Things that grind your gears

[LightBing]

I guess? I feel like they could've just called him Gogeta and then say there's a dance variant and an earring variant for him. I'm pretty sure there's a game that does something like that.

It's easier this way. Imagine the vs thread, people would constantly fail to specify which Gogeta.

[Cetra]

Vegeta + Kakarot = Vegito.... Somehow...

They wrote "Vegito" because of "Bejiita". It still can be expressed with the "e" through so it is not necessary. Vegetto it is.

[Alruneia]

I wonder if the best translation would actually be to write Vegitto. Trust me, a lot of people won't get that the second e in the Vegetto romanisation is supposed to be an ee sound and not an eh sound (if people can translate Chi-Chi as Kikki then they can do this as well). Simultaneously, the Vegito translation having one t misses the Japanese name's specific double consonant symbol. Though Goku is Kakarot, not Kakarotto, in the English dub, so the most accurate fusion name might actually be Vegerot.

[90sDBZ]

One thing that really grinds my gears is the large amount of Youtubers who feel the need to post videos of Super with major spoilers in the name and picture, obviously as clickbait. What makes it worse is how it becomes hard to avoid due to Youtube's recommendation system. The other week I was watching a few gameplay videos of Xenoverse 2, and when I went back to the main Youtube page there were videos of Super with spoilers left right and centre. Now I always make a point of deleting my search and watch history whenever I've watched something Dragonball related.

[PsionicWarrior]

One thing that really grinds my gears is the large amount of Youtubers who feel the need to post videos of Super with major spoilers in the name and picture, obviously as clickbait. What makes it worse is how it becomes hard to avoid due to Youtube's recommendation system. The other week I was watching a few gameplay videos of Xenoverse 2, and when I went back to the main Youtube page there were videos of Super with spoilers left right and centre. Now I always make a point of deleting my search and watch history whenever I've watched something Dragonball related.

Use a Youtube blocker mate, YT recommendations are always crap and even unrelated most of the times anyway lol

[OLKv3]

People who continually bash DB and DBZ to defend DBS.

[Anime Kitten]

When people disrespect and insult (and often even curse) Toei for their work, yet go and do the same thing to people who disrespect Mr. Toriyama even slightly. Just because he's the original creator and Toei adapted his work doesn't mean you can insult Toei with all your might.

[pacz360]

The "Z DID IT TOO SCHTICK THEREFORE SUPER IS FINE" crap it's pathetic and a poor way to defend super.

[dbzfan7]

Dragon Ball Super episode 66. I want to really like it, but I can't. Too much stupid with such an awesome conceptual episode.

[Soppa Saia People]

When people disrespect and insult (and often even curse) Toei for their work, yet go and do the same thing to people who disrespect Mr. Toriyama even slightly. Just because he's the original creator and Toei adapted his work doesn't mean you can insult Toei with all your might.

But Toei is a company, Toriyama is a 60 year old man. Well I'm not defending attacking Toei, there is a pretty big difference.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Vegeta + Kakarot = Vegito.... Somehow...

If we're going into Japanese pronunciation, Kakarotto + Bejita = Begito

So Vegito is kind of (but not really) more accurate in an inconsistent way.

[Anime Kitten]

But Toei is a company, Toriyama is a 60 year old man. Well I'm not defending attacking Toei, there is a pretty big difference.

Still, why is the most common mindset that Mr. Toriyama is one man, the original author, so we respect him; but Toei is a company with many, many people, that only adapted his work, thus it's okay to insult them as much as we want?

[Bansho64]

Still, why is the most common mindset that Mr. Toriyama is one man, the original author, so we respect him; but Toei is a company with many, many people, that only adapted his work, thus it's okay to insult them as much as we want?

I haven't seen this mindset at all. If anything, I've been seeing Toriyama get a lot of trash from fans lately.

[Esfír Dedragón]

But Toei is a company, Toriyama is a 60 year old man. Well I'm not defending attacking Toei, there is a pretty big difference.

Still, why is the most common mindset that Mr. Toriyama is one man, the original author, so we respect him; but Toei is a company with many, many people, that only adapted his work, thus it's okay to insult them as much as we want?

