If he was serious like in Fusion Reborn, Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta would beat anything and anyone from any Dragon Ball canon

[kinisking]

Except that base form Goku in Super is so far above Ssj3 Goku's base form in Z that even without Ssj God or Ssj Blue, mid Super Goku is above anything Ssj4 Goku has going for him. After all, base form copy-Vegeta was shrugging off attacks from Ssj3 Gotenks, who was far stronger than Z-era Ssj3 Goku, and base Goku at that point in Super was able to go toe to toe with copy-Vegeta without issue.

That's why I said he would only lose to ssb goku or stronger.

But he's done nothing to put him on the level of SSJG Goku let one SSGSS tiers

Maybe not feat wise, but strength wise he's definitely stronger than ssjgod Goku. In fact, I'd say ssj4 Goku is aroudn ssjg Goku level. Probably stronger.

[Saiyan007]

[Maybe not feat wise, but strength wise he's definitely stronger than ssjgod Goku. In fact, I'd say ssj4 Goku is around ssjg Goku level. Probably stronger.

Again based on what?

SSJG Goku while not even using his full power was stated to hit Beerus again and again with enough power to destroy the universe.

Are you claiming SSj4 Goku can do something he has never shown or stated he can do?

[Tsufuru]

That's why I said he would only lose to ssb goku or stronger.

But he's done nothing to put him on the level of SSJG Goku let one SSGSS tiers

Maybe not feat wise, but strength wise he's definitely stronger than ssjgod Goku. In fact, I'd say ssj4 Goku is aroudn ssjg Goku level. Probably stronger.

noway in hell ssj4 goku is ssg goku level.
like , no feat , no statement , no powerscalling , no implycation puts him near ssjg level.

[kinisking]

But he's done nothing to put him on the level of SSJG Goku let one SSGSS tiers

Maybe not feat wise, but strength wise he's definitely stronger than ssjgod Goku. In fact, I'd say ssj4 Goku is aroudn ssjg Goku level. Probably stronger.

noway in hell ssj4 goku is ssg goku level.
like , no feat , no statement , no powerscalling , no implycation puts him near ssjg level.

[Maybe not feat wise, but strength wise he's definitely stronger than ssjgod Goku. In fact, I'd say ssj4 Goku is around ssjg Goku level. Probably stronger.

Again based on what?

SSJG Goku while not even using his full power was stated to hit Beerus again and again with enough power to destroy the universe.

Are you claiming SSj4 Goku can do something he has never shown or stated he can do?

Trunks in his new form and Merged Zamasu did nothing like that either. Yet, we know they're stronger than ssg. A feat that will never be shown again really isn't that useful.

Goku in BOG wasn't shown to have made any significant jump from the end of the boo saga. We know this because of Beerus' comment on his base. Since BASE goku in GT is around Goku's ssj3, his ssj4 would be way above that. Around 4000 times that. Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

[Darkprince410]

Goku in BOG wasn't shown to have made any significant jump from the end of the boo saga. We know this because of Beerus' comment on his base. Since BASE goku in GT is around Goku's ssj3, his ssj4 would be way above that. Around 4000 times that. Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

Why would Ssj4 need to be that much stronger than his base form? Given that it's a combination of Ssj and Oozaru, it could just as easily be 500x his base form and fit just as much as what we saw. Besides, why is it not possible for Ssj God to be that much stronger than Ssj3? Apart from being less than ~10% of his strength, we're not told at all how much power Beerus used against Goku when they "fought" on Kaiou's planet, so for all we know, Beerus may have used only 0.0000000001% of his power when taking out Ssj3 Goku. Nothing contradicts him using that little, so it's always possible that he did, and thus Ssj God would be billions of times more powerful than Ssj3 Goku and still be short of Beerus's strength by a drastic amount.

[kinisking]

Goku in BOG wasn't shown to have made any significant jump from the end of the boo saga. We know this because of Beerus' comment on his base. Since BASE goku in GT is around Goku's ssj3, his ssj4 would be way above that. Around 4000 times that. Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

Why would Ssj4 need to be that much stronger than his base form? Given that it's a combination of Ssj and Oozaru, it could just as easily be 500x his base form and fit just as much as what we saw. Besides, why is it not possible for Ssj God to be that much stronger than Ssj3? Apart from being less than ~10% of his strength, we're not told at all how much power Beerus used against Goku when they "fought" on Kaiou's planet, so for all we know, Beerus may have used only 0.0000000001% of his power when taking out Ssj3 Goku. Nothing contradicts him using that little, so it's always possible that he did, and thus Ssj God would be billions of times more powerful than Ssj3 Goku and still be short of Beerus's strength by a drastic amount.

