Potara Earrings (DBS Spoilers)

[Nejishiki]

Kaioshin, Old Kaioshin, and Future Zamasu probably fulfill the requirements enough, as opposed to Goku and Vegeta, who aren't close to possessing Kaioshin signatures. Old Kaioshin told Goku not to fuse as Super Saiyans because it would stress the body, shorten the lifespans, and he believed it would be a lasting, continuous effect. What is inconsistent is Vegetto appearing a second time. He asserted fusion was only possible once with Potara, however, it may refer to doing so after the fact. With Kaioshin and Kibito being unaware of fusion at all, one could argue the latter owned a pair of merging earrings by chance.

[Angelus]

It can be explained that the Potara earrings are permanent for Kaioshins and having one of the people fusing as a Kaioshin will suffice. That would explain Kibito Kai and Elder Kai's fusions being permanent.

Aside from that, it could be that U10's Potara Earrings have a different effect than U7's. In U10, Gowasu was already aware of the Potara's effects, while in U7, none of them did. How else would they not have used it against a universal threat such as Kid Buu? Even if they [U7 Kaioshins] did know and only Eastern Kaioshin was the only one that wasn't aware of it, apparently it's not common knowledge among the Kaioshins.. all the while it's common knowledge in U10 since even a very recent Kaio and Kaioshin apprentice, such as Zamasu was aware of it.

U10's Potara Earrings also seem to be ceremonial since wearing a specific pair signifies that you were promoted to the rank of Kaioshin.

To sum it up, U10 Gowasu's earrings may have different mechanics and effects of U7's. The hour rule and earrings being a sign of promotion may be a U10 exclusive and of course Eastern Kaoishin has no clue about it, nor would he.

Different Universes may have different mechanics.

U7 Potaras = Permanent fusion
U10 Potaras = Permanent only if Kaioshins use it, otherwise it only lasts 1 hour. Is also a symbol of promotion of the rank of Kaioshin. Required item to wear in order for Time Rings to function with the wearer


Maybe Goku and Vegeta defused because they were "inside" a different timeline, just as they were "inside" Buu's body

[dbgtFO]

Aside from that, it could be that U10's Potara Earrings have a different effect than U7's. In U10, Gowasu was already aware of the Potara's effects, while in U7, none of them did.[...]

To sum it up, U10 Gowasu's earrings may have different mechanics and effects of U7's. The hour rule and earrings being a sign of promotion may be a U10 exclusive and of course Eastern Kaoishin has no clue about it, nor would he.

Different Universes may have different mechanics.

U7 Potaras = Permanent fusion
U10 Potaras = Permanent only if Kaioshins use it, otherwise it only lasts 1 hour. Is also a symbol of promotion of the rank of Kaioshin. Required item to wear in order for Time Rings to function with the wearer

They used Kaioshin's Potara Earrings, not Gowasu's.

[Angelus]

Yes but Gowasu may just be explaining the mechanics of the U10 Potaras. He may not know that U7's Potaras are permanent.

Goku and Vegeta defusing because they "used up all the power for the fusion" might just be the limit of the Potara earrings. Imagine the Potara as super glue that lets 2 objects stick together. A SSJB being with Vegito's power may just be too much for the Potara earrings super glue to keep together. However, a fusion of a being only as powerful as Merged Zamasu may be within it's limits. Of course all the Kaioshins will presume it's permanent because no being with the power of SSJB Vegito has been around to actually split up a Potara fusion. Though U7 and U10's Potara's probably have different mechanics to them, they both may only have an upper limit of keeping a being as powerful as SSJB Vegito, fused together for a small amount of time.

[Nejishiki]

That's a fun idea that could open up various unique effects between universes. Unfortunately, the narrative doesn't suggest Potara function differently from each other. You'll have to take it at face-value unless a stronger suggestion that different rules apply pops up. Concerning ki reserves, you can play with that. Merged Zamasu is absolutely having his vessel pushed to the limit. That it hasn't defused him at all might give credit to Kaioshin signatures being a proper requirement. The Saiyans couldn't hold their large ki together for an hour because it might be incompatible with that magic. Let's also consider Vegetto Blue used "killing intent" techniques twice. That should definitely break the fusion down quicker, I think.

