"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

See above where someone made the exact same arguments. There are obvious reasons if you're actually paying attention

I didn't say there weren't reasons. Sure, there are reasons. You can try to justify anything. It doesn't mean that it makes sense or that it isn't sloppy writing. The anime covered all of its bases pretty well, the manga didn't.

Which part exactly? Zamasu doesn't seem to have a vendetta against Goku but he is the strongest mortal he knows. If he wanted to specifically find the most powerful mortal he could to destroy mortals that's what he did. What you should be asking is what would he want to be come a mortal at all not why he choose Goku specifically b cause that part actually does make a lot of sense.

[Doctor.]

See above where someone made the exact same arguments. There are obvious reasons if you're actually paying attention

I didn't say there weren't reasons. Sure, there are reasons. You can try to justify anything. It doesn't mean that it makes sense or that it isn't sloppy writing. The anime covered all of its bases pretty well, the manga didn't.

Which part exactly? Zamasu doesn't seem to have a vendetta against Goku but he is the strongest mortal he knows. If he wanted to specifically find the most powerful mortal he could to destroy mortals that's what he did. What you should be asking is what would he want to be come a mortal at all not why he choose Goku specifically b cause that part actually does make a lot of sense.

Fine then, why did Zamasu wanted a mortal body in the first place? In the anime it's pretty clear, it ties in with why he chose Son Goku to begin with.

[OLKv3]

Zamasu's reasons didn't change in the manga. He just didn't fight Goku. He's still interested in his power and that's what he wants. It's the difference between present and Future Zamasu. Future Zamasu doesn't care about fighting. Present Zamasu does

[TheMikado]

I didn't say there weren't reasons. Sure, there are reasons. You can try to justify anything. It doesn't mean that it makes sense or that it isn't sloppy writing. The anime covered all of its bases pretty well, the manga didn't.

Which part exactly? Zamasu doesn't seem to have a vendetta against Goku but he is the strongest mortal he knows. If he wanted to specifically find the most powerful mortal he could to destroy mortals that's what he did. What you should be asking is what would he want to be come a mortal at all not why he choose Goku specifically b cause that part actually does make a lot of sense.

Fine then, why did Zamasu wanted a mortal body in the first place? In the anime it's pretty clear, it ties in with why he chose Son Goku to begin with.

No idea and that motivation is poorly explained. Also for the record you did say there were no reasons in the post mmediately preceding the one where you said you didn't say there were no reasons. No big deal but I would suggest fact checking yourself especially when your posts sit right next to each other.

And again, there's also no reason, unlike the anime, as to why he didn't stole a God's body instead.

[Doctor.]

Which part exactly? Zamasu doesn't seem to have a vendetta against Goku but he is the strongest mortal he knows. If he wanted to specifically find the most powerful mortal he could to destroy mortals that's what he did. What you should be asking is what would he want to be come a mortal at all not why he choose Goku specifically b cause that part actually does make a lot of sense.

Fine then, why did Zamasu wanted a mortal body in the first place? In the anime it's pretty clear, it ties in with why he chose Son Goku to begin with.

No idea and that motivation is poorly explained. Also for the record you did say there were no reasons in the post mmediately preceding the one where you said you didn't say there were no reasons. No big deal but I would suggest fact checking yourself especially when your posts sit right next to each other.

And again, there's also no reason, unlike the anime, as to why he didn't stole a God's body instead.

Uh, no? I was consistent. I said that there were no reasons as to why Zamasu, in the manga, didn't steal a God's body instead of Goku's, but pretty clearly stated that in the anime, there WAS a reason. Then in the next post, I said the same thing...

If you're reffering to the post where I said "There are reasons", I was being ironic. You can justify shit writing with anything, doesn't make it so that the writing is acceptable.

[TheMikado]

then I misread it as Goku and it's a fair point. My point from the beginning is that the motivations for Zamasu were very likely not in the original outline. The fact that you have this created villain with two different origin stories and motivations is bizarre and either Toriyama doesn't care or he doesn't care enough to even give this new villain a consistent back story. As I stated the motivations are poor and I agree it's that but that begs the question of what did Toriyama write for Zamasu and Blacks origins originally?

[LightBing]

Doctor, do you know in which episode Black explained his reasons for wanting Goku's body? The manga might still be behind, after all we've just reached the future.

