Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Frieza was incredibly arrogant as well, but despite being shocked by Kaioken x20 Goku's power he easily stopped his Kamehameha with one hand. The point I'm trying to make with Cell is that much like Zamasu, Cell was shocked Vegeta was able to damage him like that, yet Vegeta still couldn't do shit after his Final Flash. And I'm not saying Merged Zamasu is simply Black + Zamasu, I'm saying the fusion multiplier is really small, something like 1.5x or so.

Freeza is also incredibly durable. He survived a planet blowing up on him when he was cut to pieces, blasted by Goku, and had almost no ki left. If it was anyone else without a healing factor, one of those three things would have killed them. And Freeza had time to get on guard for the Kaioken x20 since Goku punched him first before firing, and Freeza put up his hand to block.

Cell was shocked, but he also dodged at the very last second, because if he didn't, he would have died. If he was fully arrogant and stupid, Vegeta would have killed him right there. Vegeta also didn't have access to the Kaioken, which was how Goku managed to break Merged Zamasu's halo.

And the fusion multiplier is obviously bigger than 1.5x.

[TheUltimateNinja]

And the fusion multiplier is obviously bigger than 1.5x.

It isn't obvious at all, if Zamasu's multiplier was any higher than that he's possibly the biggest jobber in the history of Dragon Ball.

[HeroR]

And the fusion multiplier is obviously bigger than 1.5x.

It isn't obvious at all, if Zamasu's multiplier was any higher than that he's possibly the biggest jobber in the history of Dragon Ball.

He knocked around Vegetto Blue before his mental state stated to collapsed. If we're going to used the word 'jobber', which isn't even used correctly in this context, it would be towards Vegetto.

[ekrolo2]

Am I the only one who realizes that Hit's stronger than everyone in the Black arc minus Zeno?

He takes a KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha and not only gets out of it with minor injury, but he vastly improves his Time Skip to boot and has more than enough stamina left to keep on fighting Goku after that. Merged Zamasu? Goku overpowers him with his regular Blue power then bitch slaps him around with an KKX2 boost, with all of his limbs wrecked minus a leg.

[TheUltimateNinja]

And the fusion multiplier is obviously bigger than 1.5x.

It isn't obvious at all, if Zamasu's multiplier was any higher than that he's possibly the biggest jobber in the history of Dragon Ball.

He knocked around Vegetto Blue before his mental state stated to collapsed. If we're going to used the word 'jobber', which isn't even used correctly in this context, it would be towards Vegetto.

It applies to them both, Zamasu for getting his ass handed to him by mortals that Black was able to match on his own and Vegetto for not being able to oneshot Merged Zamasu. Fusion looks really bad in this arc, we all expected Vegetto Blue to turn out stronger than Beerus and possibly Whis but it turns out he totally sucks.

Am I the only one who realizes that Hit's stronger than everyone in the Black arc minus Zeno?

He takes a KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha and not only gets out of it with minor injury, but he vastly improves his Time Skip to boot and has more than enough stamina left to keep on fighting Goku after that. Merged Zamasu? Goku overpowers him with his regular Blue power then bitch slaps him around with an KKX2 boost, with all of his limbs wrecked minus a leg.

This is exactly what I've been saying, Vegetto and Zamasu are totally unimpressive compared to what we saw in the Tournament.

[ekrolo2]

This is exactly what I've been saying, Vegetto and Zamasu are totally unimpressive compared to what we saw in the Tournament.

I don't even know how Goku overpowering Zamasu makes sense, isn't Vegeta supposed to be stronger than him now?

[TheUltimateNinja]

This is exactly what I've been saying, Vegetto and Zamasu are totally unimpressive compared to what we saw in the Tournament.

I don't even know how Goku overpowering Zamasu makes sense, isn't Vegeta supposed to be stronger than him now?

According to Black, Vegeta was being powered up by his anger so he tells both of them to become even more enraged. Given that Vegeta started out weaker than Goku and the time chamber is shown to not be that effective anymore, he probably only managed to catch up through rage boost. Also, Goku singlehandedly putting out more power than Vegeta and Trunks' Father Son Galick Gun was the most badass moment in Super so I'm totally okay with it.

[HeroR]

It isn't obvious at all, if Zamasu's multiplier was any higher than that he's possibly the biggest jobber in the history of Dragon Ball.

He knocked around Vegetto Blue before his mental state stated to collapsed. If we're going to used the word 'jobber', which isn't even used correctly in this context, it would be towards Vegetto.

