fexus wrote:So, Toyotaro ruined Zamasu and Black character. What a boring way to go out.
Don't worry, he just needs to keep the power levels consistent and people will love the manga and shit on the anime.
This is true, and sadly we can't have both (Consistent BP and good storyboard)
I don't think the manga is the greatest thing either, it seems this chapter will be underwhelming
zamasu121 wrote:its clear as day that goku is portrayed as a childlike man in both the manga and anime, but everyone thinks he acts like boo arc goku in the manga while the anime ruins his character.
Well, people generally says that Goku has a better portrayal in Super manga than in the anime, which I believed till this recent chapter. No need for this lame joke, Toriyama.
zamasu121 wrote:i wonder what will happen if trunks gets a new form in the manga. would people still call it an asspull?
If it has a good explanation why and proper name is given, then no.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
OLKv3 wrote:People don't hate the form. They hate the fact that the form has no explanation. Trunks just magically gained it and nobody explained anything about it.
So, basically Super Saiyan 3.
No not even close but we had this already.
Actually, it is almost an identical case.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Kishido wrote:
No not even close but we had this already.
Actually, it is almost an identical case.
Too each their own as it seems. And I do not have the time to go with you and others in circles about this.
So now waiting for Heroes or the manga to explain it.
The Future Trunks arc isn't over yet in the anime. They may still provide some kind of explanation.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
LightBing wrote:The kissing joke was kept, that's disappointing. I dislike it quite a bit, like I said when it first appeared in the anime it dehumanizes Goku.
It dehumanises Goku to not have kissed anyone before? That has some unfortunate implications.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
I bet others may have predicted it already, but I will do it too.
I'm 100% sure Vegetto is going to be in the manga. Because there was the "1 hour" retcon and it's impossible Toei would have took such freedom. Also both the manga and the anime have Goku and Vegeta wearing their old armor/gi, that was done on purpose by Toriyama so he didn't have to design a new outfit for Vegetto as he probably liked the old one.
It was also impossible Toei took the freedom to make the "Goku has never kissed someone" scene, and we had confirmation today. It's obvious it was a Toriyama idea and the manga/anima scripts match perfectly. He probably wrote every single word of the gag. Toriyama also *probably* supervises Super, so I'm 100% sure he was ok with the Kaio-Ken being brought back. There's no way they wouldn't have told him, and there's no way he supervises only the manga and not the anime which is the main product.
It's also possible Trunks' new transformation isn't Toei's idea, but I'm not sure about it. Kaio-Ken was surely their and it was explained perfectly, so I think if they took the freedom to give Trunks a new form they would have explained it deeply too. If it was AT's idea, he probably had no idea how to explain it so left it a mystery. Maybe Toyotaro will give Trunks his new form only when he will have to kill Merged Zamasu?
I honestly hope Toei comes out and tells clearly how things work there, so people will stop blaming it on them and consider Toriyama like a God. He is still incredibly good at writing good DB stories but obviously he can't satisfy each of the fans he has, considering his franchise has a huge fanbase. It also looks like he has no editor (maybe Toei is acting like AT's editor?) and the guy is forgetful. DBS is probably never going to be as good as DBZ but is still very good and no episode 66 can change that.
Last edited by emperior on Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball Manga
Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman
Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return
Additional lore from Toriyama
Dragon Ball Daima
LightBing wrote:The kissing joke was kept, that's disappointing. I dislike it quite a bit, like I said when it first appeared in the anime it dehumanizes Goku.
It dehumanises Goku to not have kissed anyone before? That has some unfortunate implications.
I have been saying that since Episode 66 and I got talked about like a dog in that thread.
Also, it seems I wrong. Black didn't reveal his origins. Everyone just happened to correctly guess how Black was created purely based on Zamasu asking Zuno about the Super Dragon Balls and Goku. Whis even figures out that Zamasu must have learned about Goku through the tournament. How? Who knows. Trunks even correctly guessed that Black switched bodies with Goku, which is just contrived as hell. Why would that be his first guess? Also, where did Whis get that picture of Goku Black from?
Overall, how they solved Black's identity based on so little clues reminds me of those Mary Sue Harry Potter fanfics where all the characters figure out the mystery of the book within the first couple of chapters based on stuff that the characters within canon couldn't correctly guess and the Sue only got it right because they have the author's bias of reading the book and having hindsight 20/20.
Even with a strict deadline, this could have been done so much better to the point that I almost preferred if Black just pulled a Cell and told everyone what happened.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
The gag of Goku never kissing is stupid Toriyama or not. At least the anime turned it into an actual misunderstanding joke. As it is in the manga, possibly unaltered, is not even funny. There is nothing done with it. It's just a piece of trivia that doesn't do anything but make Goku's character look bad. Talk about a bad retcon? This is the fucking tip of the iceberg.
Tis a sad day when I have to say the anime did something better but they definitely did this time around.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Tis a sad day when I have to say the anime did something better but they definitely did this time around.
Black seems a bit different from the anime. He was sweating when he saw Vegeta and Goku, completely unlike the anime version who enjoyed fighting them to see how strong he'd get. This one seems more cowardly, much more Zamasu-like, and really undermines the concept of "Goku's body changed Zamasu's personality".
Draconic wrote:The gag of Goku never kissing is stupid Toriyama or not. At least the anime turned it into an actual misunderstanding joke. As it is in the manga, possibly unaltered, is not even funny. There is nothing done with it. It's just a piece of trivia that doesn't do anything but make Goku's character look bad. Talk about a bad retcon? This is the fucking tip of the iceberg.
