Power levels don't matter, but...

[Regarder]

Strength has to in a story about fighting and becoming more and more powerful. If characters can be arbitrarily strong at any one time, then what exactly does it even mean for a villain to be strong or dangerous? What does Super Saiyan Blue even mean? Why is it special? And what exactly was the purpose of SS Rose writing wise?

I'm finding the whole progression of things in this story to be underwhelming, because SSB doesn't seem to mean anything, and Zamasu merging means something and then it suddenly doesn't and so on. Power levels are dumb, but that didn't stop the Cell and Buu saga having clear progressions to things where if the enemy got stronger it meant something and then the heroes would have to find a new form or do fusion or whatever.

Now obviously characters have always powered up from anger, but it wasn't as arbitrary and haphazard as this, and mainly it was just Gohan who had a pre-existing weird aspect about him. I guess everyone has that. Instead of Saiyans getting stronger after being injured, they just constantly get stronger and stronger during fights, completely sapping any tension from fights about how they are going to find a way to get stronger than the enemy.

[HybridSaiyan]

They still haven't made it clear why SSJB is stronger than SSJ2 and 3 either. The new Trunks form seems stronger than SSJB too!

SSJ3 Goku got stomped by Beerus on King Kai's planet right? Well after he absorbed the god ki, wouldn't he be stronger with his SSJ3 too? He fought Beerus as a SSJ in Space only because he adjusted to the god Ki.

Gohan went from Ultimate to no longer being able to maintain SSJ for long in like 6 months? Piccolo is apparently back too Dodoria and Zarbon tier when he outmatched second form Frieza, imperfect Cell and 17.

Zamasu who is no stronger than SSJ2 just merged with another Zamusu in Goku's body and will probably be on even terms with SSJB Vegito lol.

Power levels are irrelevant to Super.

It was always SSJ2 being stronger than 1 and SSJ3 being stronger than 2.

[Lord Beerus]

They still haven't made it clear why SSJB is stronger than SSJ2 and 3 either.

Because "Godly Ki". That's the reason.

[HybridSaiyan]

They still haven't made it clear why SSJB is stronger than SSJ2 and 3 either.

Because "Godly Ki". That's the reason.

So Trunks has this "Godly Ki?" His new form gives hints that it's superior to SSJB.

[Fishman]

You could recolor Super Saiyan Blue to the ordinary Super Saiyan colors and the show would be exactly the same. It's a device to justify Goku and later Vegeta being the only useful characters (which they never really had any trouble doing before anyway), while also having something """new""" about the series.

However, Super Saiyan Blue is stronger than the ordinary Super Saiyan forms because it's an evolved state of Super Saiyan God, which itself was needlessly exponentially stronger than anything else ever. God ki is in itself basically just there to artificially inflate characters, and Blue is the form they use to signify that on-screen.

Trunks' bootleg Super Saiyan Blue form is also largely just him magically anger-boosting all the way to Super Saiyan Blue level for convenience. Maybe they didn't think they could get away with Trunks actually gaining the real form overnight (surprising, given the logical suspension of disbelief they expect from the audience to get through the rest of this silly arc). Or maybe they didn't want a character to transform and keep the same hair color. Gee, I wonder what they could or couldn't have chosen to do to prevent that from being a problem.

[fadeddreams5]

Power levels and power scaling do in fact matter in keeping a series like this cohesive and consistent. That's literally what this show is all about.

The fact that they're getting away with any saiyan obtaining god power by screaming really loud--no previous special training included--as well as villains training for 4 months to obtain this same level of power, is a downright insult to the intellect of anybody who watched the previous shows. Any non-DB fan would mock this fanbase for being fans of a show where grown men scream really loud to get stronger, ignoring every other development in the story. Well, now, they're right. That's literally what can happen in the show now that they retconned Gohan's hidden powers into a general saiyan "anger" trait. No explanations even given to new forms like Trunks'. The writers are like, "just go with it." lol.

[LightBing]

This is the main reason why I didn't enjoy the last episode that much. There's no tension at all because the writers don't bother it with.
Goku and Vegeta got beaten to the point of powering down to base, which always meant they're defeated. Yet, give them 3 minutes and they're up again competing with someone who should be well above them.

The fight's turn meaningless: damage doesn't matter, anger is now the solution to everything, we don't know how strong characters are in relation to one another, etc...

The writing in this arc - regarding the topic in hand - is the main culprit for this arc failing to compete with the better arcs of this series, in my opinion.

I hope the manga doesn't do the same mistake and I hope we can compare both mediums when all is finished.

[Muffin Man]

Part of the problem is that BoG needlessly boosted Goku's non-SSG forms to ridiculous levels. There was no good reason to boost them at all, just keep SSG as a new form that Goku can use when he needs to and leave his other forms alone. But for whatever reason they chose to boost his base (and therefore everything else) way past SS3. Then RoF added SSB on top of that, and now Super is having a hell of a time staying consistent with those ridiculously huge leaps in power.

