What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Dragonball Black » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:16 pm

Zamasu's biggest mistake was his 0 mortals plan. Why didnt he just blow up the earth? What was the end game of the plan anyway? Kill everybody except for him. 0 Mortals, and 0 immortals. I feel that if the next couple of episodes doesnt answer this, it will be a major plot hole.
So this is kinda how the plan went.
Switch myself in Goku's body, check.
Kill him, check.
Use the new time ring and go to the future, check.
Convince a good zamasu to turn bad and make himself immortal, Check. (This is a glaring hole, seeing as how there would be no way for Goku Blaack to convince future zamasu he was him. And since Zamasu hates mortals, I doubt he would listen.)
Future Goku become immortal, check.
Slowly destroy all the earhtlings one by one, Check.
At the same time, kill all the gods, check.
So whats the end game?
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Dbzk1999 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:23 pm

Kill everyone and rebuild the world in his own twisted image

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Miracles
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:23 pm

Zamasu wanted the earth to remain just wanted the mortals who tainted it zero'd.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Chuquita » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:30 am

I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

My guess at his end game would be a universe with only himself, Future Zamasu, and plants (and maybe animals?).
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:46 am

Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
...Dude; that's going in my sig. That's hilarious :lol:
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Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Razorsaw » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:20 am

well, I have it on good authority that [spoiler]there'd be 0 mortals.[/spoiler]

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:56 am

Dragonball Black wrote:Zamasu's biggest mistake was his 0 mortals plan. Why didnt he just blow up the earth? What was the end game of the plan anyway? Kill everybody except for him. 0 Mortals, and 0 immortals. I feel that if the next couple of episodes doesnt answer this, it will be a major plot hole.
So this is kinda how the plan went.
Switch myself in Goku's body, check.
Kill him, check.
Use the new time ring and go to the future, check.
Convince a good zamasu to turn bad and make himself immortal, Check. (This is a glaring hole, seeing as how there would be no way for Goku Blaack to convince future zamasu he was him. And since Zamasu hates mortals, I doubt he would listen.)
Future Goku become immortal, check.
Slowly destroy all the earhtlings one by one, Check.
At the same time, kill all the gods, check.
So whats the end game?
The end game is saving his universe(s) from the one thing plaguing it, which are the mortals. Zamasu finds beauty in the creation of gods, but feels this beauty is tainted by the violence and destruction of humans. The manga expands on this by emphasizing that he values creatures like earthworms, or at the very least, understands their significance, for example. It's, seemingly, only beings with free will that are alike to the gods that he's opposed to (i.e. "humans"). He killed the gods because they obviously wouldn't agree with him or his ideals.

The anime really does do its best to have him come off as a parody of your typical idealistic villains though, to the point where he feels no different than your average dastardly DB villain, which is a shame because, his hypocrisies aside, it's easy to understand his viewpoints when you stop to think that he isn't just some guy with a god complex; he's a literal god, whose job is to oversee the universe and create, and he was a Kai prior to this, so he's seen the creation of his people go to waste, time and time again, with his own eyes.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:36 pm

O mortal plan=O mortals left
Pretty self explanatory

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:39 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote: The end game is saving his universe(s) from the one thing plaguing it, which are the mortals. Zamasu finds beauty in the creation of gods, but feels this beauty is tainted by the violence and destruction of humans. The manga expands on this by emphasizing that he values creatures like earthworms, or at the very least, understands their significance, for example. It's, seemingly, only beings with free will that are alike to the gods that he's opposed to (i.e. "humans"). He killed the gods because they obviously wouldn't agree with him or his ideals.

The anime really does do its best to have him come off as a parody of your typical idealistic villains though, to the point where he feels no different than your average dastardly DB villain, which is a shame because, his hypocrisies aside, it's easy to understand his viewpoints when you stop to think that he isn't just some guy with a god complex; he's a literal god, whose job is to oversee the universe and create, and he was a Kai prior to this, so he's seen the creation of his people go to waste, time and time again, with his own eyes.
In defense of the anime for a bit, Black did lament the destruction left on Earth in episode 56, calling it a sad sight to behold. Episode 65 completely shat on this where his "utopia" was suddenly fine with leaving the whole place a smoldering rock.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:58 pm

