Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Physical power doesn't need to be noted if it's shown that he got faster and more durable.

Goku never said Hit got faster, only his Time-Skip got longer. And in Dragon Ball power = durable, unless you're Freeza.

[Helios518]

Physical power doesn't need to be noted if it's shown that he got faster and more durable.

Goku never said Hit got faster, only his Time-Skip got longer. And in Dragon Ball power = durable, unless you're Freeza.

Let me repeat what I just said. "Physical power doesn't need to be noted if it's shown that he got faster and more durable."

[HeroR]

Let me repeat what I just said. "Physical power doesn't need to be noted if it's shown that he got faster and more durable."

If the characters don't acknowledge an increase in power, speed, ect, it isn't there. This like people insisting that Piccolo was as strong as base form Goku during the Champa Saga based on his performance against Hit, despite no one saying a thing about Piccolo's power increasing since the last time he fought. The only thing noted about Hit was that his Time-Skip increased, nothing else.

[Helios518]

Let me repeat what I just said. "Physical power doesn't need to be noted if it's shown that he got faster and more durable."

If the characters don't acknowledge an increase in power, speed, ect, it isn't there. This like people insisting that Piccolo was as strong as base form Goku during the Champa Saga based on his performance against Hit, despite no one saying a thing about Piccolo's power increasing since the last time he fought. The only thing noted about Hit was that his Time-Skip increased, nothing else.

Piccolo didn't show performance that he increased immensely unlike Hit, You still can't explain why Hit could react and take SSJBKKx10 Goku's attack.

[HeroR]

Piccolo didn't show performance that he increased immensely unlike Hit, You still can't explain why Hit could react and take SSJBKKx10 Goku's attack.

Piccolo was able to move around Frost who was even or stronger to Goku's base form. The same base form that took on Freeza's true form and easily beat him, while Piccolo got murdered by first form Freeza while he was in his easy chair.

Hit didn't react, Goku beat him us using the Kaioken. Hit only got his edge back because his Time-Skip increased. Even then, Goku said that Hit would never touch him again after he asked for the no-kill rule to be dropped. Never once did anyone said that Hit's overall power and speed increased.

[Helios518]

Piccolo didn't show performance that he increased immensely unlike Hit, You still can't explain why Hit could react and take SSJBKKx10 Goku's attack.

Piccolo was able to move around Frost who was even or stronger to Goku's base form. The same base form that took on Freeza's true form and easily beat him, while Piccolo got murdered by first form Freeza while he was in his easy chair.

Hit didn't react, Goku beat him us using the Kaioken. Hit only got his edge back because his Time-Skip increased. Even then, Goku said that Hit would never touch him again after he asked for the no-kill rule to be dropped. Never once did anyone said that Hit's overall power and speed increased.

Frost power could've been weakened like Freeza, he said that he only used the form once and on top of that got beaten up.

Again, if Hit's speed and durability didn't increase then he would've got speed blitzed with no time to use Tokitobashi and one shotted. You're not answering me on why that didn't happened despite you saying none of that increased.

[HeroR]

Frost power could've been weakened like Freeza, he said that he only used the form once and on top of that got beaten up.

Again, if Hit's speed and durability didn't increase then he would've got speed blitzed with no time to use Tokitobashi and one shotted. You're not answering me on why that didn't happened despite you saying none of that increased.

Frost is a lair, so nothing he says should be taken as fact. He was weakened by beating up by Goku, but I doubt he has the same stamina issues as Freeza.

He didn't speed blitzed Goku. Every time he tried to out-speed Goku without his Time-Skip, he failed miserably. Also, the Time-Skip seems to work independent of his speed since he just looks and the person is frozen.

[Helios518]

Frost power could've been weakened like Freeza, he said that he only used the form once and on top of that got beaten up.

Again, if Hit's speed and durability didn't increase then he would've got speed blitzed with no time to use Tokitobashi and one shotted. You're not answering me on why that didn't happened despite you saying none of that increased.

Frost is a lair, so nothing he says should be taken as fact. He was weakened by beating up by Goku, but I doubt he has the same stamina issues as Freeza.

He didn't speed blitzed Goku. Every time he tried to out-speed Goku without his Time-Skip, he failed miserably. Also, the Time-Skip seems to work independent of his speed since he just looks and the person is frozen.

There's zero reason to lie about that. Also just because you lie once it doesn't make every statement a lie.

I didn't say he speed blitzed Goku. I'm saying even with an improved Tokitobashi, if nothing else got improved, then he should've been blitzed and oneshotted by Goku which again didn't happen and he was taking and reacting to his attacks just fine.

[HeroR]

There's zero reason to lie about that. Also just because you lie once it doesn't make every statement a lie.