Another part of the problem is that the non-movie-based parts of Super, ironically enough, are being written like the old movies in the sense that the heroes are never allowed to progress. They are static in how they relate to each other except when they become temporarily stronger due to a contrivance or inconsistency (but even then it's always vague as to how strong they actually are). In DBZ when Goku returned from his training with King Kai we knew exactly how he stacked up compared to everyone else and to himself back against Radditz. We were never like "Well I think Goku's a lot stronger than he was against Radditz but I'm not sure how much stronger he is than Piccolo or if he's weaker than Vegeta and man I wish they would clarify whether or not Gohan is actually anywhere in Goku's league and if he's getting rage boosts or not".

Super needs to start allowing consistent, well defined power progression to happen so that we can actually feel like the heroes are getting somewhere and that the threats are actually escalating.

[PsionicWarrior]

Power levels DO matter and the fact Super is neglecting them 100% is part of what makes it not standing up quite straight lol

[GodVegetto91]

I agree with the OP.

But the biggest problem here is Trunks and Vegeta winning in a beam struggle against freaking Merged Zamasu! A potara fused being! And now even SSJ Blue Goku! Who did even better than Vegeta and Trunks combined! And here i thought Vegeta surpassed Goku... This is what is wrong with Super.!

[MCDaveG]

But why? In a series for kids, it doesn't make any sense.
Every character is as strong as the script governs it. Dragon Ball never worked on any strict guidelines.
It just fans, they are making their charts and stuff up based on character's lines and logic, but there is no intertwined guideline... In GT, Goku just says that Rildo is as strong as Majin Buu, which simply means: ''Hey, kids, this threat is big, because you remember Buu? That bubblegum villain that was so strong that it took almost 100 episodes to beat him? Well, this guy, is as strong as him!''

So every fan question like: ''Why can Gotenks do this, when he did that in last episode?'' Are irrelevant, because the strength of characters is abstract, based on script.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I'm indifferent to battle power consistency as long as fights are interesting, well-choreographed and animated. Trunks arc has some cool fights and it makes up for whatever inconsistencies it has in the battle power department.

For example, I like the Fourth Shinobi War arc in Naruto which is pretty much considered an abomination among fans mostly cause of power scaling reaching maximum levels of bullshit, but I don't care cause the majority of the fights were awesome with great animated sequences and direction.

Entertainment>Battle power consistency, but that's just me.

[Saturnine]

Powerlevels aren't dumb, and strength does matter.

The problem is incompetent writers who cannot follow simple precepts of the universe they're writing in. Also, filler.

[WhatsUpPigeons]

Even though its not possible, after the fight I want Goku to ask Trunks:
"Hey Trunks what was that form you used?"
Trunks:"I don't know my father gave me his ki"

Flashback:*Vegeta transferring god ki to his son while training*

[Shinomori]

I think focusing on power levels in this series is very irrelevant to tell you the truth. Think about it, God ki is supposed to be the next frontier, and yet Frieza was able to surpass it after a few months of training. I don't care how special a fighter Frieza is, having a power level in the millions without even training a day in his life, he shouldn't be able to surpass God ki. Hit, who again wasn't using God ki, could keep up with Goku and probably could have killed him if he was using his full technique.

Shoot, we don't know how strong Beerus is, and yet we already know there are a multitude of fighters that are way stronger than him. (Which very possibly might include Merged Zamasu and Vegito. Whis said himself if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they could defeat Beerus.) All of this is a far cry from Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, which had a more stable system in determining strength, particularly during the sagas that included the scouter.

[ckal9]

To me, the solution is for god ki to be removed from Goku and Vegeta. I've had this thought since the BoG movie was released. God ki is so convoluted, increasingly so as the series moves on. These characters were made far too powerful and it resulted in problems with the story telling. However, it is clever their power boost comes from god ki. Removing this will bring their power levels back to reasonable levels, and can start again on a more interesting path.

[HybridSaiyan]

To me, the solution is for god ki to be removed from Goku and Vegeta. I've had this thought since the BoG movie was released. God ki is so convoluted, increasingly so as the series moves on. These characters were made far too powerful and it resulted in problems with the story telling. However, it is clever their power boost comes from god ki. Removing this will bring their power levels back to reasonable levels, and can start again on a more interesting path.

Hence, DBGT. LOL.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Power Levels and strenght matter shit in a series that has been giving a shit about strenght and power level "consistency" long before the new material, just look how Bu Arc Goku with a PL of dont know how many shit gajillions struggle to move with 40 tons when he used to have a 2 digit PL he could lift a car (which tend to average 2 tons)

[ckal9]

To me, the solution is for god ki to be removed from Goku and Vegeta. I've had this thought since the BoG movie was released. God ki is so convoluted, increasingly so as the series moves on. These characters were made far too powerful and it resulted in problems with the story telling. However, it is clever their power boost comes from god ki. Removing this will bring their power levels back to reasonable levels, and can start again on a more interesting path.

Hence, DBGT. LOL.

Hey sorry I don't quite understand your reply. Can you explain?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

They still haven't made it clear why SSJB is stronger than SSJ2 and 3 either.

Because "Godly Ki". That's the reason.

So Trunks has this "Godly Ki?" His new form gives hints that it's superior to SSJB.

It is not hinted at all, Trunks came to the battlefield and exploded in anger as mentioned by the Kioshin but like when he used that weird form before, it didn't exactly do much and he ended up doing as little as Goku and Vegeta in the end anyway, hell he still needed help form Vegeta to deflect Zamasu ki mega super fire blast away. To me it is a form that works of rage but the power doesn't last long.