Let's talk about Trunks...

[The Monkey King]

I believe his character and the feats that he pulled off in this arc of DBS are going to be another 'fanbase breaker' among other hot topics such as: Goku vs Superman, who was the strongest Majin, was Gohan SSJ2 against Dabura etc.

So in this thread we can get it all off our chests in regards to what we think about the new Blue Haired Future Trunks.

I personally think that Future Trunks was written awfully in the 2nd half of this arc and is an emabrresment to Toriyama's original manga series and character.

For me the turning point was when he managed to give SSJB Goku ample back up when they fought SSJR Black and Zamasu.
How? Just how?? This was the same Trunks who got his shit kicked in by base Black, did no training in the past (getting his ass kicked by Vegeta isn't training) came back and can now fight on par with SSJB Goku and take a SSJR Kamehameha along side him.
Some tried to explain it away as a rage boost. Again this doesn't make any sense. Trunks saw Black kill his mother and "kill" Mai if Trunks getting stronger by rage was an established thing it would've been shown during his fight with base Black.
Conclusion: Poor writing.

And then we have Trunks' new transformation. Sure I was hype as everyone else when I saw it but... What the hell is it? Is it SSJB? if so how? Vegeta had to train with Whis, then train with Goku for months in order to achieve the SSJB transformation and Trunks achieves a similar transformation out of nowhere. The form is somewhat reminiscent of when Gohan first went SSJ2 in the anime where he bulked up like SSJ Grade 3 then his muscles slimmed back down. But yeah I'm still not getting it, no one commented on it and now that the fight's over I doubt anyone will.
Conclusion: Poor writing.

Then we have the new techniques Trunks had learned. The 1st few I really liked, the Masenko was a nice nod to the fact he was trained by Gohan, The ki beam slashes from his sword was a move that I thought seemed cool and logical from DBZ games so it was nice to see Trunks use it in the anime, then we have the Final Flash, I felt like the writers were pushing it just a tad but Trunks did see the Final Flash with his own eyes and saw just how powerful the technique was so it made sense that he picked it up.
Conclusion: Good writing.

But then things started to go pear shaped again. Let's start with the smallest offender the Galick Gun. Trunks has never seen Vegeta use it and it seems to be inferior to the Final Flash so why bother? But we did see Vegeta teaching it to Trunks in the eye catcher so are those canon now..? lol.
Following from there we have Trunks learning the Mafuba in 5 minutes when it took Goku a whole day to learn. To put it simply Trunks is not a fighting prodigy like Goku, this was established in the Cell saga when Trunks developed the bulky and useless SSJ Grade 3 form while Goku decided mastering the SSJ form made the most sense. This clealy showed that when it comes to techniques Goku and Trunks are miles apart.
But then again the plot needed to move forward sooo yeah I can kinda look past it.
Conclusion: Confusing writing.

Then we have what I would say is the biggest offender of all: Trunks using the Spirit Bomb better than Goku ever has then somehow fucking channelled it into his sword. Seriously what the actual fuck was that!? Trunks has never seen or heard of the Spirit Bomb (then again Future Gohan could've told him about it). Goku had to train for months with the actual creator of the Spirit Bomb in order to perfect the technique.
Even so using it had multiple downsides: long charge time, user has to stay stationary with his hands up, sentient beings have to willingly give up their genki for the attack to gain power.
Using the Spirit Bomb has always been a risky last resort for Goku to use that left viewers (or readers) on the edge of their seats.
But not for Trunks did it have a long charge time? Nope it only took a few seconds, did Trunks have the concentrate with his hands up to charge it? Nope he wasn't even aware of what was happening it. Did the remaining populace willingly donate genki? Nah it's Trunks time you better give up that genki whethere you want to or not.
Conclusion: Horrible writing.

Trunks coming back to Dragon Ball with blue hair irked me enough but the writers had to turn him into a Gary Stue I know people like to throw around the term Mary Sue/Gary Stue as a means of exaggeration but objectively speaking that's what Trunks was for the 2nd half of the arc.

They ruined him, they fucking ruined him. I liked Trunks because although he was a badass super saiyan his human side was also very prevalent which made him a flawed but relate-able character. He didn't get any bullshit power up to save Vegeta from #18, he let his emotions cloud his better judgement and got his ass kicked for it.
When developing a new SSJ form to fight Cell in his naivety he thought more power = better and so used the SSJ Grade 3 form in battle when Vegeta and Goku knew better. And once again he got his ass kicked and embarrassed for it, even at that to attain said useless form Trunks had to train his ass off in the ROSAT for a whole damn year. When he got his sword got broken by #18 did he make a new giant ki saber to cut the androids in 2? No he had to adapt to the situation and resort to fighting via hand-to hand combat.