It applies to them both, Zamasu for getting his ass handed to him by mortals that Black was able to match on his own and Vegetto for not being able to oneshot Merged Zamasu. Fusion looks really bad in this arc, we all expected Vegetto Blue to turn out stronger than Beerus and possibly Whis but it turns out he totally sucks.

Am I the only one who realizes that Hit's stronger than everyone in the Black arc minus Zeno?

He takes a KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha and not only gets out of it with minor injury, but he vastly improves his Time Skip to boot and has more than enough stamina left to keep on fighting Goku after that. Merged Zamasu? Goku overpowers him with his regular Blue power then bitch slaps him around with an KKX2 boost, with all of his limbs wrecked minus a leg.

This is exactly what I've been saying, Vegetto and Zamasu are totally unimpressive compared to what we saw in the Tournament.

If you go by that logic, all the feats pales compared to Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus who nearly destroying the universe, therefore, everyone must be weaker than them. Also, Hit didn't take KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha. He time stopped it and got the hell out of the way. The Kamehameha never even touched him.

Black was able to handle Goku and Vegeta better than Merged Zamasu since he took them fairly seriously and tried to kill them quickly. Black was arrogant, but he was also pragmatic. Merged Zamasu wasn't. He got mad at an attack that didn't even dent his body, while Black simply wouldn't care. And this all seems to come down to thinking that Vegetto wasn't as overpowered as you thought simply because he didn't make Merged Zamasu his plaything like Super Buu. This is despite Merged Zamasu's power being beyond what the Supreme Kais thought possible.

It's your and other fans fault for wanky Vegetto for over twenty years, thinking he was the unbeatable ultimate warrior who can smack Whis around. So Vegetto doesn't suck, it you guys you utterly overestimated him.

[ekrolo2]

If you go by that logic, all the feats pales compared to Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus nearly destroying the universe, therefore, everyone must be weaker than them.

Black was able to handle Goku and Vegeta better than Merged Zamasu since he took them fairly seriously and tried to kill them quickly. Black was arrogant, but he was also pragmatic. Merged Zamasu wasn't. He got mad at an attack that didn't even dent his body, while Black simply wouldn't care. And this all seems to come down to thinking that Vegetto wasn't as overpowered as you thought simply because he didn't make Merged Zamasu his plaything like Super Buu. This is despite Merged Zamasu's power being beyond what the Supreme Kais thought possible.

It's your and other fans fault for wanky Vegetto for over twenty years, thinking he was the unbeatable ultimate warrior who can smack Whis around. So Vegetto doesn't suck, it you guys you utterly overestimated him.

Yes, me, a guy who doesn't give a flying fuck biscuit about Vegetto or the other fusion characters and used to put his Base as low as Majin Vegeta SS2 is totally pointing Super's shit scaling because I'm annoyed Vegetto isn't hot shit.

This comment is going to get me a warning probably for sarcastic smarminess but I really, REALLY couldn't resist.

[HeroR]

If you go by that logic, all the feats pales compared to Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus nearly destroying the universe, therefore, everyone must be weaker than them.

Black was able to handle Goku and Vegeta better than Merged Zamasu since he took them fairly seriously and tried to kill them quickly. Black was arrogant, but he was also pragmatic. Merged Zamasu wasn't. He got mad at an attack that didn't even dent his body, while Black simply wouldn't care. And this all seems to come down to thinking that Vegetto wasn't as overpowered as you thought simply because he didn't make Merged Zamasu his plaything like Super Buu. This is despite Merged Zamasu's power being beyond what the Supreme Kais thought possible.

It's your and other fans fault for wanky Vegetto for over twenty years, thinking he was the unbeatable ultimate warrior who can smack Whis around. So Vegetto doesn't suck, it you guys you utterly overestimated him.

Yes, me, a guy who doesn't give a flying fuck biscuit about Vegetto or the other fusion characters and used to put his Base as low as Majin Vegeta SS2 is totally pointing Super's shit scaling because I'm annoyed Vegetto isn't hot shit.

This comment is going to get me a warning probably for sarcastic smarminess but I really, REALLY couldn't resist.

I wasn't even talking to you when I said people wank Vegetto. I was referring to this statement:
we all expected Vegetto Blue to turn out stronger than Beerus and possibly Whis but it turns out he totally sucks.

People thought Vegetto would be stronger than Beerus and Whis base solely on his performance against Super Buu. This is despite the fact that we have never seen Beerus or Whis go all out. And Vegetto could be stronger than Beerus. Who knows since the two never even met each other.

