Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Sailor Haumea]

I really think it's an error, but anyone's free to go with one of the other explanations, should they want to keep everything strictly in-universe.

So, can I take this as a mistake made by Toriyama? And in Cell's timeline, Goku was the one who defeated Freeza and Cold?

Maybe?

Or maybe Goku killing Frieza and Cold in Trunks's timeline was a lie. Wouldn't surprise me if either Bulma made that up to avoid discouraging Trunks or Trunks made it up to avoid discouraging the Z-Fighters.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I really think it's an error, but anyone's free to go with one of the other explanations, should they want to keep everything strictly in-universe.

So, can I take this as a mistake made by Toriyama? And in Cell's timeline, Goku was the one who defeated Freeza and Cold?

Maybe?

Or maybe Goku killing Frieza and Cold in Trunks's timeline was a lie. Wouldn't surprise me if either Bulma made that up to avoid discouraging Trunks or Trunks made it up to avoid discouraging the Z-Fighters.

That's not in-character for them. Even if it were, it would have been elaborated upon later. In reality, it was a mistake, but feel free to settle with whichever roundabout headcanon that helps you sleep at night.

[Robo4900]

Re: Above: That "Cell Games" bit in the "unseen" timeline makes absolutely no sense. It comes from a Daizenshuu tidbit, and I think they were totally trippin'. They'd have to occur more than twenty years after they do in the main timeline, when that timeline's Cell is done developing, and they'd only be a threat if the androids weren't defeated and he still managed to absorb them. It is a massively weird detail to include.

Agreed. This mysterious fourth timeline has very low relevance(It isn't Cell's timeline, Trunks's timeline, or the main timeline), so we haven't seen much of it, but as far as we know, Cell was alive in that timeline(If Cell-timeline Trunks knew about Cell, he would have stopped him, Cell would have never gone back in time, and the Cell Games would have never happened). However, 17 and 18 would have been defeated(Otherwise Trunks wouldn't have returned to Cell's timeline), and it's possible the Buu arc had already happened by the time Cell emerged, so -- since he'd only be in his base form -- he would likely be dealt with pretty easily.

Thinking on it... I wonder if Piccolo and Kami would have ever merged in this fourth timeline...? Goku would have been cured of the virus before the Androids showed up, the Androids would be weaker(I remember Trunks saying the main timeline Androids were stronger than the ones from his, which would likely be as a result of Cell changing history before Trunks arrived), 16 and 19 wouldn't be around, 17 would have already killed Dr. Gero, so maybe Goku and Vegeta would have been able to defeat 17 and 18 themselves. Maybe Piccolo and Kami would merge later on, when Majin Buu shows up, although given how incredibly strong Buu is, the merging wouldn't make a huge difference, so it's possible they would have never seen the need to.
Maybe I'm extrapolating too much, but it's a fun thought nonetheless.

[fadeddreams5]

If the Hero Association from One Punch Man existed in the Dragon Ball universe, would Gohan be a full-time superhero instead of a scholar? I think Chi Chi would approve, given the money and fame.

[kinisking]

If the Hero Association from One Punch Man existed in the Dragon Ball universe, would Gohan be a full-time superhero instead of a scholar? I think Chi Chi would approve, given the money and fame.

Almost definitely. Chi Chi wouldn't have been half as pressed on him becoming a scholar. I don't even think he would have become great saiyaman. He wouldn't really have to hide his identity.

[nickzambuto]

I can't believe I used to be so obsessed with this series back when all I knew was the dub.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I love the dub cast. But those scripts man? Those scripts altered conversations and statements and basically removed every bit of depth the story had. I remember loving Tien and loving his transformation and development at the 22nd Budokai. Now I rewatch his conversation with Roshi and realize it's so much more vapid than the original, I don't understand how I ever thought that was a great character arc.

Although they did add in one line during that conversation which I think is hilarious. Roshi said something along the lines of "You're a great man Tien, besides that whole killing thing. We'll have to work on that." Just the way Mike McFarland said it had me cracking up.

Otherwise though, the script changes neuter Tenshinhan's great character. And I just don't understand why I loved that series so much.

