Is it ironic the current FUNI/VA dub is well received now?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

"Beerus" might be as correct as "Beers," but "Beers" is the one that Steve Simmons used for both Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.

By the way, was it ever officially confirmed that Beerus's name was a pun on both beer and virus? Because obviously Whis is in-line with the alcohol pun.

Yes, and the dual meaning of the pun has its roots in the Toriyama's re-write of BoG. If someone wants to link the source for that, I'd be much obliged.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

What if Super has changed scripts like DBZ?

It won't. The scripts in the old dubs were a product of their time, that's just how things were handled back then. DBS is a product of today, a time where faithful scripts are more important, and it will be handled accordingly.

See, this is one issue I have with much of the DB fanbase - the majority doesnt care enough about dubs to say things on this subject, with many people being interested in the dub solely because "it is mainstream, & as such, it shows DB - a decent version since Kai - can be popular". DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

"FUNimation" was just a Toei employee's relative. That's it. Cartoon Network, & the strength of the story itself, made it a phenomenon. This one guy was simply doing the best he could. & once the show got popular enough, there were *easy* subs to find on DVD, with good translations.

Again, I want a faithful representation of DB on kids' TV, where it *should* be...but at the same time - shouldnt we be watching the Japanese version anyway (as is done for almost all other anime, partially because they had faithful dubs)? Wouldnt it be an improvement to get more $ for the production of the show in Japan?

[RandomGuy96]

That's not what irony means.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

Firstly, you're wrong about Toei. They didn't help matters, and their negligence strongly influenced the decision to replace the score, as well as being responsible for the lack of NEPs to this day. However, Funimation were ultimately the ones who butchered the script, and could have made an accurate dub any time they wanted to. Nothing was stopping them, censorship issues being the exception. Lousy dubbing just wasn't as ill-thought of back then.

Cartoon Network, & the strength of the story itself, made it a phenomenon. This one guy was simply doing the best he could. & once the show got popular enough, there were *easy* subs to find on DVD, with good translations.

No, no, no, you're so wrong that it hurts. It can be, and was done better in many other countries. No one was doing the best they could, and the subs were only a thing because of fan demand due to backlash from the dub. If you want to know what the dub could have been, what "doing the best they could" is, I suggest you seek out the Pioneer Dub of the first 3 DBZ Movies. Those releases are what the dub should have been from Day 1.

[Hellspawn28]

DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

The dub of DBZ was a dub of it's time. The dialogue and music feel like a dub of the 90's and early 2000's. Not to mention Funimation was dubbing the series to younger kids which is why we got such silly dailogue like Freeza saying "Pop goes the Weasel", Vegeta saying "Mondo Cool" and Yamucha said "Cat Loves Food". The dub of DBZ is not much different the dubs that Digimon, Pokemon and Sailor Moon had at the time.

[Soppa Saia People]

DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

The dub of DBZ was a dub of it's time. The dialogue and music feel like a dub of the 90's and early 2000's. Not to mention Funimation was dubbing the series to younger kids which is why we got such silly dailogue like Freeza saying "Pop goes the Weasel", Vegeta saying "Mondo Cool" and "Cat Loves Food". The dub of DBZ is not much different the dubs that Digimon, Pokemon and Sailor Moon had at the time.

That was Kuririn and Yamucha I believe.

[Hellspawn28]

I know, I just forgot to put Yamucha's name there. There is no reason to water down a dub of Super for kids if it airs on TV. Kai had a great English dub and was successful on Nick Toons. It didn't get the same ratings that DBZ did back in the day, but Kai still did good job on a channel that most people don't have.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

Firstly, you're wrong about Toei. While they didn't help matters, and their negligence strongly influenced the decision to replace the score, as well as being responsible for the lack of NEPs to this day. But ultimately, Funimation were the ones who butchered the script, and could have made an accurate dub any time they wanted to. Nothing was stopping them, censorship issues being the exception. Lousy dubbing just wasn't as ill-thought of back then.

You're dreaming. Many critics, & even fans, of dubs, make fun of old, manually done dubs. This is literally the opposite of conventional wisdom, & it's only a few kids' shows that got this treatment. You're talking so much about accuracy when quality is also important. Yes, it's a luxury, but it's certainly preferable to a "meh" dub. If FUNi had left the show as-is, the likely terrible quality of their dub would have been far more front-&-center, when unable to hide behind blaring electronica & silly jokes. It just wouldnt have been enjoyable - they didnt have any *money*, dude. & when they *did* get tons of $ from their DBZ dub...voila, they bought tons of subs, to distribute cheaply. Beyond just DB material.

