Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

SansrivaaL · Post by **SansrivaaL** » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:43 pm

Ok.... why is everyone putting SSJRose Black and SSJB Vegeta in the same league? I mean wasnt it obvious as hell that Black wanted them to powerup more since he had a major boost again? I mean why would he want Vegeta and Goku to get angry and get more power if Vegeta was on par with him?

and why are people putting Super Trunks above a SSJB or on par with it? I mean yes sure Goku got defeated but Goku was able to solo both Black and Zamasu at the same time without them getting a single clean hit on him, whereas against Super Trunks he was getting fcked up and with Vegeta, Zamasu was able to land a hit, while Goku had a giant ass hole in his chest, I see that as the only reason as to how Black was able to down Goku because he already had that injury, one small push would have K.O'd him.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:11 pm

Coming back to this thread after a multi-month absence and just scrolling through the last page with no context to anything is such a joy.

"Nuh uh, Super Duper Dandelion Purple (true power)(power up 2)(kaio-ken)(Potara)(early)(scouter) is clearly >>>> Mega Ultra ZakaZaka! (holding back)(power up 3)(Red Saga)(timeline 6)(enraged)"

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:30 pm

Ok.... why is everyone putting SSJRose Black and SSJB Vegeta in the same league?

It's not like Black was letting him beat him around on purpose. He was clearly overpowered and Black was surprised by how strong he'd gotten. Zamasu was also surprised that Vegeta was overwhelming Black.

why are people putting Super Trunks above a SSJB or on par with it? I mean yes sure Goku got defeated but Goku was able to solo both Black and Zamasu at the same time without them getting a single clean hit on him

Well Super Trunks isn't as strong as current SSJB Vegeta (and probably Goku) but he's certainly above that level from when say they were first SSJB against Golden Frieza.

Super Trunks would kick Golden Frieza's ass surely? That'd make him SSJB level. He was able to hold his own against them and push Black back afterall. But no I don't think he's as strong as Goku and Vegeta at the moment no.

HeroR · Post by **HeroR** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 pm

Bullza wrote:
Ok.... why is everyone putting SSJRose Black and SSJB Vegeta in the same league?
It's not like Black was letting him beat him around on purpose. He was clearly overpowered and Black was surprised by how strong he'd gotten. Zamasu was also surprised that Vegeta was overwhelming Black.

why are people putting Super Trunks above a SSJB or on par with it? I mean yes sure Goku got defeated but Goku was able to solo both Black and Zamasu at the same time without them getting a single clean hit on him
Well Super Trunks isn't as strong as current SSJB Vegeta (and probably Goku) but he's certainly above that level from when say they were first SSJB against Golden Frieza.

Super Trunks would kick Golden Frieza's ass surely? That'd make him SSJB level. He was able to hold his own against them and push Black back afterall. But no I don't think he's as strong as Goku and Vegeta at the moment no.

Golden Freeza was well above Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, especially in Super, and we have no point of reference if Goku and Vegeta surpassed him. And it isn't like Trunks did any real damaged to Black. Also, Black more-or-less regains his advantage by the end of his fight with Vegeta.

SansrivaaL · Post by **SansrivaaL** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:57 pm

Bullza wrote:
Ok.... why is everyone putting SSJRose Black and SSJB Vegeta in the same league?
It's not like Black was letting him beat him around on purpose. He was clearly overpowered and Black was surprised by how strong he'd gotten. Zamasu was also surprised that Vegeta was overwhelming Black.

I'm talking about after Black got the boost from the beat down he got, before it yeah he was stronger than Vegeta, but now he's on top again, theres a reason why Black wants Goku and Vegeta to get angry and get a boost.

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:18 pm

Golden Freeza was well above Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, especially in Super, and we have no point of reference if Goku and Vegeta surpassed him. And it isn't like Trunks did any real damaged to Black.

He was above them but Goku was still able to hang in there for quite a while at first. In the end he was beaten but just in the same way that Black initially beat Goku and Vegeta and they'd had about an extra four years to train since then.