[Lord Beerus]

Horrible explanation. Kibito and Kaioshin were fused for years and Kibito wasn't a Kaioshin. Same with the witch Old Kaioshin fused with (though I don't remember if she was in the manga) that gave him his unlocking abilities for fighters' potential. Also, if it wasn't permanent, then what was the point of Goku asking Old Kaioshin if they should fuse as Super Saiyans? How does Gowasu know more than Old Kaioshin? I strongly believe this is a Toei only thing. That just made me realize, having both Potara on each ear (meaning that one is a Kaioshin) conflicts with Kibito doing the same.

Kibito is a Shinjin. So he's not a mortal either. As far as the old witch goes, she live in the Other World for God knows how long, she it kind up in the either as to whether she qualifies as a mortal.

I also don't think Vegetto defused because of "bad air", I think Goku was just guessing when he said that. I think he defused because Kaioshin and Majin energy don't mix (which is why Dabra said they couldn't use Kaioshin's or Kibitio's ki to revive Buu when he was in his ball, and why I think at least Fat Kaioshin weakened Buu when he absorbed him).

This is all guesswork in the end. We were never given a legitimate reason for why the Potara fusion of Vegetto expelled while inside of Super Boo, and now we have a reason as to why Vegetto defused. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp. it's a retcon, but it doesn't contradict anything previously established.

[rereboy]

I really like this idea. I mean, it was obviously made up on the spot, but spot-checking the Boo Arc, there are no hard contradictions to it anywhere. Nothing that can't be explained away, anyhow.

You mean, other than making it necessary to assume that old Kiaoshin didn't know much of what he was talking about after all, even though he has always been shown to be competent with his information?

This notion is completely unnecessary anyway... They already had two ways to defuse the fusion if they wanted to: a trip inside Fat Buu or using the Dragon Balls like Kaioshin did to defuse. This notion literally adds nothing useful while making old Kaioshin look bad.

[TheUltimateNinja]

What I want to know is what's the benefit of using the fusion dance now?

[szopman]

What I want to know is what's the benefit of using the fusion dance now?

You can for eg. do fusion dance first, and after 30min they can use potara so in total you have 1,5h instead of 1h They totally should keep the potara

[Xeztin]

Horrible explanation. Kibito and Kaioshin were fused for years and Kibito wasn't a Kaioshin. Same with the witch Old Kaioshin fused with (though I don't remember if she was in the manga) that gave him his unlocking abilities for fighters' potential. Also, if it wasn't permanent, then what was the point of Goku asking Old Kaioshin if they should fuse as Super Saiyans? How does Gowasu know more than Old Kaioshin? I strongly believe this is a Toei only thing. That just made me realize, having both Potara on each ear (meaning that one is a Kaioshin) conflicts with Kibito doing the same.

Kibito is a Shinjin. So he's not a mortal either. As far as the old witch goes, she live in the Other World for God knows how long, she it kind up in the either as to whether she qualifies as a mortal.

I also don't think Vegetto defused because of "bad air", I think Goku was just guessing when he said that. I think he defused because Kaioshin and Majin energy don't mix (which is why Dabra said they couldn't use Kaioshin's or Kibitio's ki to revive Buu when he was in his ball, and why I think at least Fat Kaioshin weakened Buu when he absorbed him).

This is all guesswork in the end. We were never given a legitimate reason for why the Potara fusion of Vegetto expelled while inside of Super Boo, and now we have a reason as to why Vegetto defused. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp. it's a retcon, but it doesn't contradict anything previously established.