Cartoon Network, & the strength of the story itself, made it a phenomenon. This one guy was simply doing the best he could. & once the show got popular enough, there were *easy* subs to find on DVD, with good translations.

No, no, no, you're so wrong that it hurts. It can be, and was done better in many other countries. No one was doing the best they could, and the subs were only a thing because of fan demand due to backlash from the dub. If you want to know what the dub could have been, what "doing the best they could" is, I suggest you seek out the Pioneer Dub of the first 3 DBZ Movies. Those releases are what the dub should have been from Day 1.

It isnt fair to compare one guy in his basement, to (in the case of the God-tier Mexican dub) a proper recording studio with actual actors with proper translations. I'm including Pioneer's dub here as they were a Japanese company who cared about their works' success worldwide & had a US branch with proper contacts to Japan, & the respect of Toei. Speaking of...Didnt you know that FUNi werent even getting translations done well from Toei? The intentional misrepresentation is insult to injury - the translation was already terrible. It is Toei who was in charge of this, & Toei who should have paid for a proper localization. They have several of THE biggest anime in the *world* - I'm sure they could have handled the project themselves. They set our localization up for failure because, as shown w/even Super's handling...they just arent that interested, believe it or not. I hate to say it, but they'd probably just have sold the characters to a US company to make their own cartoon (like Ape Escape, Sonic, various Nintendo cartoons, etc.), if they really wanted money off of us. That has proven more marketable & generally those cartoons hit a more mainstream audience than Japan-aimed animation.

It's a licensing company, & it was licensed to make *money* - Toei werent that interested in us as an audience. It is incredibly silly to expect one guy to do a "faithful dub" when there was barely any money for any sort of dub in the first place, & it's only through various partnerships that any dubs were even possible or produced. The licensing shouldnt have gone that way. This is frankly similar to the beef I have with fans who enjoy the Ocean dub. Great actors? Sure. But the point is, improvement aside...it wasnt meant to be that way in the first place. It's not the fault of Gen Fukunaga that he had no money (only getting to do any sort of dub w/Saban's money), like it's not Ian Corlett or Brian Drummond's fault that they were cast to misrepresent these characters (tho at least they were AAA pros, unlike "Schemmel" & "Sabat")As for the Pioneer dub, yes, I would have loved that sort of dub for DB, but they were a result of a partnership with Pioneer, &they apparently were *not* successful enough for Pioneer to continue them for the series, so they quit & left Fukunaga on his own - could've been avoided if *Toei*, the producers of the show, should've funded it in the first place, if they actually wanted DB to be (barf) dubbed!

* People who complain about DB's dub, arent usually doing it from the point of "I would like to view this show in English, & it frustrates me that I can't" - they're doing it because they want/believe/hope/think that mainstream kids will watch it as-is (& if not, who cares, as long as we get subbed 4:3 Blurays?) They are the sort of people who would rather watch it subbed anyway, & do so with virtually everything else. It seems silly that they ask for others to watch the show the way *they* wish to, when anime in general isnt even mainstream.They don't understand that Toei doesn't care about their audience, & just wants whatever money comes in. You do realize these are the same people that allowed 4Kids to do what they did to One Piece, & only retrieved the license because the sales werent good enough? (For the record, their castings were solid - it's the direction, heavy script rewrites, OST replacement, & silly character changes & visual edits, that make the whole package what it is).


* & I know that you dont care, but it's literally just dumb luck that led FUNi to being a "heavyweight". It is because they exclusively do cheap, non-union dubs, that they are *the* anime licensor. What great poetry, a company that got popular off of a shitty dub...stays profitable with shitty (but now usually accurate) dubs...that no one cares about. Beyond that, it wouldnt even matter because we'd all eventually watch the Japanese version. The dub is irrelevant & serves to make loads of money for Japan. As adult enthusiasts of a children's show, it is entirely unnecessary to have some silly "dub", & many of the major players on this site feels that way. Let the nostalgics enjoy their nostalgia FFS.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

The dub of DBZ was a dub of it's time. The dialogue and music feel like a dub of the 90's and early 2000's. Not to mention Funimation was dubbing the series to younger kids which is why we got such silly dailogue like Freeza saying "Pop goes the Weasel", Vegeta saying "Mondo Cool" and Yamucha said "Cat Loves Food". The dub of DBZ is not much different the dubs that Digimon, Pokemon and Sailor Moon had at the time.

