ZombieVito wrote:The moment Trunks couldn't touch Black and Vegeta could in episode 61. Also you can't ignore his aura growing three times it's size. We can even theorize it was a precursor to his Super Trunks transformation.
Rage boosts last for a moment. Trunks' fight in episode 57 didn't last for a moment. And what moment in episode 61 are you talking about? You have to be more specific.
Future Zamasu is more powerful simply because he's older and trained more, even Goku implies this when they begin to fight in episode 57. While Black ended up weaker than him initially, it was not a stupid decision since he grew way stronger than his future self thanks to Goku's body.
I don't disagree with you that Future Zamasu is stronger than Present Zamasu, but you believe that Black surpassed Future Zamasu when he achieved Super Saiyan Rose and was weaker than Future Zamasu all these years?
I see no reason to believe that since we have had other people keeping the rage boost for a long time (Gohan's raged boosted SSJ2 vs Cell). Trunks couldn't touch Black a single time in all of episode 61. Vegeta at least traded blows for a bit.
Yes, I do believe that. The only times Zamasu talked about Black being the "muscle" was when he already was stronger than him.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:The fuck? Why is Merged Zamasu so weak?
Going by the preview for the next episode it doesn't look like he is because he's giving SSJB Vegito a real good go of it. So either he wasn't giving it everything he had against the three (you'd still think he'd stomp effortlessly) or SSJB Vegito isn't as big of a boost as it seemed to be back in the Buu saga.
Or Merged Zamasu is less than twice as strong as each of them but this purple monster form of his makes him even more powerful still and that's what allows him to fight Vegito.
He was looking real pissed about Vegeta and Trunks pushing his attack back, so he was clearly putting in some significant effort there. What a bunch of crap.
Updated power list:
Zamasu: 14
Black: 21
SSBlue Vegeta: 24
Super Trunks: 16
SSBlue Goku: 32
Merged Zamasu: 35
Looks like Potara has been reduced to A + B.
Edit: Goku fucks Zamasu up easier than Vegeta + Trunks, holy shit.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:He was looking real pissed about Vegeta and Trunks pushing his attack back, so he was clearly putting in some significant effort there.
To be fair, Zamasu is rather easily offended in general because of his arrogance. It's quite common for him to get flustered when something unexpected happens, and I think that would hold true even if he was using only a small fraction of his power for that attack.
I don't believe he'll be forced to use his full strength until Vegito comes into the picture.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:He was looking real pissed about Vegeta and Trunks pushing his attack back, so he was clearly putting in some significant effort there.
To be fair, Zamasu is rather easily offended in general because of his arrogance. It's quite common for him to get flustered when something unexpected happens, and I think that would hold true even if he was using only a small fraction of his power for that attack.
I don't believe he'll be forced to use his full strength until Vegito comes into the picture.
Really? He whiffs an attack and gets wrecked by Vegeta and Trunks and then does the same shit and gets jobbed by Goku? He only has to put a small fraction more of his power into his attacks if he's really so strong.
There'd have to be some serious retcons involving Beerus for him to still be stronger than Merged Zamasu. The stronger they make him the more it makes the Battle of Gods story pointless.
Super Saiyan God Goku threw a punch at Beerus and he blocked it with his hand then pushed him back into space. Merged Zamasu just stopped both Goku and Vegeta's punches like it was nothing just like.. Vegeta blasted him in the face and he didn't even budge.
I know he was holding back against Super Saiyan God but Goku still gave him a tough fight and to bring it up again Beerus said that he briefly regretted hunting Super Saiyan God down so Goku isn't going to be like 1 or 2 percent of his power. At the very least he used 10% if you just assumed he didn't power up any further throughout the whole fight with Goku and that'd be odd in itself.
It'd be unnecessary for Beerus to still be stronger. If Toriyama wants Beerus to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta then that can still easily apply but he doesn't have to be stronger than SSJB Vegito or Merged Zamasu.