I think only one has to be a Kaioshin because technically Black is a mortal and the mortal body was even holding Zamasu's healing immortality back. My explanation is in the Boo saga the "Bad air" split happened before the time ran out, and in this saga either time ran out or SSJB was too much for the Potara and shortened the time limit. OR you could just go to un-fun way and call it a retcon (even if it may be true). I think the best thing that comes out of this is that we can have a new type of fusion that is permanent. Perhaps "Zotara" rings that goes on the finger from the God's of Destruction.

[Draconic]

I really like the idea. The bad air was the worst bullshit in this franchise, so finding out it was just plain wrong is a great feeling. This also means that fusion no longer is a viable get-out-of-jail free card like before, since you won't have time to do anything with it if the opponent is not one-shot material. It also is a great way of keeping Vegeta and Goku below Beerus, as even if Vegetto is stronger, he would have to use his full power and Beerus should be able to hold on enough for defusion to happen. Why is this a good thing? Greater possible threats in the future. If Vegetto was just uber-powerful it would make no sense why he's not used anytime the characters get in trouble. The guys not wanting to lose their individuality is such a bad excuse as 1.no one expressed this concern before and 2.they could have always used the Dragon Balls to unfuse.
Also, whatever problems people have with it don't fly. Kibitoshin, Zamasu and Old Kaioshin are all fusions that have a Kaioshin as a fusee, therefore are permanent, while Goku and Vegeta aren't so they don't get that. And Old Kaioshin appearing stupid is really just the opinion of some people, but looking at it it's really a non-issue. No non-Kaioshin ever fused before with another non-Kaioshin, so he might have simply not known. It's not like he was never wrong before, as all characters are at some point. Plus, Gowasu might be older than him, as Old Kaioshin was only old because he fused with the witch, and also wasn't sealed for millions of years, so he might have witnessed something in his Universe during that time. It doesn't make him stupid at all.

[Wizard Sesame]

I don't like it. I never had a problem with the insides of Majin Buu being the reason they de-fused. It unnecessarily makes old Kaioshin be mistaken.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

I see no problem with this since Kais would never have a lot of opportunity (or reason) to engage in Potara/mortal experimentation. I'm guessing their entire purpose would be to fuse multiple Kai together so that a Supreme Kai could have the best attributes of each (kind of like Namekian fusion), and the one-hour time limit would be to keep non-Kais from abusing them.

[emperior]

This retcon was really needed in my opinion.
Just only for the fact we won't have to wonder in the future "Why don't Goku and Vegeta fuse?" because we have seen that potara has a time limit and using a lot of power while being fused with the potara shortens it.
It also makes sense Goku and Vegeta defused back in Buu arc, they probably used a lot of power of the potara back then too (possibly shorting it to even 10 minutes) and makes more sense than "Buu's body bad air"
Now Vegetto/Gogeta will be finally gone for good. I love to see Goku and Vegeta fusing but that shouldn't be the answer to every threat they face.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I feel like the only way to reason with the retcon is to say something like "Old Kaioshin was just being old and forgetful".

Or, he never had any experience with mortals using the Potara, so he never knew about this.

[Lord Beerus]

I feel like the only way to reason with the retcon is to say something like "Old Kaioshin was just being old and forgetful".

Or, he never had any experience with mortals using the Potara, so he never knew about this.

Which is completely understandable considering Old Kaioshin would have never met a single mortal in his lifetime before meeting Goku.

[dbzfan7]

Unless we get direct confirmation that this was Toriyama's idea, then I'm going to consider it yet another Super-ism and ignore it in the context of everything else, of course. Especially the original manga. Super doesn't come close to deserving to retcon things in that.

Even if Old Kaioshin didn't know this bit about the Potara because mortals had never used them before in Universe 7, or something like that... it's still WAY too evident that something about Majin Boo's physiology caused the split, since it happened to occur immediately after Vegetto dropped his barrier. I'll stick to the "bad air" actually being a Kaioshin/Majin magic incompatibility thing. There's good precedent for that, with Kaioshin energy being unsuitable for reinvigorating Boo and the weird effects of Boo absorbing the Kaioshin.