SSJR Black should be above Golden Frieza even at his first appearance. Super Trunks was able to hold his and overpower Black even after he'd powered up further from Goku beating on him.

I'm talking about after Black got the boost from the beat down he got

Oh well Scythe Black could be above him but he never really fought. He could still be weaker than Vegeta, as strong, stronger. I don't suppose we'll ever know now though.

HeroR · Post by **HeroR** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:30 pm

Bullza wrote:
Golden Freeza was well above Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, especially in Super, and we have no point of reference if Goku and Vegeta surpassed him. And it isn't like Trunks did any real damaged to Black.
He was above them but Goku was still able to hang in there for quite a while at first. In the end he was beaten but just in the same way that Black initially beat Goku and Vegeta and they'd had about an extra four years to train since then.

SSJR Black should be above Golden Frieza even at his first appearance. Super Trunks was able to hold his and overpower Black even after he'd powered up further from Goku beating on him.

I'm talking about after Black got the boost from the beat down he got
Oh well Scythe Black could be above him but he never really fought. He could still be weaker than Vegeta, as strong, stronger. I don't suppose we'll ever know now though.

Freeza lost because his endurance tanked. If he kept as strong as he was to beginning to end, Goku would have lost in a straight fight. Black beat Goku and Vegeta by overpowering them and improving. And even with four years of training, we still have no reference if they surpassed Golden Freeza, so you can't say Trunks as he is now can wreck him. Especially when Trunks did no real damaged to Black despite getting a giant power jump and Black mocked him the entire time. Black never saw Trunks as a threat. ever.

From things stand, Black had the advantage in the end since he could create clones that could hurt Vegeta, which shouldn't have happened if Vegeta was well above Black. Unless you think the clones are stronger than Vegeta.

SansrivaaL · Post by **SansrivaaL** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:52 pm

Bullza wrote:
I'm talking about after Black got the boost from the beat down he got
Oh well Scythe Black could be above him but he never really fought. He could still be weaker than Vegeta, as strong, stronger. I don't suppose we'll ever know now though.

Like I said, theres a reason why Black wanted Vegeta and Goku to get angry, its because he has surpassed them again, dont tell me you dont find it weird why Black would want Vegeta to power up if they were still close in power right? thats the bad part of it all, Black hasnt even lift a finger and they couldnt even get pass some clones, its Black's new gained power from the zenkai, why would we not add it up as him having it proves that he's superior to both Goku and Vegeta.

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:02 pm

Freeza lost because his endurance tanked. If he kept as strong as he was to beginning to end, Goku would have lost in a straight fight.

I was only referring to their fight from before his endurance tanked. Before that Frieza was stronger but Goku was able to put up a worthwhile fight at first. He wasn't completely bowled over.

We don't know how Goku and Vegeta compare to Golden Frieza at the start of this saga but they were stronger than back then. In the Copy Water saga Goku said that Vegeta had got even stronger and that would be just from since the Tournament.

Black beat Goku quicker and easier than what Golden Frieza did which should make Black comfortably stronger as he did so against a stronger Goku.

So for Trunks to overpower an even stronger Black than that then he's gotta be stronger than Golden Frieza too. He did damage him somewhat because he said he'd get a bruise from it. I wouldn't say he was really any less hurt than any attacks he'd received before hand.

HeroR · Post by **HeroR** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:20 pm

Bullza wrote:
Freeza lost because his endurance tanked. If he kept as strong as he was to beginning to end, Goku would have lost in a straight fight.
I was only referring to their fight from before his endurance tanked. Before that Frieza was stronger but Goku was able to put up a worthwhile fight at first. He wasn't completely bowled over.

We don't know how Goku and Vegeta compare to Golden Frieza at the start of this saga but they were stronger than back then. In the Copy Water saga Goku said that Vegeta had got even stronger and that would be just from since the Tournament.