You can't call it 'shit scaling' when the only reference point you have about Vegetto is that he's stronger than mutated Merged Zamasu, and we have no freaking clue where mutated Merged Zamasu stands against Beerus and Whis. All we have are character's statements from the Supreme Kais, who are awestruck by Merged Zamasu's power.

[TheUltimateNinja]

If you go by that logic, all the feats pales compared to Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus who nearly destroying the universe, therefore, everyone must be weaker than them. Also, Hit didn't take KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha. He time stopped it and got the hell out of the way. The Kamehameha never even touched him.

Black was able to handle Goku and Vegeta better than Merged Zamasu since he took them fairly seriously and tried to kill them quickly. Black was arrogant, but he was also pragmatic. Merged Zamasu wasn't. He got mad at an attack that didn't even dent his body, while Black simply wouldn't care. And this all seems to come down to thinking that Vegetto wasn't as overpowered as you thought simply because he didn't make Merged Zamasu his plaything like Super Buu. This is despite Merged Zamasu's power being beyond what the Supreme Kais thought possible.

It's your and other fans fault for wanky Vegetto for over twenty years, thinking he was the unbeatable ultimate warrior who can smack Whis around. So Vegetto doesn't suck, it you guys you utterly overestimated him.

Hit did take several hits from Goku without too much damage, and after his improvement he was even able to deal some heavy damage to Goku.

Also, we didn't overestimate Vegetto at all, going by feats alone his base must at the very least be 50x Goku, and that's being incredibly conservative. SSJ3 Goku is 400x Goku, and Super Buu is much stronger than that, so he has to be 500-600x Goku at minumum. And Gohan is much stronger than Buu, so he's got to be at least 700-800x stronger than Goku. Going by this, Buuhan is at least 1,200-1,400x as strong as Base Goku, and given the fact that Vegetto was able to easily annihilate him without even trying, his SSJ must be at least 2,500x Goku which would put his base at 50x Goku.

So even by the most conservative estimates, Buu Arc Vegetto turns out 50x stronger than Goku, in this arc he doesn't even seem 5x stronger.

[HeroR]

If you go by that logic, all the feats pales compared to Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus who nearly destroying the universe, therefore, everyone must be weaker than them. Also, Hit didn't take KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha. He time stopped it and got the hell out of the way. The Kamehameha never even touched him.

Black was able to handle Goku and Vegeta better than Merged Zamasu since he took them fairly seriously and tried to kill them quickly. Black was arrogant, but he was also pragmatic. Merged Zamasu wasn't. He got mad at an attack that didn't even dent his body, while Black simply wouldn't care. And this all seems to come down to thinking that Vegetto wasn't as overpowered as you thought simply because he didn't make Merged Zamasu his plaything like Super Buu. This is despite Merged Zamasu's power being beyond what the Supreme Kais thought possible.

It's your and other fans fault for wanky Vegetto for over twenty years, thinking he was the unbeatable ultimate warrior who can smack Whis around. So Vegetto doesn't suck, it you guys you utterly overestimated him.

Hit did take several hits from Goku without too much damage, and after his improvement he was even able to deal some heavy damage to Goku.

Also, we didn't overestimate Vegetto at all, going by feats alone his base must at the very least be 50x Goku, and that's being incredibly conservative. SSJ3 Goku is 400x Goku, and Super Buu is much stronger than that, so he has to be 500-600x Goku at minumum. And Gohan is much stronger than Buu, so he's got to be at least 700-800x stronger than Goku. Going by this, Buuhan is at least 1,200-1,400x as strong as Base Goku, and given the fact that Vegetto was able to easily annihilate him without even trying, his SSJ must be at least 2,500x Goku which would put his base at 50x Goku.

So even by the most conservative estimates, Buu Arc Vegetto turns out 50x stronger than Goku, in this arc he doesn't even seem 5x stronger.

Hit took Goku's attacks, but he sure in hell didn't take that 10x Kamehameha. Plus, Goku was actually trying to kill Merged Zamasu, while he was just trying to beat Hit. You are also forgetting that Goku is much stronger than he was during the Champa Saga. The Goku we are seeing isn't the same Goku from that story arc.

No, you guys overestimated him, especially with those fan numbers you pulled out of your butt. The only thing we know is that Super Vegetto is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. By how much, who knows, there are no official numbers.