But now Trunks is no longer like that he's now just a walking plot device getting where the DBS writers have obsessively wanked him into new and disgusting heights.
/rant

Hopefully Toyotarō does a better job than Toei.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

That's quite a detailed analysis. Mine is short and simple. Trunks was always an average written character and in Super it's no different. In fact, most of the Dragon Ball characters are nothing more than average.

I'm not going to talk about his feats cause I could care less about battle powers. Toy sales most likely have increased, average ratings of this arc has been better than the previous arcs so the return of Trunks was a success. Also, he got to be the hero of his own arc and for that alone he gets a pass for some of the minor issues I had with the script.

Conclusion: I like Trunks. He is still an okay-ish character just like he was in Z and I wouldn't mind seeing him again. Maybe as a Time Patroller or something like that.

EDIT: I don't like the word Gary Stue/Mary Sue cause it's something people throw around just because they dislike something or like you said to overexaggerate. The word itself has no meaning.

[Bullza]

I don't think I've ever known a fanbase that's opinions on a show in general are affected so much by power levels in it. Not specifically referring to this topic or even this forum, it's just something with this fanbase in general.

For example if they had Piccolo and Gohan show up and they fought Black and it was a really good entertaining fight scene, fantastic animation, one of the best fights in all the franchise. Instead of people enjoying it though people would be ripping the show and Toriyama because "but power levels!". You'd be likely to see more people criticizing it for that than praising it for how good it was.

Like this

How? Just how?? This was the same Trunks who got his shit kicked in by base Black, did no training in the past (getting his ass kicked by Vegeta isn't training) came back and can now fight on par with SSJB Goku and take a SSJR Kamehameha along side him.

Does it really matter? It was a fantastic scene, arguably one of the best scenes in the series. Very entertaining actually and I watch the scene over on Youtube every now and then. I certainly don't let the fact that Trunks was able to do this and questioning the writing behind it stop me from really enjoying the scene.

Trunks got a new form. The scene where he obtained it was cool, it looks cool, it was involved in several scenes of the anime that were pretty cool. It'll probably be a playable character in video games in the future. Is it really that important to know what it specifically is? It's just a new more powerful form.

Then you've got critiques like this

Goku had to train for months with the actual creator of the Spirit Bomb in order to perfect the technique.

It's a problem apparently that Trunks was able to use the Spirit Bomb that Goku had to train months to learn but it's perfectly fine for Master Roshi to have learnt and perfected the Kamehameha in 50 years and for Goku to do it in 50 seconds. Let's not wait to see if anything is explained about it in the next episode, let's rip it apart before the possible explanations instead.

It's a kids anime that's meant for entertainment, it's not supposed to be over analysed and studied to the point that you go out of your way to find holes in it which just ruins the show for you.

[PsionicWarrior]

I don't think I've ever known a fanbase that's opinions on a show in general are affected so much by power levels in it. Not specifically referring to this topic or even this forum, it's just something with this fanbase in general.

Maybe because in its essence the franchise was built around powerups lol

[namekiansaiyan]

I don't think I've ever known a fanbase that's opinions on a show in general are affected so much by power levels in it. Not specifically referring to this topic or even this forum, it's just something with this fanbase in general.

For example if they had Piccolo and Gohan show up and they fought Black and it was a really good entertaining fight scene, fantastic animation, one of the best fights in all the franchise. Instead of people enjoying it though people would be ripping the show and Toriyama because "but power levels!". You'd be likely to see more people criticizing it for that than praising it for how good it was.

Like this

How? Just how?? This was the same Trunks who got his shit kicked in by base Black, did no training in the past (getting his ass kicked by Vegeta isn't training) came back and can now fight on par with SSJB Goku and take a SSJR Kamehameha along side him.

Does it really matter? It was a fantastic scene, arguably one of the best scenes in the series. Very entertaining actually and I watch the scene over on Youtube every now and then. I certainly don't let the fact that Trunks was able to do this and questioning the writing behind it stop me from really enjoying the scene.

