Was Black the "Evil Goku" you wanted?

[goku the krump dancer]

Salutations folks, I don't post here nearly as much as I used to BUT I still read around fairly often. I'm caught up with pretty much everything in the realm of DB (Super, Video Games, Fanfics etc). That being said though this question has been in my mind I think ever since Black's identity was revealed.

For ages ever since GT came to a close if not before that, quite a number of fans have always pondered on the idea of Evil Goku. Mostly for the type of affect it'll have on the main cast if their beloved Goku just suddenly went on a killing spree, on top of it giving other characters (Namely Vegeta and Gohan) a "Chance to Shine" as many fans like to say.

Now the time has come and gone, we have officially got our Evil Goku, by the way of Goku Black, here's the thing though... Technically, he's not Goku at all. That's just his body but where it counts most (on the inside) is a totally different individual, so much so that a new "Super Saiyan" form is manifested once Zamasu gains full stability inside Goku's body.

On top of that its not as if Goku is still in there somewhere, no its Zamasu through and through no internal struggle between the two or anything, they swapped bodies and that was that. So does it really count? Hell, Vegeta was still himself while being somewhat motivated by the Majin curse and even in GT everyone was pretty much themselves while under Bebi's control save for Vegeta. While brainwashed by the Tuffle android, they were only really reprogrammed to hate Saiyans (Goku) and worship Bebi himself, everything else was left intact.

Black was nothing like Goku, personality wise, even if one was to say that he eventually started to enjoy battle and fighting strong opponents, that's a saiyan trait not a Goku one. So even if he slowly started to think like a saiyan, its just a side effect of having one as a vessel.

While I enjoyed most of the Future Trunks arc, Black doesn't quite fit my personal quota of "Evil Goku" if I had to have one (never really cared for the idea personally). If anything I really like Young Jijji's depiction of Evil Goku in his fan fic DBAfter. It just seems so natural and the most "realistic" (and I use that term very loosely) way I can see Goku becoming a villian with out being possessed by some other being or some how switching bodies with someone which has been done several times by this point now.

So how about you guys? Did Goku Black satisfy your "Evil version of our main hero" hunger or were you expecting something a little more?

[Grimlock]

While I liked Goku Black, he's just another version of Ginyu in Goku's body concept, only improved.

You just can't have an evil version of the main hero if it isn't the main hero himself. Goku Black isn't Goku, it's Zamasu. So in that sense, I still would like to see an evil version of Goku.

[Akyon]

I guess so. I mean I was satisfied when we did it with Turles, or Ginyu in Goku's body, or Bardock to a lesser extent even. Goku Black's probably the more well developed idea of this concept and he's ended up as a surprisingly enjoyable antagonist for what is essentially at first glance a recolour of Goku.

That said; I'm not entirely sure how you could really do an evil Goku outside of having Goku's power and body using Goku's personality.

If you consider Goku Black's love of fighting a strong opponent a Saiyan trait over a particularly Goku trait, then Goku's not got much else to offer as a villainous personality. Heck, you could argue personality wise Buu is more akin to Goku(as a kid in particular) with his love of food, his naivety and his lack of basic understanding of how civilisation and people function.

I've never been convinced that Saiyans like fighting strong opponents anyway.
Sure Goku does, but Vegeta originally only delighted in fighting opponents he knew he could beat. Nappa was terrified of Vegeta opposed to thrilled if he had the chance to fight him; compare that to the way he chuckles like a kiddy in a candy shop as he mows down the inferior Z warriors with such glee.
Raditz turned out to be a total and utter coward if faced with something more powerful than himself. Even now Vegeta fights less out of a desire to fight a strong opponent, and more to prove himself the best.

[ekrolo2]

Black is certainly the most entertaining and memorable of the evil Goku's we've got around in DB. But I feel like he's undermined by Future Zamasu. See, if Black Zamasu was the brutal one as a consequence of being inside Goku's body and inherting the various Saiyan traits asociated with that body and Future Zamasu was the calmer, gentler one of the two, he'd stick out more. But with Future Zamasu around who goes around cackling just as much if not more than Black, it makes this incarnation of evil Goku lose something.

While I liked Goku Black, he's just another version of Ginyu in Goku's body concept, only improved.

You just can't have an evil version of the main hero if it isn't the main hero himself. Goku Black isn't Goku, it's Zamasu. So in that sense, I still would like to see an evil version of Goku.

That's what Perfect Cell is. He's what you would get if Goku was willing to murder people to provoke a potentially strong opponent to fight him.

[Grimlock]

Cell, Mira and Turles are halfway there, but they still aren't a "Goku's evil version". The only way we would get to see "evil" Goku it would be if he doesn't hit his head.

[Lujin_16]

At the beginning i never expected he will become a great villain and so popular like Frieza...I was oh No not a majin Vegeta type again but than it was
different and i enjoyed every moment with him

[Ki Breaker]

First of all I would like to say, the way you wrote your post, it's been a long time since I read such an easy way of expressing the points of the topic. And the paragraphs are also given where it should be, not arbitrarily inserted.
I like it a lot..

That being said onto the topic now..

Black was not an 'evil' Goku persay.. he possessed no qualities of the Goku personality..
At first glance it might seem he is the perfect evil Goku, but that is because we are thinking about his love for battle as the base, it's the most prominent feature executed by Goku after all.

The ideal evil Goku is one who has the Goku personality to the finest, but not his trait of being calm amd gentle.

That however, is difficult to execute, goku came this far because of his gentle and friendly nature in and out of fighting. Thus how will and evil Goku even have remotely close power to Real goku, he wouldn't have any training goku has had which made him the person he is.