Mazingerdestro wrote:O mortal plan=O mortals left
Pretty self explanatory
Zamasu did a shit job executing his plan then. He could've busted earth to kill all the ningen. Or at least try to get rid of as many weak ningen as possible.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by emi_b7 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:06 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:
Mazingerdestro wrote:O mortal plan=O mortals left
Pretty self explanatory
Zamasu did a shit job executing his plan then. He could've busted earth to kill all the ningen. Or at least try to get rid of as many weak ningen as possible.
But he didn't want to destroy/damage Earth or any planet. I mean, Black spending so much time and having so much trouble finding and killing the humans left on Earth doesn't make a lot of sense. But busting the planet wasn't an option as in was against his ideals.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:50 am

emi_b7 wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
Mazingerdestro wrote:O mortal plan=O mortals left
Pretty self explanatory
Zamasu did a shit job executing his plan then. He could've busted earth to kill all the ningen. Or at least try to get rid of as many weak ningen as possible.
But he didn't want to destroy/damage Earth or any planet. I mean, Black spending so much time and having so much trouble finding and killing the humans left on Earth doesn't make a lot of sense. But busting the planet wasn't an option as in was against his ideals.
Zamasu is a hypocrite piece of shit, ideals are the last thing that matters to him.
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Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by emi_b7 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:43 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:
emi_b7 wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:
Zamasu did a shit job executing his plan then. He could've busted earth to kill all the ningen. Or at least try to get rid of as many weak ningen as possible.
But he didn't want to destroy/damage Earth or any planet. I mean, Black spending so much time and having so much trouble finding and killing the humans left on Earth doesn't make a lot of sense. But busting the planet wasn't an option as in was against his ideals.
Zamasu is a hypocrite piece of shit, ideals are the last thing that matters to him.
What makes him a hypocrate? Not saying he isn't, maybe I'm just not remembering something. His ideals are obviously flawed (I mean, we should be rooting for him if they weren't lol) but I think he was pretty consistent about them.
The one thing I could think right now that would make him a hypocrate was the whole "stealing and using a ningen's body" if he hated them. Buthe explained how he wanted to have a remainder of human's sins or something like that which I think is a decent enough explanation.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:33 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:
Mazingerdestro wrote:O mortal plan=O mortals left
Pretty self explanatory
Zamasu did a shit job executing his plan then. He could've busted earth to kill all the ningen. Or at least try to get rid of as many weak ningen as possible.
I think you missed the point. Zamasu loves the world. He even cried (real tears) when Vegetto told him that he is impure now that he is one with Goku's body.
Zamasu doesn't enjoy destruction, he wants people to die because they show how the God's failed. Basically he finds it awful how gods always excuse humans even when they constantly do mistakes. They fight and kill each other and the God's are like "give them time they will improve". Also he finds it annoying how impure creatures like humans are capable of surpassing God's by using their power. He is no hypocrite, on the contrary he has pure ideals. He is not Cell who does what he wants or Frieza that has no honour.
I wasn't expecting a ningen to get it anyway.....

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:37 am

His possible biggest mistake, is not just asking Super Shenlong to just kill all mortals. I don't believe there is anything stopping Super Shenlong from doing that, so he could have had empty planets unharmed, and got rid of all the mortals just like that.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:00 am

dbzfan7 wrote:His possible biggest mistake, is not just asking Super Shenlong to just kill all mortals. I don't believe there is anything stopping Super Shenlong from doing that, so he could have had empty planets unharmed, and got rid of all the mortals just like that.
It's not a "mistake", it's an intentional character decision. He wants to enact "justice" and show humans, criminals in his eyes, the error of their ways before they are punished. A human who magically dies does not understand why they were killed. Zamasu intends to be the messenger. It's important to separate what "makes sense" to yourself and analyze why certain characters believe in their own actions. Had he been characterized alternatively, that criticism would apply. As it stands, that's his natural motive contextual to the story told. He enjoys addressing the "sins" of those lower beings.
Last edited by Nejishiki on Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Cetra » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:08 am