Ssj3 is a 400x increase from base. I think I remember hearing that ssj4 is a 10x increase. If ssj god was so much stronger in comparison to ssj3 then it would make even less sense how well ssj2 Future trunks did in comparison to Goku, Vegeta and Black. We don't know exactly how strong ssj god is, but we do know it can humiliate ssj3 Gotenks. We also know ssj Goku in GT could do the same. There is absolutely no reason to think God is above ssj4 other than something that Toei added in last minute to make the fight seem cooler.

[Saiyan007]

Trunks in his new form and Merged Zamasu did nothing like that either.

Them being above SSJG Goku mean they get the same feat/statements as well.

A feat that will never be shown again really isn't that useful.

It was actually a statement from the narrator,it doesn't need to be shown again.But that statement and a plethora of other feats shown by Goku in the BOG arc still put him miles above Gogeta

Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

Considering SSJG Goku has the power to nearly accidentally destroy the universe as well as the other world while still not even using his full power I would say SSJG is astronomically stronger than ssj4.

[kinisking]

Trunks in his new form and Merged Zamasu did nothing like that either.

Them being above SSJG Goku mean they get the same feat/statements as well.

A feat that will never be shown again really isn't that useful.

It was actually a statement from the narrator,it doesn't need to be shown again.But that statement and a plethora of other feats shown by Goku in the BOG arc still put him miles above Gogeta

Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

Considering SSJG Goku has the power to nearly accidentally destroy the universe as well as the other world while still not even using his full power I would say SSJG is astronomically stronger than ssj4.

The fact that this never happened again and ssjg did nothing of the sort in the movie just shows that it was some Toei fluff not meant to be taken seriously imo. You obviously disagree. They'res not much we can do besides for agree to disagree.

[Saiyan007]

Trunks in his new form and Merged Zamasu did nothing like that either.

Them being above SSJG Goku mean they get the same feat/statements as well.

A feat that will never be shown again really isn't that useful.

It was actually a statement from the narrator,it doesn't need to be shown again.But that statement and a plethora of other feats shown by Goku in the BOG arc still put him miles above Gogeta

Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

Considering SSJG Goku has the power to nearly accidentally destroy the universe as well as the other world while still not even using his full power I would say SSJG is astronomically stronger than ssj4.

The fact that this never happened again and ssjg did nothing of the sort in the movie just shows that it was some Toei fluff not meant to be taken seriously imo. You obviously disagree. They'res not much we can do besides for agree to disagree.

The fact that what happened again?

Are you referring to the shockwaves(which was in the manga as well) because that's not what i'm talking about.

[kinisking]

Them being above SSJG Goku mean they get the same feat/statements as well.



It was actually a statement from the narrator,it doesn't need to be shown again.But that statement and a plethora of other feats shown by Goku in the BOG arc still put him miles above Gogeta



Considering SSJG Goku has the power to nearly accidentally destroy the universe as well as the other world while still not even using his full power I would say SSJG is astronomically stronger than ssj4.

The fact that this never happened again and ssjg did nothing of the sort in the movie just shows that it was some Toei fluff not meant to be taken seriously imo. You obviously disagree. They'res not much we can do besides for agree to disagree.

The fact that what happened again?

Are you referring to the shockwaves(which was in the manga as well) because that's not what i'm talking about.

Pardon me then, what are you referring to?

[Saiyan007]

Pardon me then, what are you referring to?

i'm talking about what the narrator said at the end of episode 13 where he says Goku and Beerus hit each other again and again with the power to destroy the universe.

Not even mentioning Beerus nullifying Universal energy but saying a powered up Goku's khh isn't something he can easily nullify or Goku straight up punching Beerus sphere of destruction

[Darkprince410]

Ssj3 is a 400x increase from base. I think I remember hearing that ssj4 is a 10x increase. If ssj god was so much stronger in comparison to ssj3 then it would make even less sense how well ssj2 Future trunks did in comparison to Goku, Vegeta and Black. We don't know exactly how strong ssj god is, but we do know it can humiliate ssj3 Gotenks. We also know ssj Goku in GT could do the same. There is absolutely no reason to think God is above ssj4 other than something that Toei added in last minute to make the fight seem cooler.

