Why isn't Supreme Kai stronger?

[Captain Strawberry]

He had like 75 million years to train (which I don't know if he did) to beat Buu.

What did he even do in those 75 million years while Buu was away...

[nickzambuto]

Nothing lol

[LightBing]

You mean Kaioshin, right? I don't think Kibito was even around when Boo killed the Kaioshins.

We don't know how strong Kaioshin actually was before. He might have been Freeza level, I think he progressed even if slightly in all that time.
One thing to take into account was that he was alone, until Kibito appeared. He was quite young and received no guidance and likely training from anybody. This is on display in the Boo Arc, he might have acted all mysterious and mighty at the beginning but surely his incompetence surfaced.

He also might have hit a wall with the training methods available to him. This happens all the time in Dragon Ball.

[Captain Strawberry]

You mean Kaioshin, right? I don't think Kibito was even around when Boo killed the Kaioshins.

We don't know how strong Kaioshin actually was before. He might have been Freeza level, I think he progressed even if slightly in all that time.
One thing to take into account was that he was alone, until Kibito appeared. He was quite young and received no guidance and likely training from anybody. This is on display in the Boo Arc, he might have acted all mysterious and mighty at the beginning but surely his incompetence surfaced.

He also might have hit a wall with the training methods available to him. This happens all the time in Dragon Ball.

Thanks

I changed the title lol

I see what you mean. Future Gohan didn't even surpass the androids even with 10 years worth of training, probably because he didn't have a strong enough sparring partner.

[Fishman]

Supreme Kai wasn't stronger because the way that era written didn't pretend characters could just grow infinitely more powerful by "training more". Goku and Vegeta plateaued hard after their stints in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. The only way to grow at all seriously stronger past that was through attaining new transformations that put you through pre-existing ceilings. It's likely no different for Supreme Kai. And as far as we know, he doesn't have any physical or spiritual transformations to reach, so they're likely settled around as strong as they were ever going to be. After fusing with Kibito, they definitely grew exponentially more powerful, at least. I suppose they could also ask Old Kai to "Unleash" their full potential, too. Remember, though, as the apparent only Supreme Kai left alive, East wasn't privy to the significance of Potarra or Old Kai's abilities.

Oh, and I guess if this question is being asked in contrast to Zamasu, your answer should be clear. Zamasu is magically stronger than Supreme Kai ever was Just Because.

[FoolsGil]

He also might have hit a wall with the training methods available to him. This happens all the time in Dragon Ball.

I personally disagree with this. The guy has access to the series's equivalent to Valhalla, millions upon millions of martial artists who do nothing but fight all day. Then there are the lower level Kais who train the mortals. Then there's Whis. If Supreme Kai wanted power, he could have easily got it, even it takes a million years to surpass the wall.

In story reason is the same for a lot of strong guys that aren't Saiyans or sworn rivals: He didn't feel the need to train. He was strong enough, He killed Bibidi and placed the egg on Earth. Majin Buu was the strongest being to exist outside of him, Beers and Whis, and with him in the egg Supreme Kai could just coast for the rest of eternity, believing that no ningin could come close to upsetting the balance and restoring Buu.

[LightBing]

He also might have hit a wall with the training methods available to him. This happens all the time in Dragon Ball.

I personally disagree with this. The guy has access to the series's equivalent to Valhalla, millions upon millions of martial artists who do nothing but fight all day. Then there are the lower level Kais who train the mortals. Then there's Whis. If Supreme Kai wanted power, he could have easily got it, even it takes a million years to surpass the wall.

In story reason is the same for a lot of strong guys that aren't Saiyans or sworn rivals: He didn't feel the need to train. He was strong enough, He killed Bibidi and placed the egg on Earth. Majin Buu was the strongest being to exist outside of him, Beers and Whis, and with him in the egg Supreme Kai could just coast for the rest of eternity, believing that no ningin could come close to upsetting the balance and restoring Buu.

