Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

I'm really curious how the manga will treat him up until the end.

The power scalling for the manga in general will either stay strong or go to hell in the coming chapters what with Trunks' various boosts and Black's high Base level + SSRose's upcoming debut.

[GodVegetto91]

You and I will have to disagree on this as I feel differently about the subject.

Care to elaborate on that?

Kai was supposed to be an edit of DBZ to look cleaner and be closer to the manga otherwise they could've just reran DBZ again. The Kai Boo Arc left large amounts of filler in it because Toei did it themselves instead of Q-TEC (like they did for Saiyan - Cell saga) but that goes against the original purpose for the new series. Which is why I believe that even if Super Anime follows Kai it largely forgets the filler unless directly referenced/shown. That's my opinion on this.

It's your opinion indeed. Nothing more. The Buu arc of Kai had the entire fight with Base Vegito. And since they use flashbacks of the anime as opposed to the manga. Makes the entire anime(Kai) canon to Dragon Ball Super.

Therefore Base Vegito>Buuhan is canon to Super.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm really curious how the manga will treat him up until the end.

The power scalling for the manga in general will either stay strong or go to hell in the coming chapters what with Trunks' various boosts and Black's high Base level + SSRose's upcoming debut.

I have feeling it's gonna go to hell if Future Trunks getting a power up to fight Zamasu and Black is in Toriyama's plot outline. That will single-handedly fuck up everything.

EDIT: Goku and Vegeta powering out of SSJB will also create a few issues.

[ekrolo2]

I have feeling it's gonna go to hell if Future Trunks getting a power up for fight Zamasu and Black is in the Toriyama's plot outline. That will single-handedly fuck up everything.

Black's Base + Rose is workable for the powers to make sense but you're right, depending on how he deals with Trunks, it may or may not to hell. If Toyotaro keeps Future Zamasu at SS3 tier or slightly higher and has Trunks fight him exclusively, I think it'll be fine.

[fadeddreams5]

This topic should be locked up, with the first post saying "Mission: Aborted" at this point. =P

[Bullza]

Whether Zamasu was distracted and could maybe have performed a little better doesn't really change Beerus' statement or the anime's script. You're suggesting that viewers should ignore actual dialogue in the show, which again is just a really overly complicated way of trying to get around what Toei was clearly portraying.

But the actual dialogue in the show was that Zamasu said he was distracted and could have done better. So you'd be ignoring Zamasu's statement and what was said in a latter updated anime script.

What Beerus said was accurate based on the performance of Zamasu's fight that we and they saw where we know he wasn't at his best. Given that Zamasu was open to fighting him and gave a reason for his earlier poor performance rather than saying "Oh no no you're too strong for me" would suggest that he's confident in putting up a fight against him.

The fact that there are instances where we know Zamasu let his guard down and yet he still expressed surprise as well as clumsiness during those exact same situations should tell you that his initial skirmish against Trunks wasn't necessarily an exception to his stated weakness.

They pointed it out though in those instances. In the scene I'm talking about his guard was up if he were dodging Trunks sword, he wouldn't suddenly let his guard down inbetween Trunks swinging and thrusting his sword. He didn't let his guard down or let himself be stabbed, Trunks just got him and the immortality saved him. Had there been no immortality then he would have died.

[Helios518]

This topic should be locked up, with the first post saying "Mission: Aborted" at this point. =P

or just a DBS PL manga thread but that might be too barren and too easy due to its one month release and coherence.

[Bullza]

I'm really curious how the manga will treat him up until the end.

The power scalling for the manga in general will either stay strong or go to hell in the coming chapters what with Trunks' various boosts and Black's high Base level + SSRose's upcoming debut.

I would guess considering that Zamasu had to work for his win against someone like Kibito that the non God level Trunks will already be enough to match him as he is so there won't be any rage boosts or Super Trunks form either. Meanwhile the enormously more powerful Goku and Vegeta will fight Black and that's about it. Trunks won't fight Black and Goku won't fight Zamasu. The good guys will emerge victorious on both fronts and so they'll fuse to become Merged Zamasu. Trunks will come out with something to beat him.

The power scaling will be much simpler because it doesn't make sense for Trunks and Zamasu to be as strong as they are in the anime (doesn't really make much sense for Trunks to be that strong in the manga either but whatever), there won't be any unexplained transformations coming out of nowhere. There won't be all these rage boosts. Black won't have any unique zenkai boost either.

