Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

So is Zamasu stronger than the saiyans or not? I found this episode pretty confusing since the power levels were inconsistent. At the beginning, Zamasu wrecks Goku and Vegeta and stopped their attacks like it was nothing. But by the end, we have Vegeta/Trunks overpowering him and Goku pushing back his Ki blast on his own. Zamasu is visibly surprised and pissed that Vegeta and Trunks overpowered him. Vegeta and Goku get KO'd and defeated multiple times but are not only do they survive but can return to fighting shape.

It just seems like a merged Zamasu should be so much more powerful than he's depicted. Like, he should be literally facetanking anything they throw at him with

Well, given the fact that we see him force even Vegetto to get serious in the NEP, I'd say he was majorly holding back and was using only 2-3% of his power.

[ShinTenshin]

Welcome to the immortal show of the SSBLUE ! Goku still the strongest, it's good to know. As for Trunks he is unable to move after the Galick Gun, saved by a Vegeta that have taken millions more damages, LOL ! So return of the beginning of the arc, Goku >Vegeta >> Trunks.

[SansrivaaL]

So is Zamasu stronger than the saiyans or not? I found this episode pretty confusing since the power levels were inconsistent. At the beginning, Zamasu wrecks Goku and Vegeta and stopped their attacks like it was nothing. But by the end, we have Vegeta/Trunks overpowering him and Goku pushing back his Ki blast on his own. Zamasu is visibly surprised and pissed that Vegeta and Trunks overpowered him. Vegeta and Goku get KO'd and defeated multiple times but are not only do they survive but can return to fighting shape.

It just seems like a merged Zamasu should be so much more powerful than he's depicted. Like, he should be literally facetanking anything they throw at him with

Well, given the fact that we see him force even Vegetto to get serious in the NEP, I'd say he was majorly holding back and was using only 2-3% of his power.

Either that or for some reason Goku and Vegeta got the huge zenkai's like how Black gets em.

[Khin]

I'm really pissed that Goku's Kamehameha could perform as well as Trunks and Vegeta's "Father-Son Galick Gun" together.

Kamehame-ha, along with other attacks in the series is an attack that can multiply the power of the user, take Goku being 416 and jumping to 924+ against Raditz for example, and that's the Kamemhame-ha that was implied to be outdated in the Cell Arc.

We don't know if Gyarik-ho have the same effect, but in this episode it seems it doesn't. So it looks like Final Flash is the only technique Vegeta has that can multiply his power (As that attack was implied to have obliterated Cell had he not dodge, even though ''Super Vegeta'' is weaker than him).

So just because Goku's Kamehame-ha could perform as well as Trunks and Vegeta's combined Gyarik-ho, that doesn't necessarily mean that Goku is stronger than both of them combined.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm really pissed that Goku's Kamehameha could perform as well as Trunks and Vegeta's "Father-Son Galick Gun" together.

Kamehame-ha, along with other attacks in the series is an attack that can multiply the power of the user, take Goku being 416 and jumping to 924+ against Raditz for example, and that's the Kamemhame-ha that was implied to be outdated in the Cell Arc.

We don't know if Gyarik-ho have the same effect, but in this episode it seems it doesn't. So it looks like Final Flash is the only technique Vegeta has that can multiply his power (As that attack was implied to have obliterated Cell had he not dodge, even though ''Super Vegeta'' is weaker than him).

So just because Goku's Kamehame-ha could perform as well as Trunks and Vegeta's combined Gyarik-ho, that doesn't necessarily mean that Goku is stronger than both of them combined.

Galick Gun isn't inferior to Kamehameha, Vegeta at 18k was able to match Kaioken x3 Goku's 24k Kamehameha. Granted, Goku was probably weakened from using Kaioken and wasn't at full power, but it's still a very impressive technique, it may even surpass Kamehameha. The fact of the matter is Goku at long last has finally surpassed Vegeta.

[DBZ Macky]

The fact of the matter is Goku at long last has finally surpassed Vegeta.