Goku told us that nobody in the Otherworld was comparable to him to do the the fusion, he might have meant the combination of height/power but I took it as: I'm the strongest guy there and nobody else is even close. I think a line or two would be dropped in the Boo Arc if there were any amazing guys there.
Kaioshin would already be much stronger than all the dead warriors.

The Kaios should be no-factors, North Kaio was weaker than Nappa and the others likely fall on the same category.
He could have trained with Whis but would he be accepted, is it even allowed, would he even be able to handle it? In-universe there's a lot of reasons we can come up with.

Your theory is as good as mine, I can see him not training. Since Boo was in an egg and based on Kaioshin's personality, he likely thought that no matter how much he trained he would never be stronger than the monster who decimated the Kaioshins.

We also have no idea of the Kaioshin potential. Imagine he has potential in the same realm as Yamcha. If Yamcha started training now, in 75 million years how strong would he get, with the same methods that brought him to his current status? I certainly don't see Yamcha reaching SSJ3 level.

[Anime Kitten]

He had like 75 million years to train (which I don't know if he did) to beat Buu.

It seems that deities need to train for much longer, as Demigra was "gathering energy" for 75 million years and lost to a Super Saiyan God-tier character. As opposed to Freeza, who went from SSJ tier to SSJB tier in four months. There's a lot of factors to keep in mind, such as Race, position, character, etc.

[Fishman]

He had like 75 million years to train (which I don't know if he did) to beat Buu.

It seems that deities need to train for much longer, as Demigra was "gathering energy" for 75 million years and lost to a Super Saiyan God-tier character. As opposed to Freeza, who went from SSJ tier to SSJB tier in four months. There's a lot of factors to keep in mind, such as Race, position, character, etc.

The most important factor being that Golden Freeza, Super Saiyan Blue, and the likes of Whis outright didn't exist when the Supreme Kai character was conceived.

[FoolsGil]

He had like 75 million years to train (which I don't know if he did) to beat Buu.

It seems that deities need to train for much longer, as Demigra was "gathering energy" for 75 million years and lost to a Super Saiyan God-tier character. As opposed to Freeza, who went from SSJ tier to SSJB tier in four months. There's a lot of factors to keep in mind, such as Race, position, character, etc.

The most important factor being that Golden Freeza, Super Saiyan Blue, and the likes of Whis outright didn't exist when the Supreme Kai character was conceived.

Yes. But that's an answer left in General Discussion, not In-Universe Discussion.

[Wizard Sesame]

Two things: it was more like five million years and he didn't know who Beerus was before Old Kai, so that eliminates Whis as someone to train him.

Personally, I think people drastically underestimate the power that the Saiyans possess. They are freaks of nature, and anyone near them are also freaks. I mean, Freeza was said to be the most powerful in the universe at time, and they needed to at least double in strength to defeat Cell. And then that level, double the most powerful being in the universe, wasn't enough to defeat Buu. In fact, it wasn't even enough to come close to defeating Buu.

Maybe Supreme Kai did train and did get stronger, maybe even doubled the strength he had when Buu first attacked, but without a Super Saiyan hax that allows him to multiply his power by 50, 100 or 400, it simply was not enough to defeat Buu.

[Cipher]

Zamasu's prodigal and only roughly equivalent to a Super Saiyan 2. Kaioshin probably thought Boo's strength was simply a level that couldn't be reached, and he was better off monitoring Bobbidi to prevent Boo's resurrection when that threat emerged.

Also, I love how people act like Whis' training is an over-the-counter pill instead of extremely rigorous training a capricious sociopath chooses to offer to people who already display immeasurable power and may become interesting rivals to Beerus.

[Lionel]

Even if Kaioshin was reaching some unassailable plateau, he could have still requested to learn the various techniques which would enable him to safeguard the universe if the need ever arose again. There's absolutely no reason for him to have not insisted his junior associate teach him the Kaioken. So many potential applications exist with this technique alone. Plus, the name alone should warrant it being considered the poster child of the Kaios' armoury.