[TheUltimateNinja]

If you go by that logic, all the feats pales compared to Super Saiyan God Goku and Beerus who nearly destroying the universe, therefore, everyone must be weaker than them. Also, Hit didn't take KKX10 enhanced, Blue Goku's Kamehameha. He time stopped it and got the hell out of the way. The Kamehameha never even touched him.

Black was able to handle Goku and Vegeta better than Merged Zamasu since he took them fairly seriously and tried to kill them quickly. Black was arrogant, but he was also pragmatic. Merged Zamasu wasn't. He got mad at an attack that didn't even dent his body, while Black simply wouldn't care. And this all seems to come down to thinking that Vegetto wasn't as overpowered as you thought simply because he didn't make Merged Zamasu his plaything like Super Buu. This is despite Merged Zamasu's power being beyond what the Supreme Kais thought possible.

It's your and other fans fault for wanky Vegetto for over twenty years, thinking he was the unbeatable ultimate warrior who can smack Whis around. So Vegetto doesn't suck, it you guys you utterly overestimated him.

Hit did take several hits from Goku without too much damage, and after his improvement he was even able to deal some heavy damage to Goku.

Also, we didn't overestimate Vegetto at all, going by feats alone his base must at the very least be 50x Goku, and that's being incredibly conservative. SSJ3 Goku is 400x Goku, and Super Buu is much stronger than that, so he has to be 500-600x Goku at minumum. And Gohan is much stronger than Buu, so he's got to be at least 700-800x stronger than Goku. Going by this, Buuhan is at least 1,200-1,400x as strong as Base Goku, and given the fact that Vegetto was able to easily annihilate him without even trying, his SSJ must be at least 2,500x Goku which would put his base at 50x Goku.

So even by the most conservative estimates, Buu Arc Vegetto turns out 50x stronger than Goku, in this arc he doesn't even seem 5x stronger.

Hit took Goku's attacks, but he sure in hell didn't take that 10x Kamehameha. Plus, Goku was actually trying to kill Merged Zamasu, while he was just trying to beat Hit. You are also forgetting that Goku is much stronger than he was during the Champa Saga. The Goku we are seeing isn't the same Goku from that story arc.

No, you guys overestimated him, especially with those fan numbers you pulled out of your butt.

The 400x number is canon, as is the 50x SSJ multiplier. Those are the lowest possible power levels for that arc as if Buu was any weaker Goku could beat him on his own.

[HeroR]

The 400x number is canon, as is the 50x SSJ multiplier. Those are the lowest possible power levels for that arc as if Buu was any weaker Goku could beat him on his own.

As I told another poster, those numbers aren't really canon since no multiplier were ever giving for the Super Saiyan forms in the manga. There is never a point where it was said Saiyan Saiyan 2 was a 2x or Super Saiyan 3 was a 4x. There is nothing. The closest to an official number is Super Saiyan being 50x, since Kaioken x20 could only burn 50% Freeza's hand. Everything else is suspect.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The 400x number is canon, as is the 50x SSJ multiplier. Those are the lowest possible power levels for that arc as if Buu was any weaker Goku could beat him on his own.

As I told another poster, those numbers aren't really canon since no multiplier were ever giving for the Super Saiyan forms in the manga. There is never a point where it was said Saiyan Saiyan 2 was a 2x or Super Saiyan 3 was a 4x. There is nothing. The closest to an official number is Super Saiyan being 50x, since Kaioken x20 could only burn 50% Freeza's hand. Everything else is suspect.

The point is, Buuhan is worlds above SSJ3 Goku, so for Vegetto to thrash him so easily his base must at least be close to SSJ Goku. This isn't even accounting for Gotenks' power.

[HeroR]

The 400x number is canon, as is the 50x SSJ multiplier. Those are the lowest possible power levels for that arc as if Buu was any weaker Goku could beat him on his own.

As I told another poster, those numbers aren't really canon since no multiplier were ever giving for the Super Saiyan forms in the manga. There is never a point where it was said Saiyan Saiyan 2 was a 2x or Super Saiyan 3 was a 4x. There is nothing. The closest to an official number is Super Saiyan being 50x, since Kaioken x20 could only burn 50% Freeza's hand. Everything else is suspect.

The point is, Buuhan is worlds above SSJ3 Goku, so for Vegetto to thrash him so easily his base must at least be close to SSJ Goku. This isn't even accounting for Gotenks' power.