People are reading way too much into Zamasu's intentions. Zamasu despises mortals. He never even tries to make his view understandable for mortals as in "with this they have a chance to actually survive" and never even considers mortals worthy enough to even live long enough to reconsider their own actions. He does believe in his own justice but even thinking that he would try to lecture people with it is way too much misunderstanding. He just says "you mortals do that" (sometimes) and that's it. Then he blasts them away. There is no meaning behind lecturing someone if there is no one left to learn something out of it. Just as he had no intention to let the Barbarians evolve and learn from their own mistakes and he clearly had no intention in lecturing them. He even wanted them dead the moment he noticed "ah, they do something which seems problematic". He thinks they are fallible and therefore unworthy. Neo Zamas already proved his thinking: "What is right whenever a god does, can be evil when a mortal does". The Zamasus have a very clear view: Gods are there, humans are there and there is only one way to do it, if it is not done this way you are wrong and therefore unworthy. And even if you are a god and prove yourself unworthy by being a problem for me and my ideals, you are considered as not worth living because the world has to work the way I want as it fits my own psychotic views where I have lost myself without even noticing". So, does he consider it a favor for the universe - yes. But that's it. It is not half as deep and "lecturing" as some might think.

Still way more deep than most Dragon Ball villains. His ideal plus his personal grudge that is just enhanced by his ideals is what makes it a bit more deep.
Last edited by Cetra on Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:25 am

For him, it's a waste of time converting them, sure. It's not as if he doesn't gain satisfaction from playing the part of a judgmental god though. I'm not implying extreme lecture, but making humans reflect on their own evils before death. It's not too far removed from praying to a god who won't save you because you "deserve" the misfortune. He even uses a human avatar to portray how one properly uses the gift of the gods. It's hardly over-analyzing or gross misunderstanding. Yes, they may not actually do that and fight back, but that's the lens Zamasu is peeping through. It's spoken through his actions. Otherwise, he wouldn't become frustrated with their continuing resistance over time. His calmness breaks down as events escalate and the entertainment factor diminishes. He's eventually reminded why he found them blasphemous and dangerous in the first place before long.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Cetra » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:37 am

Nejishiki wrote:... but making humans reflect on their own evils before death.
He does it way too rarely to actually have this as main goal. As mentioned, he already saw "oh that is not going the way I would want it, let's destroy them" just as he thought of the Barbarians. And just as he thinks the gods would just be an obstacle for him (or "them" to be more precise) as they would not follow his ideals therefore not worth living.
Nejishiki wrote:Otherwise, he wouldn't become frustrated with their continuing resistance over time.
Of course he gets frustrated. They struggle against his ideals and views of "your place is down there and you do not deserve to live because you are fallible trash".
Nejishiki wrote:His calmness breaks down as events escalate and the entertainment factor diminishes.
You said it perfectly: Entertainment. The Zamasus are incredibly narcissistic. They live under the impression mortals may not decide their own meaning of life. May not get the time to learn. They absolutely and without a doubt consider it as something mortals will never understand or better said, even giving them time to understand is a severe waste of time. They think gods are so glorious and the plan makers that their value and ideals are way higher than anyone else's. And this evolves to an even more narcissistic personality-disorder where "Gods > Mortals" becomes "Us Zamasus, the true gods > Everyone else who just does not know how to live and where there place is". He disrespects the ideals of others so much that he from the very beginning direspects the job of a God of Destruction and decides to do it instead. Granted, someone like Beerus is a lousy choice in the first place but I am talking about Gods of Destructions in the first place and for that one talk with Gowasu it was the Universe 10 God of Destruction. If he would really want to make people truly understand his view he would do a very lousy job. Those humans don't even understand what is going on. They just see a mean person that kills them. That goes even so far that the children think it cannot be a god because gods are not so mean. The context of understanding "you die because you are worthless, now self-reflect" has such low priority.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:48 am

It doesn't need to be a main goal, but a supporting goal. I'm not seeing the issue with him having multiple ideas. Yeah, it's not his primary motivation, but it's still a part of what he does. Killing the gods was not a part of his original frustration, but he developed it as a necessity because they were not following his ideas of justice. He had fun picking off humans one by one, perverting the human spirit, and flaunting his power and immortality before he had to be harshly reminded of his original goal. The main point is that he doesn't need to be singular in his motivations. That's a robotic perspective. I see no problem with most of what you said, but I do disagree that anyone is "looking into to his character too much" when most are reiterating actions he's explicitly established.

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