At no point in any official sense is it said that Ssj4 is 10x Ssj3 or any other level for that matter. Prior to Ssj God and Ssj Blue, it was the only form introduced that had no official multiplier ever given to the form, which is why saying that it's 4000x as an established fact is unreliable. Is it possible it's 4000x? Yes, but there's no evidence to that fact.

Trunks only did so well against Ssj2 Goku because it was indicated he wasn't trying with Trunks. He goes to show later he can go toe to toe in his Ssj2 form (while still not giving it his all) against Black, who Trunks indicated was stronger than the level of power Goku had used as Ssj3 only a short time prior.

As for the universe destroying shockwaves, given that the Super manga also has those shockwaves being produced by their battle, it's pretty evident that it wasn't a Toei creation, but a Toriyama one.

[Speedster]

Feats in Dragonball are as bullshit as the power levels. If you go by demonstration of feats alone, then base Gohan in the Buu arc is at least 7 times SLOWER than base Goku in the Saiyan arc. But people choose to ignore this as an inconsistency and go by the obvious power scaling and say that Gohan (Buu arc) >>> Goku in the Saiyan arc. Also saying that GT doesn't have feats is false as GT is a continuation of DBZ and in DBZ kid Buu destroyed several galaxies in the span of a few years, a feat that even for a single galaxy would need at least busting 1000 solar systems per second/attack.

GT’s power scaling starts from base kid Goku being able to beat an opponent stronger than Buu (Rilldo’s first form). Then Goku could transform into SSJ4 which is whatever SSJ3 multiplier is multiplied by at least 10x as Goku went from being weaker than baby Vegeta to become stronger than/on par with Golden Oozaru baby Vegeta (and you can certainly assume that Oozaru Baby Vegeta=10x Baby Vegeta). Then by the Super Android 17 arc SSJ1 Goku became stronger than Majuub and since Majuub was at least equal to SSJ3 Goku in the Baby arc it means Goku had at least another 10x improvement. Then for Gogeta you have the fusion multiplier which is at least another 20x increase (not to mention 100x).

So SSJ4 Gogeta at the end of GT must have at least 1 million times higher power level than kid Buu and given that power levels increase destructive capacity exponentially (see human having a power level of 5 but Roshi with a power level of under 1000 could bust the moon – a feat that requires at 10 septillion times more energy that a human can produce) you can easily scale Gogeta’s destructive capacity to universal levels and beyond. Still I don't think that he is a match for entities higher than Beerus. And Zen-oh can certainly blink SSJ4 Gogeta out of existence.

[Tsufuru]

ssjg goku is millions and millions of times stronger than ssj3 goku.
they showed it and dont need to show it again and again.
with god ki they introduced a whole new level of power.
again no powerscaling , no feat and no statements put ssj4 goku near ssjg goku.

[apex_pretador]

I agree with OP. Gogeta is unstoppable and going to beat anyone from DB canon, except there are few exceptions/characters he can't beat:

• Super Saiyan God gok
• SSB Goku
• SSB Vegeta
• SSB Vegetto
• Future trunks
• Future Zamasu
• Goku Black
• Golden freeza
• Hit
• Merged Zamasu
• KK SSB Goku
• Beerus
• Champa
• Whis
• Vados
• Omni-king's guards
• Grand priest
• Omni king
• Future Omni king
• Future Beerus
• Future Whis
• Probably several unseen gods of destruction

[Doctor.]

Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

SSG Goku is potentially millions of times stronger than SS3 Goku.

He's at the very least over 400x stronger since base Vegetto > SS3 Goku and Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto would be a fly compared to Super Saiyan God.

There's no multiplier for SS4, but considering how only when Baby Vegeta reaches his second stage does Goku say "this is the biggest Ki I've felt", GT very clearly implies that it's only at that point that it surpasses Z's Gohan Boo/SS Vegetto. From SS Vegetto to SSG there's a big difference.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Do you think ssg is 4000x times stronger than ssj3 Goku? No way in hell.

SSG Goku is potentially millions of times stronger than SS3 Goku.

He's at the very least over 400x stronger since base Vegetto > SS3 Goku and Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto would be a fly compared to Super Saiyan God.