It's a kids' show. & as for your first point...really? So if Fukunaga had intended to represent the show in line with, say, the dubs of Bebop, Berserk, Slayers, Fist of the North Star, Akira (2001), Big O, They Were Eleven, Lupin III (Streamline dubs), Pokemon (name changes but creator-approved & appropriate)...it wouldnt have sounded silly or rushed? Speaking of Pokemon, the dub is pretty damn respectful thanks to (this is important, & I wish there a loudspeaker or something here)the actual creators of the product being heavily involved in its casting & funding! Toei, take notes!

...

To be real with you...my main beef is that these complaints come from people who wouldnt care about whatever they did, if they did it properly, & don't care that it's the one anime that could make so much money for the Japanese product, because "meh, I really hate explaining/relating to dub casuals on the subject". Dubs can be a negative, but never a positive, to these people, & it seems to prove the point of some producers who think "Well, they'll just watch the subs anyway". & from the looks of many a DB YT'er...it seems to be the case. I mean, I don't think, say, Geekdom or Hail Zeon have seen the OPM or HxH dub, if you follow DB YT & catch my drift.

I personally am often irritated that I can't watch DB in English (the way I preferred to view Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Final Fantasy XIII, Resonance of Fate, Tiger & Bunny, Durarara, Fate/etc., Naruto, Bleach, Wolf's Rain, Haruhi, Samurai Champloo, Code Geass, most Ghibli, Nana, Kurozuka, Jin-Roh, GitS SAC, MHA, JJBA SC, Haibane Renmei, Hellsing Ultimate, Ergo Proxy, Gungrave, Paranoia Agent, Michiko & Hatchin, Golgo 13 Queen Bee, Tekkonkinkreet, Monster, ), because the castings (that includes, FTMP, Kai as well) are all simply made-up, & they still use **** like "Destructo Disk", ugh.

But what many folks are saying is "We didnt want all this extra, misinformation stuff" which I agree with. But hey, it made Toei tons of money & they knew that going in, which is why they signed off on it. Most Japanese-owned franchise *arent* made with Westerners in mind, there are some but DB isnt one of them, clearly. Why should we expect a decent release anyway, if Toei thinks (thought) an Americanized adaptation was preferable? I keep using those Sonic, Megaman, Nintendo, & other Japanese-video-game-based American cartoons with their AAA casts, that were generally more successful here than almost all anime put together - including the Japanese-aimed game anime.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Why should we expect a decent release anyway, if Toei thinks (thought) an Americanized adaptation was preferable?

We should expect a decent release because it's Funimation's job to put them out. Why do you expect the mailman to deliver all of your mail? Also, Toei couldn't care less what's "preferable", they approved it (and many other, worse dubs, by the way) because they knew it would make them profit, that's how corporations work.

[8000 Saiyan]

DB was heavily mistreated by Toei, what FUNi did...not gonna say it's a blessing, but it is a product of their situation, not "the time". Yes, such-&-such uber-popular anime got localized names & maybe cheap OST...but the *vast* majority of anime, believe it or not, were *not* handled by 4Kids, Saban, or early FUNimation.

The dub of DBZ was a dub of it's time. The dialogue and music feel like a dub of the 90's and early 2000's. Not to mention Funimation was dubbing the series to younger kids which is why we got such silly dailogue like Freeza saying "Pop goes the Weasel", Vegeta saying "Mondo Cool" and Yamucha said "Cat Loves Food". The dub of DBZ is not much different the dubs that Digimon, Pokemon and Sailor Moon had at the time.

It's a kids' show. & as for your first point...really? So if Fukunaga had intended to represent the show in line with, say, the dubs of Bebop, Berserk, Slayers, Fist of the North Star, Akira (2001), Big O, They Were Eleven, Lupin III (Streamline dubs), Pokemon (name changes but creator-approved & appropriate)...it wouldnt have sounded silly or rushed? Speaking of Pokemon, the dub is pretty damn respectful thanks to (this is important, & I wish there a loudspeaker or something here)the actual creators of the product being heavily involved in its casting & funding! Toei, take notes!