[Cipher]

I can't believe I used to be so obsessed with this series back when all I knew was the dub.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I love the dub cast. But those scripts man? Those scripts altered conversations and statements and basically removed every bit of depth the story had. I remember loving Tien and loving his transformation and development at the 22nd Budokai. Now I rewatch his conversation with Roshi and realize it's so much more vapid than the original, I don't understand how I ever thought that was a great character arc.

For what it's worth, the plot is in tact. A lot of us overemphasize the differences between the original version and FUNimation's dub, because we're so into the minutia of the series and its characters here. The overall outline and everything that makes it a compelling serial is still present. It's no surprise it hooked so many people here as kids; you'd have to do a lot more to the series to take away its appeal. Whether anything about that dub holds up to adult viewing is another story.

[Sailor Haumea]

Re: Above: That "Cell Games" bit in the "unseen" timeline makes absolutely no sense. It comes from a Daizenshuu tidbit, and I think they were totally trippin'. They'd have to occur more than twenty years after they do in the main timeline, when that timeline's Cell is done developing, and they'd only be a threat if the androids weren't defeated and he still managed to absorb them. It is a massively weird detail to include.

Agreed. This mysterious fourth timeline has very low relevance(It isn't Cell's timeline, Trunks's timeline, or the main timeline), so we haven't seen much of it, but as far as we know, Cell was alive in that timeline(If Cell-timeline Trunks knew about Cell, he would have stopped him, Cell would have never gone back in time, and the Cell Games would have never happened). However, 17 and 18 would have been defeated(Otherwise Trunks wouldn't have returned to Cell's timeline), and it's possible the Buu arc had already happened by the time Cell emerged, so -- since he'd only be in his base form -- he would likely be dealt with pretty easily.

Thinking on it... I wonder if Piccolo and Kami would have ever merged in this fourth timeline...? Goku would have been cured of the virus before the Androids showed up, the Androids would be weaker(I remember Trunks saying the main timeline Androids were stronger than the ones from his, which would likely be as a result of Cell changing history before Trunks arrived), 16 and 19 wouldn't be around, 17 would have already killed Dr. Gero, so maybe Goku and Vegeta would have been able to defeat 17 and 18 themselves. Maybe Piccolo and Kami would merge later on, when Majin Buu shows up, although given how incredibly strong Buu is, the merging wouldn't make a huge difference, so it's possible they would have never seen the need to.
Maybe I'm extrapolating too much, but it's a fun thought nonetheless.

Perhaps Lapis and Lazuli didn't chase Goku around, but instead decided to do good instead in this timeline? Cell comes along years later, absorbs them, bam, Perfect Cell.

[nickzambuto]

I can't believe I used to be so obsessed with this series back when all I knew was the dub.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I love the dub cast. But those scripts man? Those scripts altered conversations and statements and basically removed every bit of depth the story had. I remember loving Tien and loving his transformation and development at the 22nd Budokai. Now I rewatch his conversation with Roshi and realize it's so much more vapid than the original, I don't understand how I ever thought that was a great character arc.

For what it's worth, the plot is in tact. A lot of us overemphasize the differences between the original version and FUNimation's dub, because we're so into the minutia of the series and its characters here. The overall outline and everything that makes it a compelling serial is still present. It's no surprise it hooked so many people here as kids; you'd have to do a lot more to the series to take away its appeal. Whether anything about that dub holds up to adult viewing is another story.

Yes, but here I would consider the overarching plot to be "Muten Roshi convinces Tenshinhan to not be an evil assassin." That's hardly compelling on its own, it's all about the writing. And the FUNi writing is wack.

[Noah]

I really think it's an error, but anyone's free to go with one of the other explanations, should they want to keep everything strictly in-universe.

So, can I take this as a mistake made by Toriyama? And in Cell's timeline, Goku was the one who defeated Freeza and Cold?

Maybe?

Or maybe Goku killing Frieza and Cold in Trunks's timeline was a lie. Wouldn't surprise me if either Bulma made that up to avoid discouraging Trunks or Trunks made it up to avoid discouraging the Z-Fighters.

But isn't this kinda contradictory? I mean we take the man word to the heart, what he states in the manga, what he says on interviews like the god himself, if he indeed states that Cell came from a timeline where Trunks killed Freeza and his father, shouldn't we just discard as a error and actually try to figure out how it happened?