Toriyama only said that Goku wouldn't surpass Beerus anytime soon (that was over a year ago), not that the next Villain (Zamasu) or that Vegetto couldn't/wouldn't. Let's stop propping up Beerus. He became irrelevant the moment they introduced that Grand Priest. He's the next guy to beat IMO. On a side note, if they have a universal tournament, I think Super Trunks should join. He seems pretty strong, stronger than Majin Buu and Gohan.
MagmonKai wrote:Toriyama only said that Goku wouldn't surpass Beerus anytime soon (that was over a year ago), not that the next Villain (Zamasu) or that Vegetto couldn't/wouldn't. Let's stop propping up Beerus. He became irrelevant the moment they introduced that Grand Priest. He's the next guy to beat IMO. On a side note, if they have a universal tournament, I think Super Trunks should join. He seems pretty strong, stronger than Majin Buu and Gohan.
In theory he's been irrelevant since we were told how strong Whis was and their are bound to be stronger Gods of Destruction let alone higher deities. Yet Beerus is still the bench mark our heroes have yet to get to let alone surpass.
He's relevant until one of the heroes surpasses him.
Bullza wrote:There'd have to be some serious retcons involving Beerus for him to still be stronger than Merged Zamasu. The stronger they make him the more it makes the Battle of Gods story pointless.
Super Saiyan God Goku threw a punch at Beerus and he blocked it with his hand then pushed him back into space. Merged Zamasu just stopped both Goku and Vegeta's punches like it was nothing just like.. Vegeta blasted him in the face and he didn't even budge.
I know he was holding back against Super Saiyan God but Goku still gave him a tough fight and to bring it up again Beerus said that he briefly regretted hunting Super Saiyan God down so Goku isn't going to be like 1 or 2 percent of his power. At the very least he used 10% if you just assumed he didn't power up any further throughout the whole fight with Goku and that'd be odd in itself.
It'd be unnecessary for Beerus to still be stronger. If Toriyama wants Beerus to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta then that can still easily apply but he doesn't have to be stronger than SSJB Vegito or Merged Zamasu.
I concur with that. To be candid, Merged Zamasu would have to actually be stronger than Beerus if Battle of Gods is to have any significance or impact; otherwise, assuming that everything happening in that arc was illusory would just completely undermine the whole narrative of BoG's story.
A direct comparison to Beerus of some sort would be nice, but we did get a couple of things from this episode. Vegeta said "God or not, I've never felt anyone let off a ki/energy like this" while Supreme Kai said "His standing as a god is beyond even our understanding!". That would definitely suggest that he's comfortably above the scale we've been exposed to throughout Super's previous arcs.
If Bluegetto isn't isn't above Beerus. Goku and Vegeta might as well give up at this rate.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Cetra wrote:I would suppose Full Power Neo Zamas and Vegetto are higher than Beerus power-wise but that's really it. I doubt they are close to Whis and Vados.
Oh, yeah I'm very much certain at this point that SSJB Vegetto and Merged Zamasu are above Beerus, but they sure as hell ain't touching the likes of Whis, Vados, Grand Priest etc.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Cetra wrote:I would suppose Full Power Neo Zamas and Vegetto are higher than Beerus power-wise but that's really it. I doubt they are close to Whis and Vados.
Oh, yeah I'm very much certain at this point that SSJB Vegetto and Merged Zamasu are above Beerus, but they sure as hell ain't touching the likes of Whis, Vados, Grand Priest etc.
Inbefore Vegetto Divine 100x Divine Kaiouken Big Bang Kame Hame Ha.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy
feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"
At first I was thought surely Zamasu has to be stronger than Beerus because he beat them both like they were nothing. Beerus didn't beat SSJG Goku nearly as easily, holding back or not.
However then Future Trunks and SSJB Vegeta overpowered his blast which I suppose wouldn't make Merged Zamasu so much as twice as strong and SSJB Goku was holding in there too.
But then there was the preview and it does look as though SSJB Vegito is going to be a thing and it doesn't look like he's going to making a joke of Zamasu like he did Janemba, Buu and Omega Shenron. I'll have to look again but did we see another form of Zamasu? I'm sure he was purple.
If they're not above Beerus then I don't know what's going on.
Merged Zamaus was bineg lazy. He wiped the floor with everyone once he semi-serious.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