...

To be real with you...my main beef is that these complaints come from people who wouldnt care about whatever they did, if they did it properly, & don't care that it's the one anime that could make so much money for the Japanese product, because "meh, I really hate explaining/relating to dub casuals on the subject". Dubs can be a negative, but never a positive, to these people, & it seems to prove the point of some producers who think "Well, they'll just watch the subs anyway". & from the looks of many a DB YT'er...it seems to be the case. I mean, I don't think, say, Geekdom or Hail Zeon have seen the OPM or HxH dub, if you follow DB YT & catch my drift.

I personally am often irritated that I can't watch DB in English (the way I preferred to view Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Final Fantasy XIII, Resonance of Fate, Tiger & Bunny, Durarara, Fate/etc., Naruto, Bleach, Wolf's Rain, Haruhi, Samurai Champloo, Code Geass, most Ghibli, Nana, Kurozuka, Jin-Roh, GitS SAC, MHA, JJBA SC, Haibane Renmei, Hellsing Ultimate, Ergo Proxy, Gungrave, Paranoia Agent, Michiko & Hatchin, Golgo 13 Queen Bee, Tekkonkinkreet, Monster, ), because the castings (that includes, FTMP, Kai as well) are all simply made-up, & they still use **** like "Destructo Disk", ugh.

But what many folks are saying is "We didnt want all this extra, misinformation stuff" which I agree with. But hey, it made Toei tons of money & they knew that going in, which is why they signed off on it. Most Japanese-owned franchise *arent* made with Westerners in mind, there are some but DB isnt one of them, clearly. Why should we expect a decent release anyway, if Toei thinks (thought) an Americanized adaptation was preferable? I keep using those Sonic, Megaman, Nintendo, & other Japanese-video-game-based American cartoons with their AAA casts, that were generally more successful here than almost all anime put together - including the Japanese-aimed game anime.

It's getting even harder for me to take you seriously.

[VegettoEX]

It's getting even harder for me to take you seriously.

This is not an appropriate response. If you are not willing to engage with a user, do not respond to them. If a user finds that no-one responds to them, that should send them a very clear message.

[TheBlackPaladin]

However, Funimation were ultimately the ones who butchered the script, and could have made an accurate dub any time they wanted to. Nothing was stopping them, censorship issues being the exception.

Weeeeell, there were two other things.

1) Horrific translations. The English translations they got were provided by Toei, and they were absolutely abysmal, in some cases bordering on un-translatable. An example is in my sig if you're interested. Now, of course, a very valid counter-argument I've heard is that, while bad translations are a legitimate problem to creating a good dub script, it's also one that could have been solved pretty easily by FUNimation disregarding the Toei translations and paying for their own professional translator instead...which they did, thank you Steve Simmons. The problem was, back when they were dubbing DBZ using their in-house cast, they had deadlines from Toonami to worry about, as it's standard practice that a network has to review an episode and approve it before it's allowed to go on the air. Toei couldn't get the original Japanese audio to FUNimation in time for those deadlines, though, so they got their video and audio materials from the company that dubbed DBZ in Mexico. So they got the Japanese audio in time for the DVD release, but not in time for the Toonami network submission deadlines. On the other hand, the Spanish dub was overall very damn faithful, so one could also argue that translating the Spanish dub dialogue (and Spanish translators are infinitely easier to come by in the U.S. than Japanese translators) would still have been a better option than "winging it" with the Toei translations. So, this issue is kind of a grey area. What isn't a grey area, though, is this...

2) They weren't given much info on the show ahead of time. One of the problems with dubs back then--and not just English ones--is that a lot of dubbing companies were not given character bios or story descriptions in advance, and so they had to figure out the story and characters as they went along. Chris Sabat said that they originally got a bunch of pictures of DBZ characters with no names attached to them, so in the beginning, they were sorting though them like, "Umm...OK, so that's, that's Gohan....I guess that's Vegeta, and he's a sai--yeah, he's the prince of saiyans..." Sabat has since said many times that he was so grateful for the internet, because it was a blessing for his directing job in that he could go online and do research about the story and characters ahead of time.