It's not a retcon, Goku never kissed his wife in the manga. Even in the anime, he never kissed his wife. The closest we have is the implied kiss in the Cell Saga that was filler. Also, Goku is an alien. Why would he have human feelings or emotions. He's 'inhumane' by default.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
ekrolo2 wrote:Tis a sad day when I have to say the anime did something better but they definitely did this time around.
Black seems a bit different from the anime. He was sweating when he saw Vegeta and Goku, completely unlike the anime version who enjoyed fighting them to see how strong he'd get. This one seems more cowardly, much more Zamasu-like, and really undermines the concept of "Goku's body changed Zamasu's personality".
Super is failing us on all fronts now, nothing left to do but fix fic it
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Draconic wrote:The gag of Goku never kissing is stupid Toriyama or not. At least the anime turned it into an actual misunderstanding joke. As it is in the manga, possibly unaltered, is not even funny. There is nothing done with it. It's just a piece of trivia that doesn't do anything but make Goku's character look bad. Talk about a bad retcon? This is the fucking tip of the iceberg.
It's not a retcon, Goku never kissed his wife in the manga. Even in the anime, he never kissed his wife. The closest we have is the implied kiss in the Cell Saga that was filler. Also, Goku is an alien. Why would he have human feelings or emotions. He's 'inhumane' by default.
Unless Chi-Chi outright raped Goku, I don't see any possible way how they made two kids without touching their lips even once. Hell, even is she DID rape him, I don't see how she didn't kiss him. I can believe they never kiss in their spare time, I really can see them at most hugging or whatever, but when making a kid... sorry.
Of course, maybe Chi-Chi just stole his sperm and impregnated herself. Next arc: "Goku's never fucked!".
Draconic wrote:The gag of Goku never kissing is stupid Toriyama or not. At least the anime turned it into an actual misunderstanding joke. As it is in the manga, possibly unaltered, is not even funny. There is nothing done with it. It's just a piece of trivia that doesn't do anything but make Goku's character look bad. Talk about a bad retcon? This is the fucking tip of the iceberg.
It's not a retcon, Goku never kissed his wife in the manga. Even in the anime, he never kissed his wife. The closest we have is the implied kiss in the Cell Saga that was filler. Also, Goku is an alien. Why would he have human feelings or emotions. He's 'inhumane' by default.
Unless Chi-Chi outright raped Goku, I don't see any possible way how they made two kids without touching their lips even once. Hell, even is she DID rape him, I don't see how she didn't kiss him. I can believe they never kiss in their spare time, I really can see them at most hugging or whatever, but when making a kid... sorry.
Of course, maybe Chi-Chi just stole his sperm and impregnated herself. Next arc: "Goku's never fucked!".
We all know Gohan's not his kid
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
HeroR wrote:
It's not a retcon, Goku never kissed his wife in the manga. Even in the anime, he never kissed his wife. The closest we have is the implied kiss in the Cell Saga that was filler. Also, Goku is an alien. Why would he have human feelings or emotions. He's 'inhumane' by default.
Unless Chi-Chi outright raped Goku, I don't see any possible way how they made two kids without touching their lips even once. Hell, even is she DID rape him, I don't see how she didn't kiss him. I can believe they never kiss in their spare time, I really can see them at most hugging or whatever, but when making a kid... sorry.
Of course, maybe Chi-Chi just stole his sperm and impregnated herself. Next arc: "Goku's never fucked!".
We all know Gohan's not his kid
I guess you're reffering to that Yamcha joke?
I propose a new theory. Trunks came back in time and fucked her, explaining his huge potential. That's why Future Gohan trained him, to insure his existence.
Draconic wrote:I guess you're reffering to that Yamcha joke?
I propose a new theory. Trunks came back in time and fucked her, explaining his huge potential. That's why Future Gohan trained him, to insure his existence.
How Red Dwarf of you!
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Tis a sad day when I have to say the anime did something better but they definitely did this time around.
Black seems a bit different from the anime. He was sweating when he saw Vegeta and Goku, completely unlike the anime version who enjoyed fighting them to see how strong he'd get. This one seems more cowardly, much more Zamasu-like, and really undermines the concept of "Goku's body changed Zamasu's personality".
Manga Black is a cowardly little worm. According to Beerus, he chose the future timeline because he was afraid of Beerus (despite successfully killing all the Supreme Kais and he could have easily killed U7's Supreme Kai) and because all the Z-Fighters are dead (despite having Goku's body and could have easily torn apart all the Z-Fighters in the current timeline outside of Vegeta). I mean, why not just wished for immorality and just railed road those stronger than him if he didn't want to fight people equal or stronger than him?
Draconic wrote:
Unless Chi-Chi outright raped Goku, I don't see any possible way how they made two kids without touching their lips even once. Hell, even is she DID rape him, I don't see how she didn't kiss him. I can believe they never kiss in their spare time, I really can see them at most hugging or whatever, but when making a kid... sorry.
Of course, maybe Chi-Chi just stole his sperm and impregnated herself. Next arc: "Goku's never fucked!".
As I said in the Episode 60 thread, it's entirely possible to have sex and children without kissing. I know people who have done it. Of course, no one believe me then, so whatever.
Last edited by HeroR on Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
HeroR wrote:Manga Black is a cowardly little worm. According to Beerus, he chose the future timeline because he was afraid of Beerus (despite successfully killing all the Supreme Kais and he could have easily killed U7's Supreme Kai) and because all the Z-Fighters are dead (despite having Goku's body and could have easily torn apart all the Z-Fighters in the current timeline outside of Vegeta). I mean, why not just wished for immorality and just railed road those stronger than him if he didn't want to fight people equal or stronger than him?
TBF, all versions of Black/Zamasu are morons when you realize they can use the Super Dragon Balls to remove all of the mortals that annoy them so much.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