Black however gets over that hole completely by his way of coming into existence, only small problem is, we have no key Goku traits in him.

They had to have an 'evil' Goku, I would say black is the best choice made. Anything else wouldn't really fit in with the lore

[Chuquita]

Gokû Black was a very entertaining villain, but he wasn't the Evil Gokû I had hoped for. I wanted a Gokû that was warped by a seemingly endless string of losses. I had a whole head canon where he came from a world where he was the only survivor. He and his friends had defeated a bad guy at the cost of the loss of everyone's lives and the earth's natural resources with the exception of Gokû, who was given the time ring by dubious sources and used it to start hoping timelines to try and find one where everyone was still alive and could help him restore his world, but he ran into hundreds and thousands of worlds that didn't have anything like that first that he started to fear he'd been tricked and later he became depressed and finally succumbed to madness.


But that was before I knew anything about the arc beyond the initial promo art.

[ekrolo2]

Gokû Black was a very entertaining villain, but he wasn't the Evil Gokû I had hoped for. I wanted a Gokû that was warped by a seemingly endless string of losses. I had a whole head canon where he came from a world where he was the only survivor. He and his friends had defeated a bad guy at the cost of the loss of everyone's lives and the earth's natural resources with the exception of Gokû, who was given the time ring by dubious sources and used it to start hoping timelines to try and find one where everyone was still alive and could help him restore his world, but he ran into hundreds and thousands of worlds that didn't have anything like that first that he started to fear he'd been tricked and later he became depressed and finally succumbed to madness.


But that was before I knew anything about the arc beyond the initial promo art.

See, that can plausibly happen to someone like Naruto or Ichigo, but Goku's so oblivious to the implications of things that I have an impossible time seeing him ever go down this path. Especially since this would be Super Goku who's picture is used in the dictionary for pants shiting idiots.

[Animelover5487]

The evil Goku concept has technically been done before with other villains that have similar personality traits (Boo, Beerus, Perfect Cell). I would say Turles but the only thing there is that they are Saiyans who look alike that have a love for battle but aside from those things there personalities are kind of different.

[Alruneia]

Personally, I never wanted to see an Evil Goku, and I was worried about the possible directions the Zamasu arc could take back when it was about to begin. I'm satisfied with Goku Black, though, even if I am slightly disappointed about him actually being Zamasu who's Ginyu'd his way into Goku's body. It's good enough for me, and I now hope we won't see something close to an Evil Goku again.

[Kishido]

I never wanted to see an evil Goku

[Cetra]

Since he is no Evil Goku, no. The evil Goku I want is Goku with his mind influenced by the energy of the Dragon Balls after GT.

[MozillaVulpix]

I never liked the idea of an Evil Goku, just because it lacks any form of subtlety and we've already seen multiple evil counterparts to Goku that were done well. So having Black not actually be Evil Goku was the best possible outcome to me.

[Freezerbaby]

This has been a recurrent topic for years, what an evil goku version would be like, and peope generally think of him as a "what if" alternate timeline where goku never hit his head, I have to say that seeing how they have been meddling with timelines recently, this matter would fit perfectly for both a movie or a filler arc.

So my answer is no, I´m still waiting for the ultimate evil goku version.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Honestly I was worried when I first heard about Goku Black, but the way he was handled in this last arc outweighed the lack of subtlety and oversaturation of evil Gokus for me.

Also, another wonderful performance from Nozawa is never a bad thing.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Yes, to an extent, Goku Black was the perfect Evil Goku.

While Zamasu and Merged Zamasu were the pinnacle of being like General Blue.

[Dbzfan94]

Gokû Black was a very entertaining villain, but he wasn't the Evil Gokû I had hoped for. I wanted a Gokû that was warped by a seemingly endless string of losses. I had a whole head canon where he came from a world where he was the only survivor. He and his friends had defeated a bad guy at the cost of the loss of everyone's lives and the earth's natural resources with the exception of Gokû, who was given the time ring by dubious sources and used it to start hoping timelines to try and find one where everyone was still alive and could help him restore his world, but he ran into hundreds and thousands of worlds that didn't have anything like that first that he started to fear he'd been tricked and later he became depressed and finally succumbed to madness.


But that was before I knew anything about the arc beyond the initial promo art.

I think that's too dark for Dragon Ball but man I love it

[Xeztin]

It IS something very welcomed, I loved the whole gist of it but in my opinion Black shouldn't have been Zamasu at all. I still think they should have used this opportunity to make Goten relevant. Also like the others have said he really isn't Goku but Zamasu and while I LOVE the character, he doesn't really act like the original or Future Zamasu at all. He doesn't deal with tea, and really the only thing he shares with the Green Zamasu's are his hatred of mortals which is strange because Black is Zamasu. I think there could still possibly be an arc with an Evil Goku, but it's not going to be Evil Goku if it isn't our Goku. I liked that Black used Goku's name though!

[Lord Beerus]

Not really, but not in a bad way at all. I mean, Goku Black was an insanely entertaining villain, but it was by his own merit. He really wasn't an actual "Evil Goku" to even begin with. He was just an evil guys soul using Goku's body as a vessel.

I still think the closest we've gotten to an "Evil Goku" is Perfect Cell. I totally believe that if Goku became casually evil he would totally act like Perfect Cell. I mean, throwing a tournament to test his new found strength against the strongest opponents instead of taking the easy route and just blowing up the planet? C'mon, that's totally a thing Goku would do.