[TheMikado]

The real problem is the power inflation. Remember Buu was considered the peak of power and Dabura just under that in all known realms and plains of the universe. Both were surpassed by a SSJ3 in raw power and the Kaioshin wasn't a weakling either.
Prior to this Frieza was considered the strongest in the universe on the physical plain, excluding OtherWorld and the Demon Realms. Cell and the androids were created beings and this solved the issue of a retroactive retcon of the Frieza lines. What amazes me is that years later Toriyama is still able to give a new challenge and not retconning his established lore of power levels by making Dabura from the demon realm and Buu a sealed and mystical being, further even when he conceived them they were not vastly more powerful(actually not at all) than the heroes and really only challenged them through their subsequent unique abilities.

Then comes Super... and everyone is literally ultra powerful all of a sudden when SSJ3 had previously been the peak and was technically powerful enough to beat the most powerful entity known in the universe who had existed since the beginning of time. I know I'm bringing my personal beef into this, but the context is that Supreme Kai IS very very very powerful and really there were only a few entities, not even of the physical realm that exceeded his own strength. Supreme Kai, was for all intents and purposes the most powerful entity in the physical realm for almost 100 million years prior to Cell/SSJ2 and is only exceeded by three/possible 5 (if we count Goten/Trunks) beings in the universe.

It's just that Super's power inflation makes everyone look utter pathetic now.

[phattangent]

He had like 75 million years to train (which I don't know if he did) to beat Buu.
What did he even do in those 75 million years while Buu was away...

Trying to make that GodTube money?

Jokes aside, I think that he was probably stronger than most known beings except his direct enemies (in this case Buu and Dabura). He probably plateaued in strength and was unable to improve beyond that point due to lack of competition. Of course, with DBS, we can throw this idea out the door by considering the GoD Beerus, the ministry of angels that we now know exists, the omni-king Zeno, and perhaps other beings in any of the known universes outside 第７宇宙. Not to mention the makaioshin...

[dragon boss z]

He had like 75 million years to train (which I don't know if he did) to beat Buu.

It seems that deities need to train for much longer, as Demigra was "gathering energy" for 75 million years and lost to a Super Saiyan God-tier character. As opposed to Freeza, who went from SSJ tier to SSJB tier in four months. There's a lot of factors to keep in mind, such as Race, position, character, etc.

Demigra isn't canon so there is really no reason to use him to try and explain this.

[dragon boss z]

Because the supreme Kai is an idiot. Buu was released because of him, and he didn't think much of Goku and Vegeta, but he thought Pui Pui and Yakkon were dangerous.

[Anime Kitten]

Demigra isn't canon so there is really no reason to use him to try and explain this.

First of all, Xenoverse hasn't been confirmed non-canon or canon. There is no official canon. Second, non-canon doesn't mean you can dismiss it for (in this particular case) not giving a valid explanation. It's essentially like saying Ultimate Gohan and Mystic Gohan are non-canon names, so we can't use them.

[dragon boss z]

Demigra isn't canon so there is really no reason to use him to try and explain this.

First of all, Xenoverse hasn't been confirmed non-canon or canon. There is no official canon. Second, non-canon doesn't mean you can dismiss it for (in this particular case) not giving a valid explanation. It's essentially like saying Ultimate Gohan and Mystic Gohan are non-canon names, so we can't use them.

Using a non canon name to describe something that doesn't have an official name is nothing like using a non canon story line to explain something. The name mystic and ultimate Gohan are used so we know what we are talking about. Using non canon logic to explain the canon makes no sense.

Also I know there is no official canon, but using a video game story is going too far. Even filler holds more weight.

[Anime Kitten]

Also I know there is no official canon, but using a video game story is going too far. Even filler holds more weight.

Well... no. Xenoverse is about as logical a DB game as you can get, aside from Online (as I'd presume). You can pretty easily use Demigra as an example in Kaiōshin's situation.