Trunks got a new form. The scene where he obtained it was cool, it looks cool, it was involved in several scenes of the anime that were pretty cool. It'll probably be a playable character in video games in the future. Is it really that important to know what it specifically is? It's just a new more powerful form.

Then you've got critiques like this

Goku had to train for months with the actual creator of the Spirit Bomb in order to perfect the technique.

It's a problem apparently that Trunks was able to use the Spirit Bomb that Goku had to train months to learn but it's perfectly fine for Master Roshi to have learnt and perfected the Kamehameha in 50 years and for Goku to do it in 50 seconds. Let's not wait to see if anything is explained about it in the next episode, let's rip it apart before the possible explanations instead.

It's a kids anime that's meant for entertainment, it's not supposed to be over analysed and studied to the point that you go out of your way to find holes in it which just ruins the show for you.

Power levels matter in this case as it is just 1 character getting stronger after doing nothing while the others get called weak and get nothing. Every characters should be able to get power ups like Trunks in this arc simple as.

[Bullza]

Power levels matter in this case as it is just 1 character getting stronger after doing nothing while the others get called weak and get nothing. Every characters should be able to get power ups like Trunks in this arc simple as.

It shouldn't matter that much that it gets in the way of people's enjoyment. Power levels aren't supposed to be taken that seriously. He trained, he got angry, he got a new form, that's why he was able to do what he did, it's simple enough. It doesn't need to be broken down into any kind of geeky analysis where people say "but he only trained for X period of time but when this character trained for Y period of time he didn't get the same consistent mathematical increase in power" or "but when he got angry this time his power only increased by X percent but now his power has increased by Y percent".

The series doesn't follow that line of thinking as was proven by the whole zenkai boost thing back on Namek. They get as strong as they need to be to tell the story that they want to tell, that's about it. It's just supposed to be a fun action series to entertain people, not something that is supposed to boggle the mind with thoughts of logic and consistency like some science book.

[sangofe]

I don't think I've ever known a fanbase that's opinions on a show in general are affected so much by power levels in it. Not specifically referring to this topic or even this forum, it's just something with this fanbase in general.

For example if they had Piccolo and Gohan show up and they fought Black and it was a really good entertaining fight scene, fantastic animation, one of the best fights in all the franchise. Instead of people enjoying it though people would be ripping the show and Toriyama because "but power levels!". You'd be likely to see more people criticizing it for that than praising it for how good it was.

Like this

How? Just how?? This was the same Trunks who got his shit kicked in by base Black, did no training in the past (getting his ass kicked by Vegeta isn't training) came back and can now fight on par with SSJB Goku and take a SSJR Kamehameha along side him.

Does it really matter? It was a fantastic scene, arguably one of the best scenes in the series. Very entertaining actually and I watch the scene over on Youtube every now and then. I certainly don't let the fact that Trunks was able to do this and questioning the writing behind it stop me from really enjoying the scene.

Trunks got a new form. The scene where he obtained it was cool, it looks cool, it was involved in several scenes of the anime that were pretty cool. It'll probably be a playable character in video games in the future. Is it really that important to know what it specifically is? It's just a new more powerful form.

Then you've got critiques like this

Goku had to train for months with the actual creator of the Spirit Bomb in order to perfect the technique.

It's a problem apparently that Trunks was able to use the Spirit Bomb that Goku had to train months to learn but it's perfectly fine for Master Roshi to have learnt and perfected the Kamehameha in 50 years and for Goku to do it in 50 seconds. Let's not wait to see if anything is explained about it in the next episode, let's rip it apart before the possible explanations instead.

It's a kids anime that's meant for entertainment, it's not supposed to be over analysed and studied to the point that you go out of your way to find holes in it which just ruins the show for you.

I'm SO with you Bullza. I had chills down my back the whole episode and tears coming out because of how fantastically well animated and tense this episode was. And I loved the surprise of Vegetto unfusing which lead to Trunks's new attack (which honestly never was spelled out it was the Genki Dama - it may as well have been something else, honestly, even if it looked very similar).

[Doctor.]

It's a kids anime that's meant for entertainment, it's not supposed to be over analysed and studied to the point that you go out of your way to find holes in it which just ruins the show for you.

I don't understand your insistence on the fact that just because it's a kid's show, it can't be analyzed. I'm sorry, what? Normal people can distinguish between entertainment and quality. Like I said in another thread, you can acknowledge that something is shit whilst simultaneously enjoying it. Shocking concept, I know.