At long last, for one and a half whole episodes
Not to mention he always has the Kaio-ken.

[AvatarReiko]

I thought a Ki Blast is entirely dependent on the user? No Ki attack is inherently stronger than other and the power just depends on how strong the person firing in it is. For example, a SBC from current Piccolo would easily outperform any KK or galic gun performed by Namek Saga Vegeta/Goku.

[Khin]

Galick Gun isn't inferior to Kamehameha, Vegeta at 18k was able to match Kaioken x3 Goku's 24k Kamehameha. Granted, Goku was probably weakened from using Kaioken and wasn't at full power, but it's still a very impressive technique, it may even surpass Kamehameha. The fact of the matter is Goku at long last has finally surpassed Vegeta.

Vegeta was only able to push the Gyarik-ho at that time because Goku's body was fucked up due to using Kaio-ken x3 and doesn't have enough energy to push it, at least that's how I see it. The only attack that seems to be comparable or perhaps stronger than Goku's Kamehame-ha is the Final Flash, where it was very clear that the attack is way stronger than Vegeta's power.

Nothing in this episode says Goku has surpassed Vegeta, not even a rage boost statement or something. Saying Goku is stronger than Vegeta just because his Kamehame-ha is stronger than him is like saying Piccolo is stronger or comparable to Raditz because his Makankosappo was around 1,300.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I thought a Ki Blast is entirely dependent on the user? No Ki attack is inherently stronger than other and the power just depends on how strong the person firing in it is. For example, a SBC from current Piccolo would easily outperform any KK or galic gun performed by Namek Saga Vegeta/Goku.

Certain techniques definitely have better amp capacity. I don't think you could amplify, say, a Masenko or a Kienzan to the level of a Makankosappo.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Galick Gun isn't inferior to Kamehameha, Vegeta at 18k was able to match Kaioken x3 Goku's 24k Kamehameha. Granted, Goku was probably weakened from using Kaioken and wasn't at full power, but it's still a very impressive technique, it may even surpass Kamehameha. The fact of the matter is Goku at long last has finally surpassed Vegeta.

Vegeta was only able to push the Gyarik-ho at that time because Goku's body was fucked up due to using Kaio-ken x3 and doesn't have enough energy to push it, at least that's how I see it. The only attack that seems to be comparable or perhaps stronger than Goku's Kamehame-ha is the Final Flash, where it was very clear that the attack is way stronger than Vegeta's power.

Nothing in this episode says Goku has surpassed Vegeta, not even a rage boost statement or something. Saying Goku is stronger than Vegeta just because his Kamehame-ha is stronger than him is like saying Piccolo is stronger or comparable to Raditz because his Makankosappo was around 1,300.

But Goku was able to muster even more power than Trunks and Vegeta combined in less time. You're saying Kamehameha is over twice as strong as Galick Gun?

[HeroR]

If you still have Vegetto below Beerus it basically gets to the point where you have Beerus using like 0.5% of his power against SSG Goku.

Isn't like Beerus gave a percentage, unlike the movie.

We can deduce this from the fact that Vegetto is still weaker than Beerus. Vegetto's base back when they used him in the Buu Arc was at least as high as SSJ Goku so if he's still weaker than Beerus this means current Goku is still below 2% of Beerus.

We don't know what Vegetto's base was in the Buu Saga since he didn't fight in his base form in the manga. The only thing we know is that Super Saiyan Vegetto >> Super Buu after absorbing Gohan, and maybe Super Saiyan 3 > Beerus given Goku's statement.

We also know that Beerus was full of bull about his power throughout the entire Battle of Gods Saga, so none of his statement should be taking as fact unless someone else backs it.

[DBZ Macky]

I thought a Ki Blast is entirely dependent on the user? No Ki attack is inherently stronger than other and the power just depends on how strong the person firing in it is. For example, a SBC from current Piccolo would easily outperform any KK or galic gun performed by Namek Saga Vegeta/Goku.