Add "Episode of Bardock" to your list along with Minus.

Update:

The most controversial topics to discuss in DB fanbase in general:

- Broly
- Canon
- Episode Of Bardock
- Feats (e.g Is Cell a Solar System buster?)
- GT
- Goku vs. Superman
- Minus
- Plot holes
- Power levels
- The strongest Majin Boo
- The strongest earthling
- The strongest in Boo Arc
- Time travels
- Was Gohan OOC in the Cell Games?
- Was Gohan a SSJ2 against Dabura?

[Sailor Haumea]

Add "Episode of Bardock" to your list along with Minus.

[DanielSSJ]

Hey, anyone know how they translated the Kikoho in the Harmony Gold dub of the third Dragon Ball movie?

[ekrolo2]

Would it be possible to get too strong for fusion? SS3/4 ade Gotenks and Gogeta really powerful but severely cut down on their time, wouldn't this mean that the dance would just stop working after a certain point?

[nickzambuto]

Would it be possible to get too strong for fusion? SS3/4 ade Gotenks and Gogeta really powerful but severely cut down on their time, wouldn't this mean that the dance would just stop working after a certain point?

Gogeta was about a million billion times stronger than Gotenks, yet they both had five minutes of fusion time. Going by that, it doesn't seem like the fusion loses more time the more energy the fighter has, rather that once you reach a certain level of power it just cuts down to five minutes.

[ekrolo2]

Would it be possible to get too strong for fusion? SS3/4 ade Gotenks and Gogeta really powerful but severely cut down on their time, wouldn't this mean that the dance would just stop working after a certain point?

Gogeta was about a million billion times stronger than Gotenks, yet they both had five minutes of fusion time. Going by that, it doesn't seem like the fusion loses more time the more energy the fighter has, rather that once you reach a certain level of power it just cuts down to five minutes.

Didn't Gogeta have 10?

[nickzambuto]

Would it be possible to get too strong for fusion? SS3/4 ade Gotenks and Gogeta really powerful but severely cut down on their time, wouldn't this mean that the dance would just stop working after a certain point?

Gogeta was about a million billion times stronger than Gotenks, yet they both had five minutes of fusion time. Going by that, it doesn't seem like the fusion loses more time the more energy the fighter has, rather that once you reach a certain level of power it just cuts down to five minutes.

Didn't Gogeta have 10?

If he did then that's random.

[ekrolo2]

If he did then that's random.

I'm assuming its because 4 is more stable than 3 but as you said, Gogeta was a lot stronger than Gotenks in terms of power, hence why I ask if the dance can only work up to a point. After all, Goku said the Metamoran's were a weak people individually and designed the dance to compensate for that, it might not be meant for use with super powerful beings.

[Draconic]

With Vegetto being back in the spotlight again, I guess I can share an opinion on him I've had for a while: Vegetto doesn't need Super Saiyan 2 and 3 and is as strong as possible in his regular Super Saiyan form. Basically, if you go by multipliers, his SSJ would be 400x more powerful than his base, instead of the regular 50.
Heroes screws with that and Toriyama's comment that made me think this in the first place (where he said SSJ2/3 are the wrong way to go about getting stronger and Goku should just focus on his base and SSJ form) seems to have been contradicted by Super, but still, it's part of my headcanon.

[Danfun64]

I can now happily say that I am completely caught up with DB Super, and await watching my first simulcast.

For the most part, the Future Trunks arc is really good, though I still wish Goku's character wasnt regressed by Toei. For those who read the manga version of this arc, is Goku handled better there?

One of the reasons I ask is because I generally like the anime version of the Champa arc better than the manga...or at least the parts that Viz posted as of this writing (which is most of it).

Edit: Honestly, I wouldn't have minded Future Trunks' blue hair if it only appeared at the earliest when he fought Dabora and Babidi. Seeing it in flashbacks like Super Gohan knocking him out or his talking about the time machines with Bulma doesn't exactly make sense when he had purple hair in DBZ and flashbacks using DBZ footage.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

For those who read the manga version of this arc, is Goku handled better there?.

The manga moves so quickly, it doesn't really "handle" his character at all. He's just kind of there, and he does things.