I didn't say he speed blitzed Goku. I'm saying even with an improved Tokitobashi, if nothing else got improved, then he should've been blitzed and oneshotted by Goku which again didn't happen and he was taking and reacting to his attacks just fine.

Frost claimed that he doesn't used his true form because he accidentally killed an evildoer because he couldn't control his power. Given what Frost does, how true do you think that is and he never said he had stamina issues. Also, Frost is a consummated lair who plays hero, while starting wars that murder people. I see no reason why I should take anything he says as fact.

Goku did blitzed him and succeeded until the Time-Skip improved. If nothing else, Hit is durable, just like Freeza was durable despite being inferior to Super Saiyan Goku and survived a planet exploding on him despite having next to no ki left. So Hit can be a tank, without his actual power going up.

[Helios518]

There's zero reason to lie about that. Also just because you lie once it doesn't make every statement a lie.

I didn't say he speed blitzed Goku. I'm saying even with an improved Tokitobashi, if nothing else got improved, then he should've been blitzed and oneshotted by Goku which again didn't happen and he was taking and reacting to his attacks just fine.

Frost claimed that he doesn't used his true form because he accidentally killed an evildoer because he couldn't control his power. Given what Frost does, how true do you think that is and he never said he had stamina issues. Also, Frost is a consummated lair who plays hero, while starting wars that murder people. I see no reason why I should take anything he says as fact.

Goku did blitzed him and succeeded until the Time-Skip improved. If nothing else, Hit is durable, just like Freeza was durable despite being inferior to Super Saiyan Goku and survived a planet exploding on him despite having next to no ki left. So Hit can be a tank, without his actual power going up.

And for some reason, Frost is never seen or felt with his True form till now despite fighting in wars. He has as much as reason as Freeza to use his True Form infrequently.

If Goku could actually blitz Hit then Hit would again never have the chance to use Tokitobashi regardless if the Tokitobashi improved a billion times over. Durable or not, One of Goku's punches should send Hit flying so fast he would get ringed out just like Vegeta did to Frost.

[HeroR]

And for some reason, Frost is never seen or felt with his True form till now despite fighting in wars. He has as much as reason as Freeza to use his True Form infrequently.

If Goku could actually blitz Hit then Hit would again never have the chance to use Tokitobashi regardless if the Tokitobashi improved a billion times over. Durable or not, One of Goku's punches should send Hit flying so fast he would get ringed out just like Vegeta did to Frost.

We only seen a still shot of Frost in his first and third forms. And he probably don't used his true form since he's so powerful he doesn't used it often, like Goku doesn't used his Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form except when he's forced to. And again, since Frost is a lair who plays hero, he isn't a creditable source for anything.

That is all your assumption that one of Goku's punches would send Hit flying, especially since we know crap about Hit's species and how durable they are. And again, we have seen that Hit's Time-Skip seems to work outside of his own speed since despite Goku's superior speed to Hit before the Time Skip improved, Goku couldn't stop him from using it. What gave Goku the edge was his speed mixed with him predicting Hit's moments.

[Helios518]

And for some reason, Frost is never seen or felt with his True form till now despite fighting in wars. He has as much as reason as Freeza to use his True Form infrequently.

If Goku could actually blitz Hit then Hit would again never have the chance to use Tokitobashi regardless if the Tokitobashi improved a billion times over. Durable or not, One of Goku's punches should send Hit flying so fast he would get ringed out just like Vegeta did to Frost.

We only seen a still shot of Frost in his first and third forms. And he probably don't used his true form since he's so powerful he doesn't used it often, like Goku doesn't used his Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form except when he's forced to. And again, since Frost is a lair who plays hero, he isn't a creditable source for anything.

That is all your assumption that one of Goku's punches would send Hit flying, especially since we know crap about Hit's species and how durable they are. And again, we have seen that Hit's Time-Skip seems to work outside of his own speed since despite Goku's superior speed to Hit before the Time Skip improved, Goku couldn't stop him from using it. What gave Goku the edge was his speed mixed with him predicting Hit's moments.

Exactly like Freeza who had stamina issues because he rarely used his 4th form.

Frost is of Freeza's race (Super Durable) and he still went flying from SSJ Vegeta's attack. Also exactly, we know crap about Hit's race so you have to assume Hit is as durable as every other race and not the outliers of races which you conveniently picks. Also Tokitobashi works outside of Hit's speed but he still needs to activate which doesn't work outside of his speed like pulling the trigger on a gun.

[Bullza]

The manga explained it a lot better. Basically Time Skip doesn't fully work on opponents stronger than Hit.

It was straightforward in the manga but different in the anime.

At first Goku and Hit fought and Goku was the superior of the two which is why Hit had to use time skip and then he was able to freeze him. So it still works on opponents who are stronger unlike the manga.