I guess that just means the "Filthy Mortals" have better control of their Ki than the "Supreme God Zamasu"
And I agree with Khin, the Kamehameha is a lot stronger than the Gyarikku Ho.

I really wanted the Anime to bring back Kaio-ken for the Kamehameha, in fact, a 20x one. Base Vegetto is definitely stronger than SSJ3 Goku (At least in the anime), so in equal forms, Vegetto is at least 500x Goku anyways.
Going by that, Bluper Saiyan Vegetto is 500 times stronger than Bluper Saiyan Goku.
I dunno how they're gonna fit such an extreme gap in power.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Isn't like Beerus gave a percentage, unlike the movie.

We can deduce this from the fact that Vegetto is still weaker than Beerus. Vegetto's base back when they used him in the Buu Arc was at least as high as SSJ Goku so if he's still weaker than Beerus this means current Goku is still below 2% of Beerus.

We don't know what Vegetto's base was in the Buu Saga since he didn't fight in his base form in the manga. The only thing we know is that Super Saiyan Vegetto >> Super Buu after absorbing Gohan, and maybe Super Saiyan 3 > Beerus given Goku's statement.

We also know that Beerus was full of bull about his power throughout the entire Battle of Gods Saga, so none of his statement should be taking as fact unless someone else backs it.

We know SSJ3 is 400x Goku's base and is no match for Super Buu and Super Buu is no match for Gohan, so Buuhan must at minimum be well over 1,000x stronger than Base Goku. And we know Super Vegetto was able to make a joke of him easily, so Super Vegetto is probably at least 2,000-2,500x stronger than Goku, and 2,500/50 = 50, so his base has to be SSJ Goku level at least.

[Khin]

But Goku was able to muster even more power than Trunks and Vegeta combined in less time. You're saying Kamehameha is over twice as strong as Galick Gun?

Goku charged a weaker version of Kamehame-ha against Raditz for a little amount of time and it raised his battle power more than twice. It won't matter how long Vegeta and Trunks are gonna charge their Gyarik-ho if it won't multiply their power, and such attack power-ups seems to be inconsistent anyway.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I thought a Ki Blast is entirely dependent on the user? No Ki attack is inherently stronger than other and the power just depends on how strong the person firing in it is. For example, a SBC from current Piccolo would easily outperform any KK or galic gun performed by Namek Saga Vegeta/Goku.

I guess that just means the "Filthy Mortals" have better control of their Ki than the "Supreme God Zamasu"
And I agree with Khin, the Kamehameha is a lot stronger than the Gyarikku Ho.

I really wanted the Anime to bring back Kaio-ken for the Kamehameha, in fact, a 20x one. Base Vegetto is definitely stronger than SSJ3 Goku (At least in the anime), so in equal forms, Vegetto is at least 500x Goku anyways.
Going by that, Bluper Saiyan Vegetto is 500 times stronger than Bluper Saiyan Goku.
I dunno how they're gonna fit such an extreme gap in power.

If you take the Z anime into account there's no way Vegetto can't effortlessly oneshot both Beerus and Whis on his own as it was a several thousand-fold multiplier there, at least in the manga you can have the fusion at a 40-50x multiplier which is more reasonable.

[HeroR]

We can deduce this from the fact that Vegetto is still weaker than Beerus. Vegetto's base back when they used him in the Buu Arc was at least as high as SSJ Goku so if he's still weaker than Beerus this means current Goku is still below 2% of Beerus.

We don't know what Vegetto's base was in the Buu Saga since he didn't fight in his base form in the manga. The only thing we know is that Super Saiyan Vegetto >> Super Buu after absorbing Gohan, and maybe Super Saiyan 3 > Beerus given Goku's statement.

We also know that Beerus was full of bull about his power throughout the entire Battle of Gods Saga, so none of his statement should be taking as fact unless someone else backs it.

