans a year later so I reckon they knew how to do it a year prior too.