[OLKv3]

then I misread it as Goku and it's a fair point. My point from the beginning is that the motivations for Zamasu were very likely not in the original outline. The fact that you have this created villain with two different origin stories and motivations is bizarre and either Toriyama doesn't care or he doesn't care enough to even give this new villain a consistent back story. As I stated the motivations are poor and I agree it's that but that begs the question of what did Toriyama write for Zamasu and Blacks origins originally?

I don't know where you got that from. His origin has barely changed

In the manga and anime, Zamasu learns about Goku. In the anime it's losing to him in battle and learning he fought Beerus. In the manga it's hearing that a mortal beats Majin Buu. In both versions, he sees Goku using god power at the U6 tournament and questions Zuno everything about him. We clearly can see that the godtube and Zuno part are in Tori's outline. Toriyama allowed Toyo and Toei to make their own reason on how Zamasu learns of Son Goku. Everything else after is the exact same

[Doctor.]

Doctor, do you know in which episode Black explained his reasons for wanting Goku's body? The manga might still be behind, after all we've just reached the future.

It was last episode, Zamasu tells Vegetto the reason.

Sure, that's a fair point, but we're obviously arguing about what we know. No use in wondering about what may or may not happen. The manga has omitted so much stuff, it can omit this as well.

[TheMikado]

Doctor, do you know in which episode Black explained his reasons for wanting Goku's body? The manga might still be behind, after all we've just reached the future.

It was last episode, Zamasu tells Vegetto the reason.

Sure, that's a fair point, but we're obviously arguing about what we know. No use in wondering about what may or may not happen. The manga has omitted so much stuff, it can omit this as well.

Maybe we should give it a chance to get to the same point that they explained it in the anime.

[TheMikado]

then I misread it as Goku and it's a fair point. My point from the beginning is that the motivations for Zamasu were very likely not in the original outline. The fact that you have this created villain with two different origin stories and motivations is bizarre and either Toriyama doesn't care or he doesn't care enough to even give this new villain a consistent back story. As I stated the motivations are poor and I agree it's that but that begs the question of what did Toriyama write for Zamasu and Blacks origins originally?

I don't know where you got that from. His origin has barely changed

In the manga and anime, Zamasu learns about Goku. In the anime it's losing to him in battle and learning he fought Beerus. In the manga it's hearing that a mortal beats Majin Buu. In both versions, he sees Goku using god power at the U6 tournament and questions Zuno everything about him. We clearly can see that the godtube and Zuno part are in Tori's outline. Toriyama allowed Toyo and Toei to make their own reason on how Zamasu learns of Son Goku. Everything else after is the exact same

It is different, the anime even created this whole time paradox in order to make it work which doesn't exist in the anime.

[Doctor.]

Doctor, do you know in which episode Black explained his reasons for wanting Goku's body? The manga might still be behind, after all we've just reached the future.

It was last episode, Zamasu tells Vegetto the reason.

Sure, that's a fair point, but we're obviously arguing about what we know. No use in wondering about what may or may not happen. The manga has omitted so much stuff, it can omit this as well.

Maybe we should give it a chance to get to the same point that they explained it in the anime.

Nobody gave the anime a chance when the manga explained things earlier than when they happened in the anime, though. Obviously people will discuss what they know.

[OLKv3]

then I misread it as Goku and it's a fair point. My point from the beginning is that the motivations for Zamasu were very likely not in the original outline. The fact that you have this created villain with two different origin stories and motivations is bizarre and either Toriyama doesn't care or he doesn't care enough to even give this new villain a consistent back story. As I stated the motivations are poor and I agree it's that but that begs the question of what did Toriyama write for Zamasu and Blacks origins originally?

I don't know where you got that from. His origin has barely changed

In the manga and anime, Zamasu learns about Goku. In the anime it's losing to him in battle and learning he fought Beerus. In the manga it's hearing that a mortal beats Majin Buu. In both versions, he sees Goku using god power at the U6 tournament and questions Zuno everything about him. We clearly can see that the godtube and Zuno part are in Tori's outline. Toriyama allowed Toyo and Toei to make their own reason on how Zamasu learns of Son Goku. Everything else after is the exact same

It is different, the anime even created this whole time paradox in order to make it work which doesn't exist in the anime.

The anime added Goku Black vs Goku. Other than that, the time paradox isn't that different. Black caused Trunks to go back to the past. Trunks going to the past creates a new timeline where Zamasu is stopped by Beerus before he can use the Dragon Balls. However, because Black used the time ring to jump worlds, he isn't affected. It's the same thing. Black exists when he shouldn't. In fact it matches up with Toei's chart that says time changed when Beerus killed Zamasu.