Gotenks' power is a non factor because the fusion broke, making Buu weaker than Gohan. Why do you think Buu absorbed Gohan? And 'worlds' above is vague since a power different of only a couple million can mean the different between being evenly matched to curb stomp. For example Vegeta had a power level of over 30,000 and got the shit beating out of him by Recoom, whose power level was well below 60,000. Vegeta with a power level of 25,000 or 26,000 easily murdered Cui who was at 18,000 and Dodoria who was around 22 or 23,000. So Vegetto could be world above on a small margin.

[TheUltimateNinja]

As I told another poster, those numbers aren't really canon since no multiplier were ever giving for the Super Saiyan forms in the manga. There is never a point where it was said Saiyan Saiyan 2 was a 2x or Super Saiyan 3 was a 4x. There is nothing. The closest to an official number is Super Saiyan being 50x, since Kaioken x20 could only burn 50% Freeza's hand. Everything else is suspect.

The point is, Buuhan is worlds above SSJ3 Goku, so for Vegetto to thrash him so easily his base must at least be close to SSJ Goku. This isn't even accounting for Gotenks' power.

Gotenks' power is a non factor because the fusion broke, making Buu weaker than Gohan. Why do you think Buu absorbed Gohan? And 'worlds' above is vague since a power different of only a couple million can mean the different between being evenly matched to curb stomp. For example Vegeta had a power level of over 30,000 and got the shit beating out of him by Recoom, whose power level was well below 60,000. Vegeta with a power level of 25,000 or 26,000 easily murdered Cui who was at 18,000 and Dodoria who was around 22 or 23,000. So Vegetto could be world above on a small margin.

I meant Gotenks' power as in Super Buu is supposed to be around the same level as SSJ3 Gotenks, and SSJ Gotenks is implied to be on the same level as SSJ3 Goku. If you use that Buuhan becomes far more powerful in comparison to Goku.

[HeroR]

I meant Gotenks' power as in Super Buu is supposed to be around the same level as SSJ3 Gotenks, and SSJ Gotenks is implied to be on the same level as SSJ3 Goku. If you use that Buuhan becomes far more powerful in comparison to Goku.

To be blunt, we don't' know how the power absorption of Buu works since it's never made clear that when he absorb people is it Super + Gotenks = Super Buu with Gotenks or is it a multiplier like Vegetto. There is also the whole thing about Buu can become weaker if he absorb wrong type of person.

Like I said, in Dragon Ball the margin of power doesn't have to be that big for someone to curb stomp. Using Vegeta again, he no sold a blast from Cui, despite there only being a 8,000 different between them. Kaioken x3 Goku kicked Vegeta's ass, despite Goku only being at 24,000 to Vegeta's 18,000, making the different between them only 6,000.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I meant Gotenks' power as in Super Buu is supposed to be around the same level as SSJ3 Gotenks, and SSJ Gotenks is implied to be on the same level as SSJ3 Goku. If you use that Buuhan becomes far more powerful in comparison to Goku.

To be blunt, we don't' know how the power absorption of Buu works since it's never made clear that when he absorb people is it Super + Gotenks = Super Buu with Gotenks or is it a multiplier like Vegetto. There is also the whole thing about Buu can become weaker if he absorb wrong type of person.

Like I said, in Dragon Ball the margin of power doesn't have to be that big for someone to curb stomp. Using Vegeta again, he no sold a blast from Cui, despite there only being a 8,000 different between them. Kaioken x3 Goku kicked Vegeta's ass, despite Goku only being at 24,000 to Vegeta's 18,000, making the different between them only 6,000.

1.33x is still a pretty big gap.

[HeroR]

I meant Gotenks' power as in Super Buu is supposed to be around the same level as SSJ3 Gotenks, and SSJ Gotenks is implied to be on the same level as SSJ3 Goku. If you use that Buuhan becomes far more powerful in comparison to Goku.

To be blunt, we don't' know how the power absorption of Buu works since it's never made clear that when he absorb people is it Super + Gotenks = Super Buu with Gotenks or is it a multiplier like Vegetto. There is also the whole thing about Buu can become weaker if he absorb wrong type of person.

Like I said, in Dragon Ball the margin of power doesn't have to be that big for someone to curb stomp. Using Vegeta again, he no sold a blast from Cui, despite there only being a 8,000 different between them. Kaioken x3 Goku kicked Vegeta's ass, despite Goku only being at 24,000 to Vegeta's 18,000, making the different between them only 6,000.

1.33x is still a pretty big gap.

But it still blow 2x. Heck, if we go what was implied in the manga, Nappa was blow 5,000 with Piccolo around 3,000, and Piccolo got stomped by Nappa.