Goku used Kaioken and now the time skip didn't work and he wasn't able to freeze him. However afterward Hit extending how long he can stop time somehow also meant he could stop him though he was still weaker.

Hit doesn't become physical stronger. He only improves his Time-Skip. In fact, Hit explicitly said that he can't become stronger like a Saiyan, but he has improvement.

Well he said he couldn't transform to get stronger. Most of the focus of him keeping up with Goku was in him improving his time skip so maybe he was weaker than SSJB Goku but he was just able to take a barrage of attacks from Kaioken x10 anyhow for some reason.

[Marlowe89]

In the manga, Hit's Time-Skip wasn't completely rendered defunct when Goku overpowered him, the duration of time he could stop just decreased to less than what it should've been. Presumably the stronger Goku becomes in relation to Hit, the less time Hit can stop.

As far as I recall, nothing in the anime necessarily contradicted that. After Goku transformed into Super Saiyan Blue (which makes him stronger than Hit), Hit's ability wasn't successful anymore until he improved its duration. Then when Goku used Kaioken, he became so much stronger than Hit that he couldn't freeze him at all until further improving the Time-Skip.

They could very well have the same mechanics in both versions; the manga just explained it more eloquently.

[Bullza]

Here's a question for people then. Who wins these two fights.

Hit not using the timeskip or his killing techniques vs Golden Frieza

Hit using the timeskip and using killing techniques vs Super Saiyan Rose Black

I'd figure Golden Frieza would probably win the first one otherwise Goku and Vegeta would have to significantly improve since the RoF saga and I don't think they were supposed to.

As for the other one, I know we haven't seen Hits killing techniques but he was strong enough to go up against Goku using the Kaioken, he was weaker but he was holding his own. I don't think Black would be as powerful as that but he might not have to be because he isn't going to have that strain on him.

[Helios518]

Here's a question for people then. Who wins these two fights.

Hit not using the timeskip or his killing techniques vs Golden Frieza

Hit using the timeskip and using killing techniques vs Super Saiyan Rose Black

I'd figure Golden Frieza would probably win the first one otherwise Goku and Vegeta would have to significantly improve since the RoF saga and I don't think they were supposed to.

As for the other one, I know we haven't seen Hits killing techniques but he was strong enough to go up against Goku using the Kaioken, he was weaker but he was holding his own. I don't think Black would be as powerful as that but he might not have to be because he isn't going to have that strain on him.

This probably goes for the all-purpose versus thread but might as well answer anyway.

1) Hit only wins if he could hold out against Freeza long enough for his power to drop, so his chances of winning are similar to RoF SSJB Goku.

2) Hit using Tokitobashi + Killing techniques is way too much for Black too handle. Black could improve but then Hit would improve at a equal if not faster rate.

[Bullza]

Yeah I could see Hit being able to freeze him because he could freeze Goku using Kaioken and Black is likely weaker but if he gave him a beating then Black would only get stronger, possibly to a point where Hit could no longer freeze him so Black would start beating him around but then Hit might extend his time skip so it could just go around in circles.

Unless depending on what Blacks killing techniques are he just outright kills Black immediately if he's able to do that against someone whose much more powerful.

[Hugo Boss]

I think Goku and Vegeta in Champa Arc are at least stronger than Freeza, given the motivation they had like the idea of Monaka being much stronger than them and a goal to Goku, while Vegeta couldn't alow to be surpassed by Goku.

In Zamasu Arc, Goku, Vegeta and Black powered-up so many times that is difficult to imagine them weaker than Hit. Maybe Black could see through Tokitobashi after being beat down a lot. We don't know the extent of Hit's true power, but I don't think he is that much stronger than Goku in Champa Arc.

[buutenks]

I dont see how can someone say Freeza has special durability. The guy got fodderzied by ssj Trunks' sword and he got vaporized by ssj blue Goku's Kameha. The only reason he seemed so durable in the namek saga is because his Pl was huge at that point. But the moment he bumped into someone stronger than him, he got murdered just like any other character.

And Hit not being koed by kkx10, pretty much shows that he is insanely powerful.

The only characters with special durability r those with regeneration.

[HeroR]

I dont see how can someone say Freeza has special durability. The guy got fodderzied by ssj Trunks' sword and he got vaporized by ssj blue Goku's Kameha. The only reason he seemed so durable in the namek saga is because his Pl was huge at that point. But the moment he bumped into someone stronger than him, he got murdered just like any other character.

And Hit not being koed by kkx10, pretty much shows that he is insanely powerful.

The only characters with special durability r those with regeneration.

Freeza survived a planet that exploded on him after he was cut into quarters and blasted by Goku, without a healing factor. Most would be dead, especially since he had little to no ki left.