Black beat Goku quicker and easier than what Golden Frieza did which should make Black comfortably stronger as he did so against a stronger Goku.

So for Trunks to overpower an even stronger Black than that then he's gotta be stronger than Golden Frieza too. He did damage him somewhat because he said he'd get a bruise from it. I wouldn't say he was really any less hurt than any attacks he'd received before hand.

Goku was blown away by Freeza in Super. It was in the movie that Goku was still performing decently. And they got stronger. Surpassing Golden Freeza stronger is only a guess.

Black said he 'could' get a bruise from Trunks' all or nothing attack. As far as we know Trunks may be Golden Freeza, but it wouldn't be a shut out.

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:46 pm

He wasn't that blown away. They were pretty much on par here and this was the start of the fight and it's not like Frieza was hardly trying, he was clearly putting in a lot of effort in that blast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0d9gCFGNg

Then when compared to Goku vs Black the first time and Black had him on the ground in no time at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1RnheDnJDc

HeroR · Post by **HeroR** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:00 pm

Bullza wrote:He wasn't that blown away. They were pretty much on par here and this was the start of the fight and it's not like Frieza was hardly trying, he was clearly putting in a lot of effort in that blast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0d9gCFGNg

Then when compared to Goku vs Black the first time and Black had him on the ground in no time at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1RnheDnJDc

By the middle of the fight, Freeza was beating Goku around like a punching bag. Black had Goku on the ground, but Goku was barely hurt.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:27 pm

My updated list for this arc:

Spoiler:

Merged Zamasu isn't included, because we haven't seen him in action to compare him with Beerus, Whis, etc.

DBZ Macky · Post by **DBZ Macky** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:52 am

How strong would Black's clones be? They're like the opposite of Botamo in a way. Low durability, but powerful enough to fight with 2 SSJBs.

Smilodon · Post by **Smilodon** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:10 pm

I would rank like this:

1) Zen'ou = No scale, he is in the top
2) Grand Priest = I think, like in the bible, he would be an Arcangel...So, his power would go from 18-22. And he is 20;
3) Angels. Like Whis and Vados. They are below the Grand Priest. Their power would go from 13-17. So Whis could be 15, and Vados 15,5. And the other angels would be scaled between 13-17;
4) Zen'ou guards = They would be below regular angels. I'd put them in 12 each...When Zen'o appeared, Whis and Vados were like in the same hierarchy. So, I think Zen'o needs two of them because a single one is weaker than a regular angel. And he also have the Grand Priest. But the guards are stronger than gods of destructions, for sure;
6) Zamasu fused: I'm betting he would be 11 right now. A little above Beerus, but below Zen'ou guards, and angels...
5) Gods of Destructions. I'd scale them as (8-11). Beerus is 10, but I think he is the strongest off all gods of destructions (like Zamasu said). Champa is 9,5;
6) Vegeta SSJB/Goku Black...Vegeta improved, but Black improved too after get his punisment...They would be 9 now;
7) Goku SSB + Kaioken x10 would be 8,5 only for a little time.

Hitto...He would be 8,4
9) Super Trunks would be 8
10) Goku SSB would be 7,5
11) Golden Freeza would be 7

TheUltimateNinja · Post by **TheUltimateNinja** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:53 pm

Smilodon wrote:I would rank like this:

1) Zen'ou = No scale, he is in the top
2) Grand Priest = I think, like in the bible, he would be an Arcangel...So, his power would go from 18-22. And he is 20;
3) Angels. Like Whis and Vados. They are below the Grand Priest. Their power would go from 13-17. So Whis could be 15, and Vados 15,5. And the other angels would be scaled between 13-17;
4) Zen'ou guards = They would be below regular angels. I'd put them in 12 each...When Zen'o appeared, Whis and Vados were like in the same hierarchy. So, I think Zen'o needs two of them because a single one is weaker than a regular angel. And he also have the Grand Priest. But the guards are stronger than gods of destructions, for sure;
6) Zamasu fused: I'm betting he would be 11 right now. A little above Beerus, but below Zen'ou guards, and angels...
5) Gods of Destructions. I'd scale them as (8-11). Beerus is 10, but I think he is the strongest off all gods of destructions (like Zamasu said). Champa is 9,5;
6) Vegeta SSJB/Goku Black...Vegeta improved, but Black improved too after get his punisment...They would be 9 now;
7) Goku SSB + Kaioken x10 would be 8,5 only for a little time.
Hitto...He would be 8,4
9) Super Trunks would be 8
10) Goku SSB would be 7,5
11) Golden Freeza would be 7

6-10-15 is no longer relevant to the series.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:20 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:6-10-15 is no longer relevant to the series.

Sadly, some people can't just accept this yet, just see below

ShinTenshin · Post by **ShinTenshin** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:57 pm

Serious Zamasu is unable to damage Goku SSBLUE in the 2 Last épisodes.
However, just after Black and him are really confident about Trunks to be killed very fast by Zamasu.
Add the fact than Black prefer renforce Goku and Vegeta's power with Trunks death and not the contrary !
Another confirmation that Trunks isn't SSBLUE level.
And the Preview say Trunks need 2 Senzus to fight on par with Goku and Vegeta.

So now, i would say :
Beerus 10
Merged Zamasu 9,6
Black SSROSÉ 8,4
Vegeta SSBLUE 8,3
Goku SSBLUE 8,2
Hitto 8
Golden Frieza 7,8
Super Trunks 5
Zamasu 3,6
Vegetto SS/Vegeta Rage 0,85
Goku SS3 (BOG) 0,75
Gohan Ultimate/Gotenks 0,60

Bullza · Post by **Bullza** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:05 pm

Well in the last episode Trunks said something about being able to handle Zamasu if it were just him but them Black made a comment about how Zamasu had probably dealt with them so he thought he could handle Trunks.

And the Preview say Trunks need 2 Senzus to fight on par with Goku and Vegeta.

Where's this from?

TheUltimateNinja · Post by **TheUltimateNinja** » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:07 pm

Alright, here's my hierarchy:
Battle of Gods:
SSG Goku: 6
Beerus: 500
Whis: 1,500

Resurrection F:
Goku: 7
SSBlue Goku: 10.5
Frieza: 5.2
Golden Frieza: 13, Exhausted: 9, Battered: 6
Vegeta: 6.8
SSBlue Vegeta: 10.2

Tournament:
Goku: 10
SSJ Goku: 0.01
SSBlue Goku: 15
Frost: 0.0072, Exhausted: 0.0048
Piccolo: 0.0035
Vegeta: 9.8
SSJ Vegeta: 0.0098
SSJ2 Vegeta: 0.0196
SSBlue Vegeta: 14.7
Magetta: 0.022
SSJ Cabba: 0.009
Hit (Initial): 15
Hit (Suppressed Vs Goku): 10
Hit (0.2s) 30
SSBlue Goku (Kaioken): 30, Kaioken x10: 150, Burning out: 75
Hit (0.5s): 75
Champa: 450
Vados: 1,500

Future Trunks Saga:
Goku: 11
SSJ Goku: 0.011
SSJ2 Goku: 0.022
SSJ3 Goku: 0.088
Vegeta: 10.8
SSJ2 Vegeta: 0.0216
SSJ2 Trunks: 0.02, Rage boost: 0.025, Post Training: 0.022
Black (Initial): 0.028, Vs Goku: 0.021
Present Zamasu: 0.0185
Black (God): 14, SSRose: 21
SSBlue Goku: 16.5
SSBlue Vegeta: 16.2
Future Zamasu: 14
SSJ2 Trunks (God Power): 11
SSBlue Goku (Rage Boost): 22
Super Trunks: 15
SSBlue Vegeta (Post RoSAT): 24

Kanzenshuu

Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

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