So....We don't have anything to start a comparison?TheUltimateNinja wrote: 6-10-15 is no longer relevant to the series.
It doesn't have anything to do with amounts of zeroes. The point is that the 6-10-15 scale doesn't work. While there's nothing wrong with Whis being 1.5x Beerus, since we haven't seen either's full power, God Goku being 60 % Beerus throws a massive spanner in the works. You can read through this very thread to see what I mean by that. Put simply, the gap between God Goku and Beerus with the 6-10-15 scale is much too small to fit the later high powers into, such as Blue Kaio-ken x10 Goku (which is a true x10 multiplier as shown by Hit's comments, yet somehow still inferior to Beerus and Champa). That's why most power level lists in this thread have long since disregarded that scale, instead putting Beerus' full power much higher.Smilodon wrote:So....We don't have anything to start a comparison?TheUltimateNinja wrote: 6-10-15 is no longer relevant to the series.
I made my scale in Beerus = 10 and Whis = 15. Everything else is by my interpretation. We should see if it's coerent or not. The power scale 6-10-15 is simple to start a comparison. It's not cool to put numbers like 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
Goku has to below 1/10th of Beerus as Beerus is stronger than Kaioken x10 Goku.Smilodon wrote:So....We don't have anything to start a comparison?TheUltimateNinja wrote: 6-10-15 is no longer relevant to the series.
I made my scale in Beerus = 10 and Whis = 15. Everything else is by my interpretation. We should see if it's coerent or not. The power scale 6-10-15 is simple to start a comparison. It's not cool to put numbers like 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
InconceivableBullza wrote:So what do people think of the idea that Super Saiyan Blue is 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God being that's it's the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God?
Way too much. If Blue is weaker than Beerus and God is 2 % of Blue, Battle of Gods makes no sense. That's not a case of Beerus lying about his power anymore, it's a case of God Goku barely reaching 1 % of Beerus' power, which... shouldn't excite Beerus at all.Bullza wrote:So what do people think of the idea that Super Saiyan Blue is 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God being that's it's the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God?
Hit was caught off-guard that Goku was able to hit him by predicting his Time-Skip. He wasn't when he fought Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku. As shown by Goku, dropping your guard can make even weak attacks fatal.Bullza wrote:Trunks comment on Blacks power hints at Super Saiyan 3 Goku being at best a little bit stronger than Super Saiyan Goku.
Then like I said there's Zamasu attacking Vegeta and him being able to block him. Vegeta destroying Golden Frieza's blasts (which was in the movie, I can't remember if there was something similar in the anime. Goku was able to make Hit bleed yet Super Saiyan Blue Goku doesn't shatter his skull by hitting him.
If Future Zamasu is insignificantly stronger than Present Zamasu then that would point to it possibly.
There's Base Goku fighting on par with Beerus in Monika's suit when he was starting to get into it. Seems odd that without the suit he could be hundreds of times stronger to be above Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
Trunks was one shot by a Super Saiyan 3 but then he does some image training and now he can withstand a bunch of attacks from a Super Saiyan Blue and then he trains for a day and now he's able to fight on par with these people.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku didn't attack Trunks as a Super Saiyan 2. He just blocked and caught Trunks' fits. So as far as know, Goku probably could have one-shotted Trunks as a Super Saiyan 2. He only went Super Saiyan 3 to show off.Marlowe89 wrote:Super Saiyan 3 is undoubtedly significantly stronger than Super Saiyan 2, otherwise Trunks wouldn't have gotten immediately one-shotted in their sparring match. And again, whichever Super Saiyan state was used by Goku against Zamasu, Zamasu himself confirmed it to be a multiplier in the dozens so obviously these states aren't merely marginal increases.
We can try to look for points that support our own biases all day, but the fact that these transformations do have wide gaps even after SSG's absorption is the one thing that is absolutely indisputable.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
And as others have already pointed out, if that was the case then Beerus would have been using less than 1% of his power against Goku which makes very little sense in context of BoG as a whole. It just doesn't mesh with the fact that Beerus was already at 10% against a rage boosted Vegeta, not to mention that he was clearly excited from his battle with Goku.HeroR wrote:Or C, their base forms are extremely powerful and their transformation keep their original multipliers.
