Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

You're not really proving the Zamasu is not any more than 2x normal SSJBs. Trunks held back the attack in the energy clash and managed to push it with Vegeta then Zamasu was clearly annoyed by his attack getting pushed while SSJ2 Gohan obliterated through Perfect Cell's Kamehameha just by being a normal 2x stronger.

Where are you getting this multiplier? Zamasu was annoyed because two mortals dared to hit him. The same way he was annoyed when Vegeta and Goku tried to hit him. Also, Gohan killed Super Perfect Cell who almost closed the gap with Gohan, so Gohan wasn't 2x stronger than Cell.

He's talking about the scene with regular Perfect Cell where he gets frustrated and tries to blow up the planet, and Gohan instantly does a Kamehameha with no charge time and easily pushes him back. I don't know about 2x, though, FP Cell is much stronger than the Cell who faced MSSJ Gohan, so I'd say Gohan was 1.3-1.5x stronger.

[Helios518]

Where I'm getting the multiplier? I already inferred how I got it.

When (Not Super) Perfect Cell when in the sky and shot Kamehameha towards the Earth but Gohan casually shot through it by being at most 2x stronger than Cell.

A relatively minor 2x gap did that but why didn't Zamasu's attack do the same to Vegeta's and Trunks's beam if he is supposedly 2x or more than both of them possibly combined? or if he was so annoyed to get hit by the beams then why didn't he do a Broli and just add on to his attack?

Because Zamasu is being 'I'm god' and not trying. He knocked Goku and Vegeta down twice and didn't kill them by just ki spamming. He didn't want to add to the attack because he didn't think he should try so hard against bugs.

And the 2x multiplier was never stated in the manga or even the anime. It came from a guidebook, which are questionable since Toriyama doesn't even agree that Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier.

Then why is Zamasu being annoyed that he even got hit if apparently it's his fault alone to not either easily dodge or overpower them?

Toriyama also said in that same exact statement you're referencing that the SSJ should be 10x but you and I know how much that fits with the series.

[Legion]

However this is not same logic as neither gowasu or shin have witnessed Whis/Vados(angels) or high priest, guards or even omniking in fight, while clearly one of them witnessed at least beerus vs champa(more impressive in manga).

But there is no evidence.

Just to clarify, I never say that Beerus> merged Zamasu. But for now, i have not seen anything that suggests merged Zamasu> Beerus. I wait the next episodes.

I don't care about power levels and multipliers in this anime. The characters are as strong as the plot requires them to be....

[HeroR]

Then why is Zamasu being annoyed that he even got hit if apparently it's his fault alone to not either easily dodge or overpower them?

Toriyama also said in that same exact statement you're referencing that the SSJ should be 10x but you and I know how much that fits with the series.

This is Zamasu, an arrogant prick god. Why would he blame himself for mortals touching him?

And I know what Toriyama said about Super Saiyan being only a 10x multiplier. The point is that he didn't have 2x multiplier when he had Gohan deflect Cell's attack. Only that Gohan was stronger than Cell by a good amount.

[apex_pretador]

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

[HeroR]

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

What are you basing this on?

In fact, there are a lot of baseless statements in this forum.

[apex_pretador]

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

What are you basing this on?

In fact, there are a lot of baseless statements in this forum.

- Beerus vs Champa, heavily suppressed, can't even fight because it will destroy the universe
- Vegetto vs Zamasu are going at it in NEP, without any threat to even earth.

- No claims about beerus being surpassed, by anyone.
- The only reason this battle is even going because hakaishins aren't allowed to time travel

- SSB's are a joke to beerus, but not to merged Zamasu.

[HeroR]

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

What are you basing this on?

In fact, there are a lot of baseless statements in this forum.

- Beerus vs Champa, heavily suppressed, can't even fight because it will destroy the universe
- Vegetto vs Zamasu are going at it in NEP, without any threat to even earth.

- No claims about beerus being surpassed, by anyone.
- The only reason this battle is even going because hakaishins aren't allowed to time travel

- SSB's are a joke to beerus, but not to merged Zamasu.

So they must be weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku since he nearly destroyed the universe just fist bumping Beerus.

And there have been no claim that he is weaker than Beerus. We also never saw Beerus fight Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan God or Vegeta, so there is no bases to this claim.

[Helios518]

Then why is Zamasu being annoyed that he even got hit if apparently it's his fault alone to not either easily dodge or overpower them?