It will however probably make it much less exciting than how it played out in the anime though.

[Marlowe89]

But the actual dialogue in the show was that Zamasu said he was distracted and could have done better. So you'd be ignoring Zamasu's statement and what was said in a latter updated anime script.

I'm not ignoring Zamasu's statement and I thought I made that pretty clear in my post. I'm saying that Zamasu's statement doesn't inherently contradict Beerus' statement - regardless of whether he was distracted, it doesn't change what was confirmed via the dialogue. If Zamasu in the present was actually stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Goku's performance wouldn't have convinced him that he needed Goku's power.

The point of comparative dialogue like this is for Toei to show the viewer where these characters stand in relation to each other. There isn't going to be some kid in Japan that reacts to this scene and says "Wow, Beerus is definitely lying/wrong/misguided because Zamasu said he was distracted!"; that's just a bizarre expectation to have of the target audience and what Toei intended to convey to that audience through their script.

In the scene I'm talking about his guard was up if he were dodging Trunks sword, he wouldn't suddenly let his guard down inbetween Trunks swinging and thrusting his sword.

Sure he would. SSB Goku attributed Zamasu's poor performance against him to Zamasu letting his guard down, not because he was significantly weaker. SSB Goku is obviously stronger than SS2 Trunks so there's no reason to assume this didn't apply to their skirmish as well.

This isn't rocket science. Zamasu lets his guard down often because he's a clumsy fighter, and he's a clumsy fighter because he's immortal. If he can dodge/block Trunks' sword one moment and completely fail at it the next, it's pretty clear that the immortality he's so prone to taking advantage of sometimes causes him to falter in combat and become vulnerable to Trunks' attacks an instant after he was avoiding them just fine before. That's entirely feasible and plausible as an explanation and it works with what we were told.

[Hugo Boss]

Care to elaborate on that?

Kai was supposed to be an edit of DBZ to look cleaner and be closer to the manga otherwise they could've just reran DBZ again. The Kai Boo Arc left large amounts of filler in it because Toei did it themselves instead of Q-TEC (like they did for Saiyan - Cell saga) but that goes against the original purpose for the new series. Which is why I believe that even if Super Anime follows Kai it largely forgets the filler unless directly referenced/shown. That's my opinion on this.

It's your opinion indeed. Nothing more. The Buu arc of Kai had the entire fight with Base Vegito. And since they use flashbacks of the anime as opposed to the manga. Makes the entire anime(Kai) canon to Dragon Ball Super.

Therefore Base Vegito>Buuhan is canon to Super.

Base Vegetto is stronger than a version of Gohan-Boo that is stronger than Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan Vegeta. Gohan-Boo at full power is stronger than Base Vegetto and weaker than Super Saiyan Vegetto.

[Marlowe89]

The Buu arc of Kai had the entire fight with Base Vegito.

The Buu arc of Kai also had the Hell filler of Frieza and Cell, which contradicts what we were shown in Super's RoF arc.

It's definitely not as clear-cut as you're making it out to be. Toei was responsible for some very questionable decisions when they were put in charge of the editing for TFC.

[Helios518]

The Buu arc of Kai had the entire fight with Base Vegito.

The Buu arc of Kai also had the Hell filler of Frieza and Cell, which contradicts what we were shown in Super's RoF arc.

It's definitely not as clear-cut as you're making it out to be. Toei was responsible for some very questionable decisions when they were put in charge of the editing for TFC.

Lets not forget Kid Boo = Strongest Boo

[ZombieVito]

A few thoughts I would like to share about this episode.

- Since Merged Zamasu was said to be an imbalanced fusion I suppose it didn't receive a massive boost like Vegetto did in the Boo arc. What we know for sure is that he is stronegr than SSB + KKx10 Goku but since no comparison was made to Beerus I would say he is weaker than him. One question I have is if Merged Zamasu is immortal or not. Vegetto says he isn't but then he regenerates Trunks initial slashes.

- Vegetto was also never compared to Beerus so I would say he is still weaker. This wouldn't make sense since Vegetto's boost was massive, easily 100 times from Goku/Vegeta at minimum. What I theorize is that since Vegeta was way stronger than Goku this time the boost got diminished.