So, censorship, horrible translations, and having to figure out the story and characters as they went along were the three big obstacles they faced in terms of making an accurate dub, and that's just dealing with issues of accuracy. Having low-end equipment, and people who weren't experienced with acting, directing, or adapting scripts made an already bad situation even worse. Thankfully, all of these issues have since been corrected. So, it's not really ironic to me that the dub is well-received now...with those issues out of the way, a significantly better dub is the expected--but nevertheless, very much appreciated--result. I have no doubt this will continue for the dub of Super, and I'm quite excited for it!

PS: As for why they didn't get more help from Toei, well...as it has been described to me, Toei viewed the show as more of a commercial for the toys and merchandise, where--to quote Mel Brooks--the real money is made. They sort of took the attitude of, "Why do you want the show? It's just the show." That's different from over here, where the show is not an advertisement for the main product, but rather, the show is the main product. I've read from other Kanzenshuuers that the English dub wasn't the only victim of this, as several other countries may have been provided the Toei English translations as well. It sounds like the only dubs where the translation was even somewhat faithful were dubs where the dubbing company went the extra mile and brought in their own translators.

[TheGreatness25]

I said it before in another thread and it's worth saying here too: We are the ones who care, but why would Funimation care about getting it "right" back then? When Dragon Ball landed in Funimation's offices, they never knew how popular it would be. I'm not sure about Funimation's case, but usually, a production company has several projects end up in front of them at one time. It's not like the executives sat there going, "Hm, fans will really, really dig this! Gotta do it right!" No, they just pumped it out and hoped it worked. Well Dragon Ball didn't work, but Z sure as hell did. So they kind of went by the formula that worked for them -- meaning the dub scripts, etc. We, the fans, are the ones who made this series a big deal and all you can ask from a production company is that when something takes off, that they polish it up and make it up to snuff for the fans. Would you argue that Funimation has not redeemed themselves in response to our love for the series? They released the Japanese audio with accurate subtitles on DVDs. Say what you will about their various releases, but they release the freakin' Z Dragon Box. And they obviously listened to the fans and made a highly-acclaimed dub for Kai. And guess what: They'll do it again for Super. I have zero doubts in my mind that Funimation will deliver Super damned near flawlessly.

Besides that point, don't look at Funimation and go, "Look at how they mistreated the series!" You're talking about a totally different Funimation. They have different directors, different writers, different everything because of their very high profits and experience. Where they once released a very unfaithful dub, now they have an entire app that bangs out some of the most critically-acclaimed anime out there -- and they do it right!

Don't hold it against Funimation that they never went back to re-record Dragon Ball - GT; that ship has sailed. It wouldn't justify their costs to create that kind of novelty since the fans of the Japanese version wouldn't budge and the dub fans are satisfied with what they have. This idea is moot since they have so much new material to cover.

Basically today's Funimation is totally different, so don't dismiss them just because of what they did with the series roughly 15 years ago.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

...while bad translations are a legitimate problem to creating a good dub script, it's also one that could have been solved pretty easily by FUNimation disregarding the Toei translations and paying for their own professional translator instead...which they did, thank you Steve Simmons. The problem was, back when they were dubbing DBZ using their in-house cast, they had deadlines from Toonami to worry about...

Still they managed to adapt those bad translations into a workable script. More than that, even, they added in tons of extra dialogue. I'm willing to bet that that time could have gone into better translation, and come out on schedule, but what do I know?

On the other hand, the Spanish dub was overall very damn faithful, so one could also argue that translating the Spanish dub dialogue (and Spanish translators are infinitely easier to come by in the U.S. than Japanese translators) would still have been a better option than "winging it" with the Toei translations...

Exactly my sentiment. Many of the European dubs did this and succeeded (albeit with a much worse source, but that's hardly the point).

2) They weren't given much info on the show ahead of time. One of the problems with dubs back then--and not just English ones--is that a lot of dubbing companies were not given character bios or story descriptions in advance, and so they had to figure out the story and characters as they went along. Chris Sabat said that they originally got a bunch of pictures of DBZ characters with no names attached to them, so in the beginning, they were sorting though them like, "Umm...OK, so that's, that's Gohan....I guess that's Vegeta, and he's a sai--yeah, he's the prince of saiyans..." Sabat has since said many times that he was so grateful for the internet, because it was a blessing for his directing job in that he could go online and do research about the story and characters ahead of time.