Considering how dumb this is. I'm with you. Hopefully Toyotaro saves us from this nonsense. Now the potara lose what made them so interesting in the first place. A weakness that's not about time or power, but losing your existence as a single entity. That's a huge drawback. Considering how Vegetto is, we miss out on potential amazing storylines with him. Would he want to even defuse? Before he had no choice, but now he could say no. Imagine that story. A story where they have to convince Vegetto to split up again.

Now the potara is more exploitable than ever before. All we know is it didn't last an hour. But even 30 minutes or more is still useful. More infuriating it literally makes the fusion dance utterly worthless. Who needs Gotenks anymore? Just use the potara from now on as it's easier and more powerful with no repercussions. At least the dance has the chance to make you weak if you screw it up. Now everyone can exploit the potara for one hour, or in Goku and Vegeta's case less than an hour for some unspecified time.

[Doctor.]

Unless we get direct confirmation that this was Toriyama's idea, then I'm going to consider it yet another Super-ism and ignore it in the context of everything else, of course. Especially the original manga. Super doesn't come close to deserving to retcon things in that.

Even if Old Kaioshin didn't know this bit about the Potara because mortals had never used them before in Universe 7, or something like that... it's still WAY too evident that something about Majin Boo's physiology caused the split, since it happened to occur immediately after Vegetto dropped his barrier. I'll stick to the "bad air" actually being a Kaioshin/Majin magic incompatibility thing. There's good precedent for that, with Kaioshin energy being unsuitable for reinvigorating Boo and the weird effects of Boo absorbing the Kaioshin.

Considering how dumb this is. I'm with you. Hopefully Toyotaro saves us from this nonsense. Now the potara lose what made them so interesting in the first place. A weakness that's not about time or power, but losing your existence as a single entity. That's a huge drawback. Considering how Vegetto is, we miss out on potential amazing storylines with him. Would he want to even defuse? Before he had no choice, but now he could say no. Imagine that story. A story where they have to convince Vegetto to split up again.

Now the potara is more exploitable than ever before. All we know is it didn't last an hour. But even 30 minutes or more is still useful. More infuriating it literally makes the fusion dance utterly worthless. Who needs Gotenks anymore? Just use the potara from now on as it's easier and more powerful with no repercussions. At least the dance has the chance to make you weak if you screw it up. Now everyone can exploit the potara for one hour, or in Goku and Vegeta's case less than an hour for some unspecified time.

The Potara was more exploitable than ever before when Super confirmed that it could be defused with Dragon Balls. Hell, even before that, one trip to the inside of Boo's body and they'd be done. They had no reason not to abuse the Potara whenever they could. I thought the reason they never did was because U7 was out of Potara. This retcon is pretty idiotic and unnecessary but I feel like it makes the Boo arc make a lot more sense. The bad air thing always seemed like too much of a handwave for something so big.

[dbzfan7]

Unless we get direct confirmation that this was Toriyama's idea, then I'm going to consider it yet another Super-ism and ignore it in the context of everything else, of course. Especially the original manga. Super doesn't come close to deserving to retcon things in that.

Even if Old Kaioshin didn't know this bit about the Potara because mortals had never used them before in Universe 7, or something like that... it's still WAY too evident that something about Majin Boo's physiology caused the split, since it happened to occur immediately after Vegetto dropped his barrier. I'll stick to the "bad air" actually being a Kaioshin/Majin magic incompatibility thing. There's good precedent for that, with Kaioshin energy being unsuitable for reinvigorating Boo and the weird effects of Boo absorbing the Kaioshin.

Considering how dumb this is. I'm with you. Hopefully Toyotaro saves us from this nonsense. Now the potara lose what made them so interesting in the first place. A weakness that's not about time or power, but losing your existence as a single entity. That's a huge drawback. Considering how Vegetto is, we miss out on potential amazing storylines with him. Would he want to even defuse? Before he had no choice, but now he could say no. Imagine that story. A story where they have to convince Vegetto to split up again.

