What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Cetra
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Cetra » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:51 am

Nejishiki wrote:It doesn't need to be a main goal, but a supporting goal. I'm not seeing the issue with him having multiple ideas. Yeah, it's not his primary motivation, but it's still a part of what he does. Killing the gods was not a part of his original frustration, but he developed it as a necessity because they were not following his ideas of justice. He had fun picking off humans one by one, perverting the human spirit, and flaunting his power and immortality before he had to be harshly reminded of his original goal. The main point is that he doesn't need to be singular in his motivations. That's a robotic perspective. I see no problem with most of what you said, but I do disagree that anyone is "looking into to his character too much" when most are reiterating actions he's explicitly established.
There is no problem with having more "sub-aspects supporting one super-aspect" at all. I think my posts made it very clear that there were sub-aspects. I just disagree with filtering out several sub-aspects that are no there because the his main drive already rules out certain other aspects to have a certain high level of priority.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:57 am

Addressing them doesn't diminish the main motivation nor does it even place special attention towards them. You perceived it as filtering, but my original post was to point out why he wouldn't consider wishing the humans away instead. In that context, his idea of punishment is relevant. It's an idea, mind you. It's not true to fact because, as you said, no one agrees or understands his actions at a complex level. It's Zamasu alone who has these impressions.
Last edited by Nejishiki on Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:58 am

dbzfan7 wrote:His possible biggest mistake, is not just asking Super Shenlong to just kill all mortals. I don't believe there is anything stopping Super Shenlong from doing that, so he could have had empty planets unharmed, and got rid of all the mortals just like that.
Two mistakes in that plan.
1) Destroyingredients the whole hilumanity would lead to basically a major "destruction" of this reality and a huge "fuck up" in the whole creation. I doubt SS can do that.
2) He doesn't want to just kill. He wants justice. He wants the impure ningen to taste the power of Gods in order to remember how lowly as creatures they are.

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Cetra » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:07 am

Nejishiki wrote:Addressing them doesn't diminish the main motivation nor does it even place special attention towards them. You perceived it as filtering, but my original post was to point out why he wouldn't consider wishing the humans away instead. In that context, his idea of punishment is relevant. It's an idea, mind you. It's not true to fact because, as you said, no one agrees or understands his actions at a complex level. It's Zamasu alone who has these impressions.
You still didn't answer how that context can be relevant or even existent when he does nothing to what you called as letting them "self-reflect". And that is why I said you were "filtering out aspects that are already ruled out by his main drive". The Zamasus have a very low "I tell you so you know why and then I kill you" counter. As a matter of fact most of the time we see it is only said to the Saiyajins, like Trunks and Vegetto. So do I see that he did that? Yes. I see it. However - I also see that he had no interest in doing so in several other moments and the rest of what he does and what he showed to be thinking goes against him even giving some time to self-reflect. I mean - if you want to think as "well, maybe he wants them to think in the afterlife", sure, I give you that but we do not know that. And that is why I disagreed about trying to add one more layer of depth by finding additional characteristics and intentions to find one more link with the rest of his character: What could be understood as what you see is just something that I see the rest of his character and actions go against.

Maybe you understand me now at least a bit better.

If what you want to say though is really just "Hey, I am Zamasu. Realize what I am, what you are and know your place as I am more powerful than you. By the way, die. Face this truth that you failed to see for so long. Face it the only way that you deserve", then - OKAY, I guess. But that is something all villains do.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:27 pm

Mazingerdestro wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:His possible biggest mistake, is not just asking Super Shenlong to just kill all mortals. I don't believe there is anything stopping Super Shenlong from doing that, so he could have had empty planets unharmed, and got rid of all the mortals just like that.
Two mistakes in that plan.
1) Destroyingredients the whole hilumanity would lead to basically a major "destruction" of this reality and a huge "fuck up" in the whole creation. I doubt SS can do that.
2) He doesn't want to just kill. He wants justice. He wants the impure ningen to taste the power of Gods in order to remember how lowly as creatures they are.
Asking Super ShenLong to simply erase all mortals can be undone by using the spheres again. While being so strong at first and suddenly destroy the spheres granted him an open path to progress without any opponent left.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Nejishiki » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:44 am

I wouldn't constitute berating those humans as purposeless. In particular, they consider Earthlings the worst type of humans and claim they were the trigger to their plans. They're making a conscious decision to savor their downfall and we know it's a dishonest answer. Any excuse would have sufficed when picking apart their minds. The roulette of fate landed on "Earthlings" being involved in taboo and that's the ultimate endgame. While loving to hear themselves talk, the passion would be directed in another subject, instead of keying on Earth, if it wasn't personal. They go out of their way to cast judgment on them. Goku Black has the occasional exchange where he ponders when they'll finally quit. Future Zamasu wants them to despair and submit after exhausting their options. Staying true to the text is something I resonate with, yes. It's why I make some of my messages overly literal. I just have to agree to disagree that their actions need to be continuously connected. It's spaced well enough together without bordering on unintentional fatigue. Hypocrisy is part of their characters, too. But no, I'm not making a blanket statement that they're just like everyone else (specifically, anyway).

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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:55 pm

I think that Zamasu was defeated way too early actually. There wasn't any real demonstration or elaboration on what his ideal universe looked like and what benefits it would have had in his mind. He was just treated like a movie villain, where he wanted something but died before they could at least defend how they propose their logic. How Trunks just won the way he did made it way too obvious that he just got the "power of friendship" boost to win, but he never proved that Mortals were not the problem in Zamasu's logic. This overall arc really disappointed me, and I had a feeling Zamasu was going to be just too philosophical for this series' formula. Just like the plan to eradicate the Saiyans. He didn't really get a chance to actually initiate what his plan was at all beyond the lengthy set up for it.
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Re: What was the 0 Mortals Plan?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:07 pm

Kill every mortal in every universe while having every planet they live is intact so he reshape the multiverse in his vision. That's always how I've interpreted his 0 Mortals plan.

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