So, censorship, horrible translations, and having to figure out the story and characters as they went along were the three big obstacles they faced in terms of making an accurate dub, and that's just dealing with issues of accuracy. Having low-end equipment, and people who weren't experienced with acting, directing, or adapting scripts made an already bad situation even worse. Thankfully, all of these issues have since been corrected. So, it's not really ironic to me that the dub is well-received now...with those issues out of the way, a significantly better dub is the expected--but nevertheless, very much appreciated--result. I have no doubt this will continue for the dub of Super, and I'm quite excited for it!

I sympathize with this wholeheartedly, but it doesn't excuse the job that was done. Besides, there were already 2 decently made Seasons in English for them to reference if they had lacked a sense of the characters.

I won't go on a tirade about the dub, because nothing I can say hasn't been said before, but also because I don't care anymore. However, I do care about something, I care about the conversation. If we're going to talk about the old dub, as is sometimes inevitable, I want it to be honest. I don't want anyone to make it out to be worse than it was, and I don't want anyone to pretend that it was totally passable, I want it to be judged for how it is.

I said it before in another thread and it's worth saying here too: We are the ones who care, but why would Funimation care about getting it "right" back then? When Dragon Ball landed in Funimation's offices, they never knew how popular it would be.

I don't think it matters how popular it is, but that hardly matters as to the actual state of things. What I really want to note is that Dragon Ball had succeeded worldwide by the time Funimation started dubbing "Season 3", so they should have had some indication that it would succeed.

[TheGreatness25]

I've heard them say many times that they never knew how popular it was going to become. Again, they had to pump it out to how they felt it should be done and that's what they did. Like Power Rangers (also as I mentioned in another thread), do you think they cared about making it faithful? They just did it how they did it and it worked. Don't say "that's different," because I really don't think their thought process was different at all.

[Danfun64]

I still would like to know what scripts the Funi/Ocean/Saban and Funi/Ocean/Pioneer dubs used, and how much of a downgrade the scripts for Season 3 were from Saban's dub, if they were a downgrade at all.

Also, even Power Rangers had seasons where it was faithful to the Sentai...https://powerrangersunion.blogspot.com/ ... -good.html

[huzaifa_ahmed]

I posted this in Super's thread, but I want to hear more opinions on this, particularly now that Super's dub is confirmed:

Man, its so surreal to see hardcore Dragonball fans get excited about a FUNimation dub of the anime. I mean I expect this from casuals who grew up with the dub on Toonami/Cartoon Network, but here on kazenshuu its so weird after the dub and its voice cast was so vehemently hated for years. Even just a few years ago people wouldn't be caught dead saying they like the dub.

Its so funny what a difference a single decade can make. I guess we're not in the early 2000's anymore. How times change.

No, we're in the subtitled streaming era, & everyone watches subs for new anime, & all the very faithful & very well-performed old TV-aired dubs (Naruto, Bleach, etc.) that were popular..were replaced with watching subs, DBZ being an exception because the dub is a vastly different show. In a way, the dub producers who said "hardcore fans will watch subs anyway, let's make our own show" were proven correct.

[I suppose, as VegettoEX says, that simulcasted subs are better in that they are *way* cheaper (nearly free), less possibility of mistranslation, & reduce piracy (significantly).]

Don't get me wrong, I am glad & proud that a largely (eh, 75-85%)-accurate version of DB (Z, at least) was broadcast to a decent niche & was significantly successful. But the matter of why the recent dubs get recognition is, in no small part, based in the fact that the old dub was successful, & (whether I like it or not) introduced many of us, many Kanzenshuu members included, to the franchise.

But let's not kid ourselves in thinking we'd care this much about a "straight" dub that, while done cheaply & without a ton of promotion by the original company (aka ala Pokemon) would've been successful. We dislike the old dub for not giving a proper representation to a massive amount of people, & it doesnt matter when this sort of dub fails, or if a good dub is unsuccessful or behind the sub.

* If DB's dub were altered & a failure, no one'd care - we'd make jokes about it, & that's it, a la One Piece. If DB's dub were a success, yet were done only by FUNi & no Toei/TV backing? We'd switch to subs ala Naruto/Bleach.* As Dbzfan94 said, the Naruto dub, while great, didnt get enough airtime to constantly be updated with either the Japanese or especially the manga. So we switched to subs anyway. It didnt matter that the dub had the biggest budget of most dubs, & was also incredibly faithful in casting & script.