But if Base Goku is as strong as Super Saiyan God and then the Super Saiyan forms still make him dozens or hundreds times stronger then it makes the entire Battle of Gods story redundant. It'd mean Beerus wouldn't need 1% to beat Goku around and we know that's not true.Or C, their base forms are extremely powerful and their transformation keep their original multipliers.
Yeah but he would still be using more power than Super Saiyan 3 Goku otherwise there'd have been no point in him laughing that level of power off and Trunks was confident that Vegeta could handle Black after fighting Vegeta whereas he said Black was stronger than Goku.Trunks withstood hits from Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta because they were training. Just because Vegeta was using his most powerful form doesn't mean he was using his full power.
An outlier most likely. In the manga he had to use SSJG to one shot but that's not an option for the anime so SSJ3 had to do it. Black was supposed to be as strong if not stronger get and he never one shot Trunks.Super Saiyan 3 is undoubtedly significantly stronger than Super Saiyan 2, otherwise Trunks wouldn't have gotten immediately one-shotted in their sparring match.
But then we've also got Beerus needing to power up to 10% in order to beat Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta. So ideally someone 10x as strong as that should force Beerus to use 100%.We can try to look for points that support our own biases all day, but the fact that these transformations do have wide gaps between them even after SSG's absorption is the one thing that is absolutely indisputable.
First and Foremost We should go into depth of super anime which presents that if someone is caught off guard that even many times weaker attack can work on them. It just shows that without Ki layer around body differences between durabilities of different characters isn't such big.Bullza wrote:Trunks comment on Blacks power hints at Super Saiyan 3 Goku being at best a little bit stronger than Super Saiyan Goku.
Then like I said there's Zamasu attacking Vegeta and him being able to block him. Vegeta destroying Golden Frieza's blasts (which was in the movie, I can't remember if there was something similar in the anime. Goku was able to make Hit bleed yet Super Saiyan Blue Goku doesn't shatter his skull by hitting him.
If Future Zamasu is insignificantly stronger than Present Zamasu then that would point to it possibly.
There's Base Goku fighting on par with Beerus in Monika's suit when he was starting to get into it. Seems odd that without the suit he could be hundreds of times stronger to be above Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
Trunks was one shot by a Super Saiyan 3 but then he does some image training and now he can withstand a bunch of attacks from a Super Saiyan Blue and then he trains for a day and now he's able to fight on par with these people.
That was my go to idea for a while. Goku's SS strenght is on par with God and an x50 increase from his Base so Blue is logically an x2500 Base increase.Bullza wrote:So what do people think of the idea that Super Saiyan Blue is 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God being that's it's the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
The only true inconsistency is that 10% line from Beerus. Everything else can be explained.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:There is no consistency among the Super Saiyan forms anymore in the anime.
On one hand:On the other hand:
- Enraged SS2 Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% of his power.
- SSG Goku forced Beerus to use most of his power, but not his full power.
- SS Goku became as strong as SSG by absorbing its power, and then he surpassed SSG through his fight with Beerus.
- After BoG, Base Goku & Vegeta can sense god ki because they have reached the required level to do so, and they are stronger than SS3 Gotenks & Ultimate Gohan.
Also there is SS2 Trunks, who gets one-shot by base Black & SS3 Goku, but can fight against Future Zamasu (who can give some trouble to a SSB) & SSR Black (who is at SSB level) for some reason. Also, Trunks is on the same level as Goku & Vegeta when in the same form (he can use base, SS, and SS2, and his Super form is on par with SSB), if not stronger, but he can't sense god ki even in his SS2 form, while Goku & Vegeta can do that in base because they are strong enough to do so. He is also stronger than SS kid Trunks in his base form. He also has SS hair in his SS2 form, what the fuck?!
- SS & SS2 are dozens of times stronger than base.
- SS3 is significantly stronger than SS2, since SS3 Goku easily one-shoted SS2 Trunks.
- SSB is significantly stronger than SS3. Base Black was initially as SS3 level, and then became even stronger, and after turning into SSR, which is his version of regular SS, he came to SSB level.
- Kaio-ken x10 SSB is still weaker than Beerus.
And let's not forget that Future Zamasu is supposed to give trouble to SSB level fighters even without his immortality, but he is weaker than base Black was even at his first appearance.
Toei has screwed up. Not even the 2 base theory saves it now.