I think it's more of an issue of Toei knowing better, especially now.

Back then, they had Toriyama's manga and at the very least, they had to adapt pages into animation. Every once in a while, we got filler. Some bad, some good. When it was good, it actually added some detail that made the story move cohesive.

Today, all we have is Toriyama's who-knows-how-detailed-it-is Outline. I would have expected Toei to understand how... difficult... it would be to adapt the outlines without drawn pictures, not counting the character designs he did. It would have been more intelligent for Toei to do some of the things that Toyotaro does, such as having Zamasu watch Goku on GodTube, if there were major plot-holes and/or major retcons in the outline.

Just a thought.

[Soppa Saia People]

But Toei is a company, Toriyama is a 60 year old man. Well I'm not defending attacking Toei, there is a pretty big difference.

Still, why is the most common mindset that Mr. Toriyama is one man, the original author, so we respect him; but Toei is a company with many, many people, that only adapted his work, thus it's okay to insult them as much as we want?

To echo what Bansho64 said, I don't see this mindset, like at all. Toriyama seems to get shit on the most.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

But Toei is a company, Toriyama is a 60 year old man. Well I'm not defending attacking Toei, there is a pretty big difference.

Still, why is the most common mindset that Mr. Toriyama is one man, the original author, so we respect him; but Toei is a company with many, many people, that only adapted his work, thus it's okay to insult them as much as we want?

Not insult, critique. And we can do it no matter what whether it be Toei or Toriyama in charge. Criticism is how things grow. Unless you're talking about the generic "Super iz dum" and the like.

[Anime Kitten]

I haven't seen this mindset at all. If anything, I've been seeing Toriyama get a lot of trash from fans lately.

Indeed he does, but I never said he didn't. What I'm saying is that Toei gets so much hate whenever they do something unpleasant (Commeson Arc, which wasn't even bad), but Mr. Toriyama gets much more respect. Though when it comes to Minus, even the Kanzenshuu community is poorly represented by some who often curse Mr. Toriyama for one little manga chapter.

Point being that people need to stop being so disrespectful to the people who deliver this franchise to us in the first place.

[Bansho64]

Indeed he does, but I never said he didn't. What I'm saying is that Toei gets so much hate whenever they do something unpleasant (Commeson Arc, which wasn't even bad), but Mr. Toriyama gets much more respect. Though when it comes to Minus, even the Kanzenshuu community is poorly represented by some who often curse Mr. Toriyama for one little manga chapter.

Well, you did say this,

Still, why is the most common mindset that Mr. Toriyama is one man, the original author, so we respect him; but Toei is a company with many, many people, that only adapted his work, thus it's okay to insult them as much as we want?

which kinda implies that he doesn't get hate at all but Toei does. Which, I consider to be blatantly untrue. And I wouldn't consider using Minus as an example. It may have been one little manga chapter, but it was a work that still can be critiqued.

I don't see why most of the criticizing seems to be considered hate. And, if anything, Kanzenshuu is represented beautifully with the Minus criticisms. Most of it is written well and actually countered point for point. Matter of fact, Kunzait_83 wrote something that I thought was pretty awesome.
[spoiler]

1) Dragon Ball Minus - Toriyama writes the single worst, most hackneyed story of his career, while doing creative vandalism to what is arguably the anime's all time highlight shining moment (and one that he himself, ironically, admired a great deal). Completely dismantles and tarnishes what used to be one of DB's best characters. Its both a stain on the anime as well as the manga. Never should've been written.

Also Gine's entire character design/concept is borderline offensive and easily one of the single most tone deaf things I've ever seen come out of Toriyama's pen: A devoted and dotting Saiya-jin housewife whose fucking battle armor is skirt-shaped and cooks at home waiting for hubby bardock to get home from a hard day's work (of mass murder). Seriously Toriyama? DB's had its (in fairness, relatively few) brushes with cringe worthy un-PC bullshit back in that day (Popo's blackface design and Blue's pedophilia most primarily), which I was able to more or less acknowledge for what they were without either excusing them (at all) or letting them ruin my enjoyment of anything.