There's no multiplier for SS4, but considering how only when Baby Vegeta reaches his second stage does Goku say "this is the biggest Ki I've felt", GT very clearly implies that it's only at that point that it surpasses Z's Gohan Boo/SS Vegetto. From SS Vegetto to SSG there's a big difference.

That only implies he's surpassed Buuhan, not Vegetto. In addition, this implication that SSJ4 is 4,000x stronger than base is false as GT disregards SEG multipliers. In GT SSJ is only a 2-3x multiplier as Rilldo states that Goku wasn't even using half his power when he turned SSJ, so this would suggest a boost of 2.5x or so, therefore the other SSJ forms would be scaled down proportionately.

[Speedster]

As for feats people forget that Buuhan and Super Vegetto in Z (of which GT is continuation) were already at universal destruction level.

DBZ episode 270, min 19-20
Context: Dende explaining to Mr Satan the danger of Buuhan’s actions.
There was a time when Majin Buu was sealed up in the Room of Spirit and Time. Mad with anger, Majin Buu used his power to break through the wall between dimensions, and then came out. Look at this, if you would [pointing out to what is going on with Buuhan]. Having forgotten himself in anger, the extreme power radiating from Majin Buu is causing the space surrounding him to warp! At this rate, the walls between dimensions will break down, and other dimensions will rush through!

DBZ episode 270, min 20-21
Context: SSJ Vegetto after watching Buuhan’s madness results
This is bad! He has gotten completely fired up! If I don't stop him, this universe will be crushed by alternate dimensions!

__________

In GT SSJ is only a 2-3x multiplier as Rilldo states that Goku wasn't even using half his power when he turned SSJ, so this would suggest a boost of 2.5x or so, therefore the other SSJ forms would be scaled down proportionately.

Also in Super Beerus said (to himself) that he used 10% of his power against Rageta who he also compared to SSJ3 Goku as merely 'more entertaining'. Then by projection of orders of magnitude Beerus is at most 200xstronger than Rageta who in turn is at most 25x stronger than SSJ3 Goku so SSG Goku who is less than 10% of Beerus (as KKx10 SSBlue Goku<Beerus) should had been at best a 300x multiplier upon SSJ3. Is that how you want to play?

SSJ3 Goku=0.02
Rageta=0.5
SSJG Goku=6
SSJBlue Goku=7.5
Suppresed Beerus=10
SSJBlue KKx10 Goku=75
Beerus 100%=100

Besides this talk about “not even half of my/your power” is quite common in Dragonball. You had the same malarkey used by Piccolo Daimao back in Dragonball and again by Freeza when he went 50%. It means absolutely nothing. Also how do you know Rildo was referring to the scouter scale anyway? In the manga in the kili scale SSJ1 is merely a 3-5 times multiplier. Goku went from stronger than Yakkon (800) to 3000. Or are you expecting me to believe that the author’s intention was to have SSJ1 Goku being able to go to 40,000 in that scale while at the same time he needed an SSJ2 burst to beat Yakkon and while Dabura who is SSJ2 level (or at the very least SSJ1.75 level) was already surprised by a level of 3000?

Also in Super, SSJ2 was referred to as “tens of times” stronger than base which the most common way to interpret is not as 100x but rather than somewhere in the range 40-70x. Also what is to tell us that SSJ multipliers do not offer equal boosts from one another? Like SSJ1=8x base and SSJ2=8xSSJ1 for a combined 64x multiplier for SSJ2?

[Darkprince410]

Also in Super Beerus said (to himself) that he used 10% of his power against Rageta who he also compared to SSJ3 Goku as merely 'more entertaining'. Then by projection of orders of magnitude Beerus is at most 200xstronger than Rageta who in turn is at most 25x stronger than SSJ3 Goku so SSG Goku who is less than 10% of Beerus (as KKx10 SSBlue Goku<Beerus) should had been at best a 300x multiplier upon SSJ3. Is that how you want to play?

How are you getting him being "at most" 25x from what he said about Vegeta in comparison to Goku. The only thing that can be taken from what was said was Vegeta was stronger, and thus more entertaining, than Goku was. Nothing about the context of that even remotely implies that they were close to one another power wise.

[Speedster]

How are you getting him being "at most" 25x from what he said about Vegeta in comparison to Goku.

By order of magnitude reasoning. And I was even quite generous as I should had said 10x stronger than SSJ3 Goku but I said 25x in order to give Vegeta a nice 100x boost relative to his regular SSJ2 form.