- I have no problem with what Trunks did. We know from past examples that when someone donates Ki to someone else is not a simple case of addition, the boost is way bigger. Trunks also doesn't even need to be stronger than Merged Zamasu (Who might be weaker) to beat him since he just evaded and attacked with superior speed.

[HeroR]

A few thoughts I would like to share about this episode.

- Since Merged Zamasu was said to be an imbalanced fusion I suppose it didn't receive a massive boost like Vegetto did in the Boo arc. What we know for sure is that he is stronegr than SSB + KKx10 Goku but since no comparison was made to Beerus I would say he is weaker than him. One question I have is if Merged Zamasu is immortal or not. Vegetto says he isn't but then he regenerates Trunks initial slashes.

- Vegetto was also never compared to Beerus so I would say he is still weaker. This wouldn't make sense since Vegetto's boost was massive, easily 100 times from Goku/Vegeta at minimum. What I theorize is that since Vegeta was way stronger than Goku this time the boost got diminished.

- I have no problem with what Trunks did. We know from past examples that when someone donates Ki to someone else is not a simple case of addition, the boost is way bigger. Trunks also doesn't even need to be stronger than Merged Zamasu (Who might be weaker) to beat him since he just evaded and attacked with superior speed.

He's partly immortal. He can still heal, but a strong enough attack can damaged him. Which is why Goku and Vegeta fused since individually they couldn't take Merged Zamasu. I also disagree with the boost. Merged Zamasu was able to throw down with Vegetto even if he was getting weaker. The thing is that although Black was stronger than Goku and Vegeta, Future Zamasu was noticeably weaker than those two. So Goku and Vegeta would come out to be the overall stronger fusion. Than and Merged Zamasu's body was falling apart.

And the absent of evidence is not evidence. Just because no comparison was made doesn't mean that Merged Zamasu is automatically weaker than Beerus. Especially when the product of Super refused to answer who was stronger between any of the fusions to Beerus.

[Roronoa-pt]

My power ratings:

SSJB Vegetto: 350
Zamasu (Max power): 300
Spirit Ultra SSJ2 Trunks: 122
Bulked Corrupted Zamasu (Weakened): 120
Merged Zamasu: 80
SSJB Kaioken Goku: 68
SSJB Goku: 34
SSJB Vegeta: 34
SSJR Black: 35
Ultra SSJ2 Trunks: 16
Future Zamasu: 15

[apex_pretador]

This episode was good poewr level wise.

Really? How so?

Super Trunks > SSGSS Vegetto > Merged Zamasu > Goku SSGSS > Merged Zamasu

No,

Super vegetto >> Zamasu (merged, full power) > Trunks (spirit bomb) > Merged Zamasu (weakened by vegetto) = Merged Zamasu (initial) = KaioKen goku > Goku (rage boost) = Vegeta = trunks (rage boost)

[PsionicWarrior]

My rating for this arc

Trunks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else

lol

[HeroR]

This episode was good poewr level wise.

Really? How so?

Super Trunks > SSGSS Vegetto > Merged Zamasu > Goku SSGSS > Merged Zamasu

No,

Super vegetto >> Zamasu (merged, full power) > Trunks (spirit bomb) > Merged Zamasu (weakened by vegetto) = Merged Zamasu (initial) = KaioKen goku > Goku (rage boost) = Vegeta = trunks (rage boost)

Merged Zamasu wasn't that much weaker Vegetto. If he was, it would have been a complete stomp.

[apex_pretador]

Really? How so?

Super Trunks > SSGSS Vegetto > Merged Zamasu > Goku SSGSS > Merged Zamasu

No,

Super vegetto >> Zamasu (merged, full power) > Trunks (spirit bomb) > Merged Zamasu (weakened by vegetto) = Merged Zamasu (initial) = KaioKen goku > Goku (rage boost) = Vegeta = trunks (rage boost)

Merged Zamasu wasn't that much weaker Vegetto. If he was, it would have been a complete stomp.

It was a stomp

[Zamasu55]

Merged Zamasu wasn't that much weaker Vegetto. If he was, it would have been a complete stomp.

That's right.
It's like Perfect Cell (full power) and Ssj Goku (Cell games). The first's stronger, but he'd never stomp Goku. Just beat him after a long fight.