Now the potara is more exploitable than ever before. All we know is it didn't last an hour. But even 30 minutes or more is still useful. More infuriating it literally makes the fusion dance utterly worthless. Who needs Gotenks anymore? Just use the potara from now on as it's easier and more powerful with no repercussions. At least the dance has the chance to make you weak if you screw it up. Now everyone can exploit the potara for one hour, or in Goku and Vegeta's case less than an hour for some unspecified time.

The Potara was more exploitable than ever before when Super confirmed that it could be defused with Dragon Balls. Hell, even before that, one trip to the inside of Boo's body and they'd be done. They had no reason not to abuse the Potara whenever they could. I thought the reason they never did was because U7 was out of Potara. This retcon is pretty idiotic and unnecessary but I feel like it makes the Boo arc make a lot more sense. The bad air thing always seemed like too much of a handwave for something so big.

Oh I agree and it's why I didn't like the Dragon Balls being able to separate them as it was pointless for Kibitoshin. But as I pointed out, Vegetto unlike Kibitoshin is his own being. Kibitoshin is basically just Kaioshin absorbing Kibito. He clearly dominates the fusion. With Vegetto, he had no plans to be defused. He had his own being. He was not Goku or Vegeta. He was Vegetto. So the next best thing to making the potara unusable, is to have the being not want to separate. Think Doctor Fate and Nabu. When you wear the Helmet of Fate, Nabu takes over as Doctor Fate. Yet he may not relinquish his control over a host and keep the body. So someone else using the helmet of fate was incredibly risky. Though U7 being out of potara would be a good excuse too I guess.

Not to mention the whole thing with Boo may not be possible the same way. Whether he could use absorption or whatever, as I mean he never tries to and probably could have attempted it on Beerus, but never did. Though even if the case was yes, we still could have the big weakness being the fact Vegetto is his own being. That alone would keep the potara as special and risky to use. The Potara had meaning behind it. Now just like what Super Saiyan Blue did to Super Saiyan God, the potara are just yet another power up....that's it. Nothing special about them. They kill the fusion dances purpose, and are merely another form of strength gain with no meaning.

[Doctor.]

Oh I agree and it's why I didn't like the Dragon Balls being able to separate them as it was pointless for Kibitoshin. But as I pointed out, Vegetto unlike Kibitoshin is his own being. Kibitoshin is basically just Kaioshin absorbing Kibito. He clearly dominates the fusion. With Vegetto, he had no plans to be defused. He had his own being. He was not Goku or Vegeta. He was Vegetto. So the next best thing to making the potara unusable, is to have the being not want to separate. Think Doctor Fate and Nabu. When you wear the Helmet of Fate, Nabu takes over as Doctor Fate. Yet he may not relinquish his control over a host and keep the body. So someone else using the helmet of fate was incredibly risky. Though U7 being out of potara would be a good excuse too I guess.

Not to mention the whole thing with Boo may not be possible the same way. Whether he could use absorption or whatever, as I mean he never tries to and probably could have attempted it on Beerus, but never did. Though even if the case was yes, we still could have the big weakness being the fact Vegetto is his own being. That alone would keep the potara as special and risky to use. The Potara had meaning behind it. Now just like what Super Saiyan Blue did to Super Saiyan God, the potara are just yet another power up....that's it. Nothing special about them. They kill the fusion dances purpose, and are merely another form of strength gain with no meaning.

I think you're perhaps letting DBM's interpretation of Vegetto cloud your judgement. DB never treated fusion as something that deep, Vegetto was always just Goku and Vegeta. I'm sure, even if he didn't defuse inside Boo, he'd just find another way to defuse instead. I mean, it's possible that Vegetto would feel like he's his own entity and wouldn't want to split, but that's pretty much just headcanon.