Trunks was written like shit for most of the arc. Does this mean that the character didn't produce entertaining scenes? No. Were there entertaining fight sequences involving him? Yes. Was the climactic finale entertaining? Yes, it was. Do all of these things make the writing any less terrible? No.

[ekrolo2]

I didn't think I'd want any character to fuck off from a story more than Nick Fury in Age of Ultron but whoo boy, Trunks definitely earns that coveted position.

[PsionicWarrior]

IMO a great show appeals to both kids and grown-ups, many layers lol
Also it helps when producers don't underestimate too much kids intellect lol

[Cetra]

You know what is really bad? Freeza getting stronger in 4 months and Sorbet almost killing Goku because he "was so careless".

Trunks was an interesting choice for a character to get stronger. And another villain should better not try to terrorize his timeline.

[Doctor.]

I didn't think I'd want any character to fuck off from a story more than Nick Fury in Age of Ultron but whoo boy, Trunks definitely earns that coveted position.

I was pretty done with Freeza once I read the spoilers for F, to be honest.

[sangofe]

It's a kids anime that's meant for entertainment, it's not supposed to be over analysed and studied to the point that you go out of your way to find holes in it which just ruins the show for you.

I don't understand your insistence on the fact that just because it's a kid's show, it can't be analyzed. I'm sorry, what? Normal people can distinguish between entertainment and quality. Like I said in another thread, you can acknowledge that something is shit whilst simultaneously enjoying it. Shocking concept, I know.

Trunks was written like shit for most of the arc. Does this mean that the character didn't produce entertaining scenes? No. Were there entertaining fight sequences involving him? Yes. Was the climactic finale entertaining? Yes, it was. Do all of these things make the writing any less terrible? No.

I honestly don't think he was "written like shit for most of the arc". The thing about the Mafuba was questionable, I agree. The genki dama-like sword attack? Pure brilliance! Everything else; great stuff!

[namekiansaiyan]

I didn't think I'd want any character to fuck off from a story more than Nick Fury in Age of Ultron but whoo boy, Trunks definitely earns that coveted position.

He should never come back as he steals oppurtunities from othee characters. I don't care if he is popular as the others will be more popular is they actually gave them something to do. It is all becuase of that stupid sword.

[PsionicWarrior]

Power levels matter in this case as it is just 1 character getting stronger after doing nothing while the others get called weak and get nothing. Every characters should be able to get power ups like Trunks in this arc simple as.

It shouldn't matter that much that it gets in the way of people's enjoyment. Power levels aren't supposed to be taken that seriously. He trained, he got angry, he got a new form, that's why he was able to do what he did, it's simple enough. It doesn't need to be broken down into any kind of geeky analysis where people say "but he only trained for X period of time but when this character trained for Y period of time he didn't get the same consistent mathematical increase in power" or "but when he got angry this time his power only increased by X percent but now his power has increased by Y percent".

The series doesn't follow that line of thinking as was proven by the whole zenkai boost thing back on Namek. They get as strong as they need to be to tell the story that they want to tell, that's about it. It's just supposed to be a fun action series to entertain people, not something that is supposed to boggle the mind with thoughts of logic and consistency like some science book.

It's not much about nittpicking on X amount of time that is dramatic but more than complete incomprehension on what the **** happened with Trunks as a whole lol

I'm going to go the most simple I can, at least that is from my perspective,

At the EoZ we had SSJ3 that was the most powerful, then we got Beerus kicking out that form in one hit,
OK, amazing lol
Then instead of keeping the powerups like they always did they introduced a new thing, SSG, OK

I mean insofar it's ok by me why not let's see lol

Then SSG needs SSJ-like powerup of its own and we get SSB/R, it's a bit like we cleared the tables, now everything below God Ki is UTTERLY WEAK and it's a bit like a reboot of regular SSJ but with a different color and a different basis for a new level of power,
the moment that GodKi is set up and established in this way, it is BEYOND IMPOSSIBLE all the fuck that happened with Trunks in his powerups, he could not get GodKi let alone SSB by anger because it's not how it works, yet he went from SSJ2 to something above everyone else Vegetto included so what the fucking fuck happened, the whole Trunks situation is a succession of asspulls if I've ever seen any lol

[dbs fanboy]

Honestly, while Trunks's bullshit power ups are stupid, i don't think that it's so bad his existence in this arc, he got great interactions, nice character development and even made kid Trunks develope himself, that's something great in my book.