(In general, people don't care how good a localization is, or why it's "bad", if it is actually bad. We whine when it's bad, & take it for granted when it's good)

Dubs only matter when they introduce us, & further if they stay current. DBZ's dub only has stayed prominent for so long because it was so massive & yes, because it was so different. There is a significant majority of reddit/anime (& shamefully, animedubs) which either say (in the former's case) DBZ is the only dub I''ll watch, & in the case of both, DBZ is a show I can only watch the dub for. Kai's dub is genius in the sense that it maintains those old incorrect dub voices, for a smoother transition to an accurate version of the show. I suppose I can't blame FUNi for, say, not recasting most of the old dub (altho keeping the old terms/spellings is something that still confuses me, & occasionally the script is too off for my tastes).

[TheGreatness25]

Personally, I'm glad that I will get a version that will stay faithful where I can understand it and not have to read the screen. Sometimes I don't want to pay 100% to what's going on and just have it in the background. Or if there's action on the screen, I'd like to watch the screen. I'd be good with not watching subbed Super at all. If it was a case where the dub would be so drastically different than the original, obviously my opinion would change, but I have to say that I never to this day watched a Japanese version of Kai past the first Blu-ray that they released. I watched the dub and then watched the Japanese version and it was basically the same thing (obviously the voices sounded different), which turned me off from the Japanese version. While I hold the Japanese version of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT to such a high standard and will always love it, I simply don't need the Japanese voices for the new material because not only do I feel that they don't live up to the ones in the past, but because the new material doesn't give me that nostalgic pull.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Personally, I'm glad that I will get a version that will stay faithful where I can understand it and not have to read the screen. Sometimes I don't want to pay 100% to what's going on and just have it in the background. Or if there's action on the screen, I'd like to watch the screen.

I've always thought of it as "usual anime/game/film performances assume you actually understand what's being said. The same impact just isnt there when the words dont really hit you." I personally get bored/detached after watching something (like Asian live-action films) in a different language for so long. I made an exception for HxH as I was one of the few who read the manga back when Viz was releasing them - a year or two before I knew who, say, Keiji Fujiwara was (in fact I found Leorio's voice a little too gravelly/old-sounding).

But most anime fans have gotten accustomed to this, & we're a minority. It's less of a thing in games, which are harder to "fansub", & heck, they have a Japanese-owned avenue that makes (often big-budget) dubs financially worthwhile. Ironicly, for myself, when there's a dub-only release of a game, I feel cheated as if it's an edited release, & will actively search out the original audio track. I've even watched much of MGS1 raw+script translations to avoid the dub.

I'd be good with not watching subbed Super at all. If it was a case where the dub would be so drastically different than the original, obviously my opinion would change, but I have to say that I never to this day watched a Japanese version of Kai past the first Blu-ray that they released. I watched the dub and then watched the Japanese version and it was basically the same thing (obviously the voices sounded different), which turned me off from the Japanese version.

Heresy! lol

I generally find the JP VAs themselves both superior as well as closer to Toriyama's - not because they were the first to record, or that the dub came years later, & that replacing a performance changest the art - but because the dub was cast to misrepresent the show, & Toei basicly threw away the license because they are bumbling idiots who didnt get/care how these things work. I think JP Kai is better, but i only truly care because I'm a massive VA fan (I use this same name on Behind the Voice Actors) & I listen to the JP track to get a feel of the best of JP VO. - If it were a low-budget, non-union production, I wouldnt really care about it just because it's "the original". If it were crap, I wouldnt defend it. Like I bash FUNi for not paying better (even today) for DB's dubs.

While I hold the Japanese version of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT to such a high standard and will always love it, I simply don't need the Japanese voices for the new material because not only do I feel that they don't live up to the ones in the past, but because the new material doesn't give me that nostalgic pull.

Well, I suppose that fans of dubs in general wouldnt be exempt from the nostalgia that goes with the DB dubs. I have this with Yugioh, Megaman NT Warrior/Rockman.EXE, & (for original ENglish-language shows) X-Men Evolution & Batman Beyond. Kirby Morrow *is* Cyclops to me, Conroy is Batman, only Andrew Francis can be Megaman (couldnt imagine otherwise, Dan Green as Yugi, etc.

S'pose I gotta git gud & watch the sub, eh?