But this is so far beyond obviously trite and knuckle draggingly stupid that its absolutely impossible to write off as "a product of a different culture/era". This was 2014 and Toriyama actually created with a straight face a fucking June Cleaver Stepford Housewife Saiya-jin to be Goku's mom. Fuck off. I'd much rather just stick with the Selypa fanon. Selypa, in her absurdly brief screentime, came across as genuinely cool and a natural-seeming foil for Badrock who was unfazed by and cut straight though his standoff-ish bullshit. Goku's mom being just another tough as nails, battle hardened Saiya-jin grunt who probably conceived him with Bardock on a pile of freshly slaughtered corpses rings as FAR more closer to the mark in terms of what we've always been shown of the Saiya-jin.

Or hell, even if you wanted to go the direct opposite route of that, and have the Saiya-jin's space barbarian-like culture treat their women less like fellow soldiers and more like subservient slaves and a lesser species, that would work and be perfectly fine (for the story and character conceits at play here that is) as well. But if you're gonna do THAT, you gotta fully commit to it and show Gine and other Saiya-jin women dressed in rags (not armor) scrubbing floors and being fearfully sycophantic to the men, who treat them with dismissive condescension and probably slap them around casually. Life for these women should me fucking degrading misery where they're treated as subhuman.

Granted I think the former is far better and less problematically dicey, especially since this is ostensibly a kid's show (with several dumptrucks worth of blood and death, but still), but still I'm just saying I'd accept either/or for the type of characters we're dealing with here.

But making Gine goddamned Harriet Nelson in Saiya-jin skirt-armor preparing a nice, cozy dinner for her man (who genuinely loves her in a traditionally romantic way and treats her like a princess) and contradictingly also being seen by him as an equal? That 1) Makes NO goddamn sense and has ZERO internal consistency whatsoever, 2) whitewashes and softens how brutal and gross the Saiya-jin have always been depicted (walking, musclebound ids concerned only with drinking, fighting, killing, and fucking) and 3) is moronically trying to have its cake and eat it too with regards to Saiya-jin gender dynamics.

Either make the women A) fellow battle hardened soldiers down in the muck with the men (ala Vasquez in Aliens) because the Saiya-jin are so bloodthirsty and single minded to fighting and killing that it never occurs to them that the women should be any different, or B) have the women be looked down upon slaves who're treated like utter garbage (as per any other nominally barbaric, thuggish culture): pick one and stick with it, you can't have a fluffy, feel-good combination of both. That's just the epitome of vapid.

Again, I personally like option A better myself, but I'd have been unfazed by B just as well, since either one works for the Saiya-jin as traditionally presented.

But even Gine aside, this story is just inferior to the anime special in every conceivable way. And even as an entity on its own, it makes the manga less cool by association just due to how blatantly a half-assed afterthought it is. Toriyama, even when he's lazily half-assing it, is capable of far, far, far better than this. This is the undisputed nadir of anything in the "Toriyama manga canon".

[/spoiler]
If that isn't good representation, then I don't know what is.

[Anime Kitten]

Well, you did say this, which kinda implies that he doesn't get hate at all but Toei does.

Apologies for not being clear, I suppose.

Matter of fact, Kunzait_83 wrote something that I thought was pretty awesome.
If that isn't good representation, then I don't know what is.

I've read the post, and it's a horrible exaggeration. I fail to see how someone will refuse to believe that Goku was nice because his parents were, and yet believe that him hitting his head on a rock almost literally transforms him from a ferocious warrior into a friendly child. No disrespect here, but I'm extremely glad for that retcon.

[Soppa Saia People]

Well, you did say this, which kinda implies that he doesn't get hate at all but Toei does.

Apologies for not being clear, I suppose.

Matter of fact, Kunzait_83 wrote something that I thought was pretty awesome.
If that isn't good representation, then I don't know what is.

I've read the post, and it's a horrible exaggeration. I fail to see how someone will refuse to believe that Goku was nice because his parents were, and yet believe that him hitting his head on a rock almost literally transforms him from a ferocious warrior into a friendly child. No disrespect here, but I'm extremely glad for that retcon.

That's a first.
As for the Toei and Toriyama stuff, I love Toriyama, but Minus is the single worst piece of fiction that I've read (I don't read a lot of fiction tho), it fucking sucks.