And while it could be annoying to have him being so powerful, he's relevant, and i still remember those days when some people used to say that this was the Goku/Vegeta show and that Trunks would remain as a side character. And so far, the issue appears with his transformation not being explained and #66 (where my issue is the fact that the humans don't know how to give their ki)

[Kanassa]

Trunks coming back to Dragon Ball with blue hair irked me enough but the writers had to turn him into a Gary Stue I know people like to throw around the term Mary Sue/Gary Stue as a means of exaggeration but objectively speaking that's what Trunks was for the 2nd half of the arc.

There's much more to being a Gary Stue then just bullshit powers.

[dbs fanboy]

Power levels matter in this case as it is just 1 character getting stronger after doing nothing while the others get called weak and get nothing. Every characters should be able to get power ups like Trunks in this arc simple as.

It shouldn't matter that much that it gets in the way of people's enjoyment. Power levels aren't supposed to be taken that seriously. He trained, he got angry, he got a new form, that's why he was able to do what he did, it's simple enough. It doesn't need to be broken down into any kind of geeky analysis where people say "but he only trained for X period of time but when this character trained for Y period of time he didn't get the same consistent mathematical increase in power" or "but when he got angry this time his power only increased by X percent but now his power has increased by Y percent".

The series doesn't follow that line of thinking as was proven by the whole zenkai boost thing back on Namek. They get as strong as they need to be to tell the story that they want to tell, that's about it. It's just supposed to be a fun action series to entertain people, not something that is supposed to boggle the mind with thoughts of logic and consistency like some science book.

It's not much about nittpicking on X amount of time that is dramatic but more than complete incomprehension on what the **** happened with Trunks as a whole lol

I'm going to go the most simple I can, at least that is from my perspective,

At the EoZ we had SSJ3 that was the most powerful, then we got Beerus kicking out that form in one hit,
OK, amazing lol
Then instead of keeping the powerups like they always did they introduced a new thing, SSG, OK

I mean insofar it's ok by me why not let's see lol

Then SSG needs SSJ-like powerup of its own and we get SSB/R, it's a bit like we cleared the tables, now everything below God Ki is UTTERLY WEAK and it's a bit like a reboot of regular SSJ but with a different color and a different basis for a new level of power,
the moment that GodKi is set up and established in this way, it is BEYOND IMPOSSIBLE all the fuck that happened with Trunks in his powerups, he could not get GodKi let alone SSB by anger because it's not how it works, yet he went from SSJ2 to something above everyone else Vegetto included so what the fucking fuck happened, the whole Trunks situation is a succession of asspulls if I've ever seen any lol

Pretty much in the anime Trunks ssj 2 is as strong as Goku's (and Goku's base in the anime is stronger than his ssj 3 self back in Z), and in the manga he's ssj 2 is as strong as Goku's ssj 3.

And in #66 he absorbed a Genkidama, is not like he powered up on his own. And Merged Zamasu was weakened.
But is still stupid how was he able to survive before absorbing that energy.

[PsionicWarrior]

And in #66 he absorbed a Genkidama, is not like he powered up on his own.

True, how did he do that again lol

[Bullza]

I don't understand your insistence on the fact that just because it's a kid's show, it can't be analyzed. I'm sorry, what? Normal people can distinguish between entertainment and quality. Like I said in another thread, you can acknowledge that something is shit whilst simultaneously enjoying it.

You can analyse it but not to the extent that it ruins the show for you, not over something as trivial as power levels. A lot of this fanbase has this problem, a good example was the Resurrection F movie, there was that Z Fighters vs 1,000 soldiers scene and was one of the best action scenes to come out of this franchise and a lot of people like it but then you had that group who had to make comments like

"But Master Roshi only has a power level of 139, how is he able to fight these soldiers, this is dumb" or "But Gohan could just do this and this"

Instead of just enjoying it for what it is. Same with people constantly going on about Frieza getting so strong in 4 months when it doesn't really matter because he needed to be or there's no story.

It hasn't been shit nor was Trunks written like shit, we know why he got as strong as he did. He trained with Vegeta and did his own training, he got very angry and they said anger amounts to power and he obtained a new form. They clearly explained why he was as strong as he was. If you consider it shit for the over analysed reasoning of "but his strength didn't grow this much at this time" then I don't know what to say but that's stupid to me because we know the series doesn't do that and we've known that for many years.