[phattangent]

In fact it matches up with Toei's chart that says time changed when Beerus killed Zamasu.

Here is a link to the timeline, for those who are interested: http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/special/07.html

[FortuneSSJ]

-Volume 2 cover-

[spoiler][/spoiler]

As a guy that thought the volume 1 cover was perfect, I have to say this one left me speechless. Just amazing! It's only normal I have high standards for the third one now.
I won't deny it. I enjoyed the tournament, but this cover just makes it seem much better than what actually was.

Buu vs Botamo is actually a thing.
Piccolo vs Frost seems to be a interesting fight.
For the first time ever someone drew Cabba with muscles, which just makes him seem stronger.
Monaka's serious face makes him look like a badass and not a gag character.

In other words, this is false advertising!
Champa arc is a good example of a great idea with bad execution. Not only I had to worry about the art/animation problems, but also Toriyama's disappointing writing in some parts.

[phattangent]

Buu vs Botamo is actually a thing.

In other words, this is false advertising!

Before I knew the character's name was ボタモ / Botamo, I referred to him as "Majin Pooh" in anticipation of "Majin Buu vs. Majin Pooh!"

[Kanassa]

Goku: “He says stuff like that now! Some progress, eh?”
Trunks: “Y-Yeah…”

...I don't know why, but this line angers me.

[Basako]

The anime added Goku Black vs Goku. Other than that, the time paradox isn't that different. Black caused Trunks to go back to the past. Trunks going to the past creates a new timeline where Zamasu is stopped by Beerus before he can use the Dragon Balls. However, because Black used the time ring to jump worlds, he isn't affected. It's the same thing. Black exists when he shouldn't. In fact it matches up with Toei's chart that says time changed when Beerus killed Zamasu.

But it's not the same, the anime has a time paradox and the manga just doesn't.

In the anime Trunks went to the other timeline because of Black, Black followed him, Beerus sensed that his ki was similar to Zamasu, they went to see him and there is where he met Goku, which followed in him wanting Goku's body. Maybe it's not even a paradox, more a mistake, because if Beerus knew about him anyway, how did he not kill the Zamasu that did get Goku's body, or, in other words, where is the origin of Black?

In the manga it makes sense. Zamasu learned about Goku on his own, Trunks wasn't there so Beerus didn't know about him, didn't kill him and there is the origin of Black. Then Black escaped to the other timeline and Trunks escaped from him to the first, but some time before. So now Beerus does know about Zamasu and he kills him.

We don't know if Trunks going to the past has created a new timeline or if he is just overwriting the same one. Probably the second one, if not, that means there is a timeline still going on where Zamasu killed Goku, Chichi and Goten and just left. I don't think that's the case.

[OLKv3]

The anime added Goku Black vs Goku. Other than that, the time paradox isn't that different. Black caused Trunks to go back to the past. Trunks going to the past creates a new timeline where Zamasu is stopped by Beerus before he can use the Dragon Balls. However, because Black used the time ring to jump worlds, he isn't affected. It's the same thing. Black exists when he shouldn't. In fact it matches up with Toei's chart that says time changed when Beerus killed Zamasu.

But it's not the same, the anime has a time paradox and the manga just doesn't.

In the anime Trunks went to the other timeline because of Black, Black followed him, Beerus sensed that his ki was similar to Zamasu, they went to see him and there is where he met Goku, which followed in him wanting Goku's body. Maybe it's not even a paradox, more a mistake, because if Beerus knew about him anyway, how did he not kill the Zamasu that did get Goku's body, or, in other words, where is the origin of Black?

In the manga it makes sense. Zamasu learned about Goku on his own, Trunks wasn't there so Beerus didn't know about him, didn't kill him and there is the origin of Black. Then Black escaped to the other timeline and Trunks escaped from him to the first, but some time before. So now Beerus does know about Zamasu and he kills him.

We don't know if Trunks going to the past has created a new timeline or if he is just overwriting the same one. Probably the second one, if not, that means there is a timeline still going on where Zamasu killed Goku, Chichi and Goten and just left. I don't think that's the case.

Trunks time machine doesn't overwrite the past, it just changes it. Taking that along with the info that Black "can travel to paralel worlds" means that Black's original timeline still exists. So there's a timeline with a dead Son Family.

[phattangent]

Trunks time machine doesn't overwrite the past, it just changes it. Taking that along with the info that Black "can travel to paralel worlds" means that Black's original timeline still exists. So there's a timeline with a dead Son Family.

Then what did Black mean when he said he was protected by the Time Ring (in the anime)?