Toriyama also said in that same exact statement you're referencing that the SSJ should be 10x but you and I know how much that fits with the series.

This is Zamasu, an arrogant prick god. Why would he blame himself for mortals touching him?

And I know what Toriyama said about Super Saiyan being only a 10x multiplier. The point is that he didn't have 2x multiplier when he had Gohan deflect Cell's attack. Only that Gohan was stronger than Cell by a good amount.

He didn't have to get hit (via dodging or blasting the attack away) if he was 2x or more powerful because we've seen those characters easily outspeed and overpower their opponent.

Idk man, SSJ2/3 multipliers are widely accepted in the community because they fit like a glove with the manga and are official while what you're telling me is less supported.

[ssbgoku]

Then why is Zamasu being annoyed that he even got hit if apparently it's his fault alone to not either easily dodge or overpower them?
Toriyama also said in that same exact statement you're referencing that the SSJ should be 10x but you and I know how much that fits with the series.

Simply, Zamasu is stubborn about god not putting more power against mortal then he finds necessary and that why he got annoyed that he was wrong, just like beerus. Gods are getting annoyed due being proven wrong. That why Zamasu was annoyed but still didn't want to be caught being wrong so at least he wanted to shown them that he can easily tank such weak attack which in his eyes(complex) proved him stronger.

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

Yeah, you are just beerus fanboy so I didn't expect anything better from you. I wish so much for Akira to bring you back to earth and show beerus humilated for sake of his fanbase being put in their place. There is more characters stronger introduced then beerus so it should be otherwise.

Also, About Akira stating neither goku or vegeta will suprass beerus anytime soon, sure, even although it was some times ago, Vegitto isn't either goku or vegeta so it doesn't apply to him and fusions were always expections to rule.

[apex_pretador]

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

Yeah, you are just beerus fanboy so I didn't expect anything better from you. I wish so much for Akira to bring you back to earth and show beerus humilated for sake of his fanbase being put in their place. There is more characters stronger introduced then beerus so it should be otherwise.

Also, About Akira stating neither goku or vegeta will suprass beerus anytime soon, sure, even although it was some times ago, Vegitto isn't either goku or vegeta so it doesn't apply to him and fusions were always expections to rule.

How about you show something to prove that Vegetto SSB is actually above beerus?

[Helios518]

Then why is Zamasu being annoyed that he even got hit if apparently it's his fault alone to not either easily dodge or overpower them?
Toriyama also said in that same exact statement you're referencing that the SSJ should be 10x but you and I know how much that fits with the series.

Simply, Zamasu is stubborn about god not putting more power against mortal then he finds necessary and that why he got annoyed that he was wrong, just like beerus. Gods are getting annoyed due being proven wrong. That why Zamasu was annoyed but still didn't want to be caught being wrong so at least he wanted to shown them that he can easily tank such weak attack which in his eyes(complex) proved him stronger.

If what Zamasu finds necessary is to put a less energy in an attack then actually needed then he must be a rookie at sensing ki which is nigh-impossible.

[ssbgoku]

Beerus would trash merged Zamasu and SSB vegetto with KK x10 together.

Yeah, you are just beerus fanboy so I didn't expect anything better from you. I wish so much for Akira to bring you back to earth and show beerus humilated for sake of his fanbase being put in their place. There is more characters stronger introduced then beerus so it should be otherwise.

Also, About Akira stating neither goku or vegeta will suprass beerus anytime soon, sure, even although it was some times ago, Vegitto isn't either goku or vegeta so it doesn't apply to him and fusions were always expections to rule.

How about you show something to prove that Vegetto SSB is actually above beerus?

Easy, Vegeta and goku have witnessed both beerus vs champa brief battle, and I don't care about bullshit about them being supressed as they were both serious so it was not the point, Whis and Vados just had to step in in time to stop them from spreading their destructive power outside of place they clashed against each other.

Vegeta has been never caught lying while talking about serious matter and he claimed for Black Zamasu to be the strongest he has felt and goku didn't feel to correct him being impressed by him put Black Zamasu >=Beerus and Ssb vegito from preview is around this level, they may not be vastly supperior but even a bit would work.

Now, try to coutner this I am curious.

Then why is Zamasu being annoyed that he even got hit if apparently it's his fault alone to not either easily dodge or overpower them?
Toriyama also said in that same exact statement you're referencing that the SSJ should be 10x but you and I know how much that fits with the series.