We know SSJ3 is 400x Goku's base and is no match for Super Buu and Super Buu is no match for Gohan, so Buuhan must at minimum be well over 1,000x stronger than Base Goku. And we know Super Vegetto was able to make a joke of him easily, so Super Vegetto is probably at least 2,000-2,500x stronger than Goku, and 2,500/50 = 50, so his base has to be SSJ Goku level at least.

In the manga, Super Saiyan 3 being a 400x multiplier from base isn't stated. It is only in the data books, which are extremely questionable since Toriyama thought Super Saiyan being a 50x multiplier was too high and was thinking more like 10x. And Goku being no match for Super Buu is questionable since this is the same guy who claimed he couldn't beat Fat Buu earlier. So that 1,000x number just came out of your head.

[TheUltimateNinja]

We don't know what Vegetto's base was in the Buu Saga since he didn't fight in his base form in the manga. The only thing we know is that Super Saiyan Vegetto >> Super Buu after absorbing Gohan, and maybe Super Saiyan 3 > Beerus given Goku's statement.

We also know that Beerus was full of bull about his power throughout the entire Battle of Gods Saga, so none of his statement should be taking as fact unless someone else backs it.

We know SSJ3 is 400x Goku's base and is no match for Super Buu and Super Buu is no match for Gohan, so Buuhan must at minimum be well over 1,000x stronger than Base Goku. And we know Super Vegetto was able to make a joke of him easily, so Super Vegetto is probably at least 2,000-2,500x stronger than Goku, and 2,500/50 = 50, so his base has to be SSJ Goku level at least.

In the manga, Super Saiyan 3 being a 400x multiplier from base isn't stated. It is only in the data books, which are extremely questionable since Toriyama thought Super Saiyan being a 50x multiplier was too high and was thinking more like 10x. And Goku being no match for Super Buu is questionable since this is the same guy who claimed he couldn't beat Fat Buu earlier. So that 1,000x number just came out of your head.

Gotenks who's a good deal stronger than Goku was himself having a rough go of it fighting Super Buu in SSJ3, so we know that Super Buu is definitely stronger than Goku.

[HeroR]

Gotenks who's a good deal stronger than Goku was himself having a rough go of it fighting Super Buu in SSJ3, so we know that Super Buu is definitely stronger than Goku.

It was never stated that Gotenks was stronger, let alone, a good deal stronger than Goku. And again, Goku said he couldn't' beat Fat Buu, even when Piccolo asked him point blank if he went all out could he have win, only to find out that Goku was straight up lying. He also claimed to be only an even match for Vegeta and that there was no way he could beat Buu if Vegeta couldn't. Find out he was full of BS then too.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Gotenks who's a good deal stronger than Goku was himself having a rough go of it fighting Super Buu in SSJ3, so we know that Super Buu is definitely stronger than Goku.

It was never stated that Gotenks was stronger, let alone, a good deal stronger than Goku. And again, Goku said he couldn't' beat Fat Buu, even when Piccolo asked him point blank if he went all out could he have win, only to find out that Goku was straight up lying. He also claimed to be only an even match for Vegeta and that there was no way he could beat Buu if Vegeta couldn't. Find out he was full of BS then too.

Everyone was shocked at Gotenks' power when he first came into being, this wouldn't be the case if he was a joke to Goku in terms of power, and he became even stronger after training in the RoSAT. Piccolo thought he could defeat Buu even without SSJ2 and SSJ3, so he's got to be much stronger than even SSJ2 Goku using only regular SSJ.

[ShinTenshin]

Goku lied to Piccolo + Vegeta about his power level so... Vegeta himself say the SS3 against Kid Buu is FAR FAR STRONGER than during the fight that he have seen with Goku versus Fat Buu in the other world. We know Goku show his true level only in the Kaioshin World.

Add the fact that Goku don't think that Gohan and Gotenks reunited can beat Kid Buu but just "help", that's the final statement of the Arc ! At least BOG + the beginning of DBSUPER OFFICIALLY state that Goku is the Strongest Z just after Buu Saga.