Simply, Zamasu is stubborn about god not putting more power against mortal then he finds necessary and that why he got annoyed that he was wrong, just like beerus. Gods are getting annoyed due being proven wrong. That why Zamasu was annoyed but still didn't want to be caught being wrong so at least he wanted to shown them that he can easily tank such weak attack which in his eyes(complex) proved him stronger.

If what Zamasu finds necessary is to put a less energy in an attack then actually needed then he must be a rookie at sensing ki.

Or there is more to that, as Zamasu's pride is even higher then vegeta's pride was back then... I mean seriously he could be also still carefree due to huge power he got and also being immortal, remember that one immortal zamasu is being part of this fusion... it may be just his bad habbit.

[ekrolo2]

I think we can officially drop any pretense that this works like Dragon Ball did and accept it for what it is: One Piece logic. So, if a character is determined enough, it doesn't matter if their spines been ripped out of their backs and shoved up their asses, they'll somehow keep fighting, getting stronger and winning because determination says so.

[Helios518]

Before I continue on arguing, I'll just wait to see if Zamasu reveals if he suppressed the entire time.

[Cetra]

How about you show something to prove that Vegetto SSB is actually above beerus?

There is also nothing to prove the opposite so this argument is a complete waste of time.

[HeroR]

He didn't have to get hit (via dodging or blasting the attack away) if he was 2x or more powerful because we've seen those characters easily outspeed and overpower their opponent.

Idk man, SSJ2/3 multipliers are widely accepted in the community because they fit like a glove with the manga and are official while what you're telling me is less supported.

Merged Zamasu is part Future Zamasu. When did you see him dodged? This is the same idiot who didn't bother to move when Trunks did the Evil Containment Wave. Merged Zamasu is too full of himself to move. He literally floated in the same space for the entire episode.

Just because it's widely accepted doesn't mean it's 'canon' or what Toriyama think. The Bardock TV special is also widely accepted, and Toriyama still wrote Minus. You also don't need to be 2x powerful to tank blows. Nappa wasn't 2x stronger than any of the Z-Fighters and he wiped them with only getting some bruises. Transformed Zarbon destroyed Vegeta despite the gap being only 10,000.

[GodVegetto91]

However this is not same logic as neither gowasu or shin have witnessed Whis/Vados(angels) or high priest, guards or even omniking in fight, while clearly one of them witnessed at least beerus vs champa(more impressive in manga).

But there is no evidence.

Just to clarify, I never say that Beerus> merged Zamasu. But for now, i have not seen anything that suggests merged Zamasu> Beerus. I wait the next episodes.

I don't care about power levels and multipliers in this anime. The characters are as strong as the plot requires them to be....

Apparently you didn't pay attention then. Vegeta said he's never seen ANYONE who possesses that much energy. And then Gowasu said that when they fused, their powers didn't just merge together.. No, it expanded to NO END...!
In fact, the contrary should be true to what your suggesting.. We should automatically assume the fusion to be stronger than Beerus UNLESS something says otherwise! And many more hints in this episode.. They were all terrified.

[Noah]

For me Merged Zamasu is a Angel-tier (Whis/Vados) and SSGSS Vegetto is slighty above him, so yeah 100% FP Beerus stands no chance

[apex_pretador]

Yeah, you are just beerus fanboy so I didn't expect anything better from you. I wish so much for Akira to bring you back to earth and show beerus humilated for sake of his fanbase being put in their place. There is more characters stronger introduced then beerus so it should be otherwise.

Also, About Akira stating neither goku or vegeta will suprass beerus anytime soon, sure, even although it was some times ago, Vegitto isn't either goku or vegeta so it doesn't apply to him and fusions were always expections to rule.

How about you show something to prove that Vegetto SSB is actually above beerus?

Easy, Vegeta and goku have witnessed both beerus vs champa brief battle, and I don't care about bullshit about them being supressed as they were both serious so it was not the point, Whis and Vados just had to step in in time to stop them from spreading their destructive power outside of place they clashed against each other.

Vegeta has been never caught lying while talking about serious matter and he claimed for Black Zamasu to be the strongest he has felt and goku didn't feel to correct him being impressed by him put Black Zamasu >=Beerus and Ssb vegito from preview is around this level, they may not be vastly supperior but even a bit would work.

Now, try to coutner this I am curious.

Beerus and Champa were nowhere near full power before they were stopped. They were just starting to get angry.