Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

Doesn't the manga imply that the Saiyan's are above Piccolo in Base?

The manga also implies that the Saiyans did not improve considerably in the 7 year peacetime, so they would have to have already surpassed Piccolo in the Cell Arc, and I don't think any base Saiyan was even close to Piccolo at the Cell Games.

Exactly, Piccolo performs better than SS Goku so unless Goku's Super Saiyan is inferior to his superior than Piccolo base state, it doesn't work

Not counting BoG, I usually have them Base Saiyan's anywhere between early Android arc SS Goku to Kamiccolo.

I have their base forms post BoG being a bit weaker than that level, between SSJ Yardrat Goku and Androids Arc SSJ Trunks.

[LightBing]

Does the manga actually imply the Base Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo? There's some ambiguity but overall it shows that Piccolo is above them.

- There's the Vegeta line, which can be interpret in two ways: One he means everybody, the other he only refers to the Saiyans. I go with the later interpretation, since he mentions "if nobody turns SSJ".
- Dabra's only picking the strongest people while everybody is in base. This one is so full of holes. First they are supposed to be hiding their Ki, so whatever interpretation Drabra has it' likely to be wrong. Even assuming that it isn't because of this detail, the rest of the arc him and Babidi show their utter incompetence measuring the power of their enemies. They thought Pui-Pui was gonna solo the Saiyans?! Just to give the more extreme example. They aren't reliable.
- Piccolo comes on top while the kids are in base, inside Boo. This one needs a bit of power-scaling. The kids were already close enough to make Gohan sweat and that's even before the RoSaT, so they should be getting close enough to Goku and Vegeta. Since they are both mentioning as not being that much stronger than Cell Games Gohan.

I might be missing one or two other implications. Still this seems to point much more in the direction that Piccolo is above the Base Saiyans.

Is the following quote enough to justify Gohan behind unable to turn SSJ2 against Dabra?

Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P8.1
Context: as Kibito revives Gohan
Kibito: “Um…! He still hasn’t reached full power…This is bottomless power…At any rate, to think that there would be a human who moved with such gigantic, pure energy…This is why they wanted it…”

[DanielSSJ]

Is the following quote enough to justify Gohan behind unable to turn SSJ2 against Dabra?

Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P8.1
Context: as Kibito revives Gohan
Kibito: “Um…! He still hasn’t reached full power…This is bottomless power…At any rate, to think that there would be a human who moved with such gigantic, pure energy…This is why they wanted it…”

It's possible, but I imagine that it had more to do with the fact that since Gohan isn't practiced in using the form, he can't just pop into it like Goku and Vegeta can. He has to have time to build up his power before he can transform. Kibito let him power up. Dabra wouldn't. Then theres also the possibility that Gohan was still a little agitated over Videl and Spopovich's fight when he was facing Kibito, which aided his transformation. By the time he squared off with Dabra, he had plenty of time to calm down. Or hey, it could be a combination of all three holding him back.

[ekrolo2]

Is the following quote enough to justify Gohan behind unable to turn SSJ2 against Dabra?

Chapter: 445 (DBZ 251), P8.1
Context: as Kibito revives Gohan
Kibito: “Um…! He still hasn’t reached full power…This is bottomless power…At any rate, to think that there would be a human who moved with such gigantic, pure energy…This is why they wanted it…”

It's possible, but I imagine that it had more to do with the fact that since Gohan isn't practiced in using the form, he can't just pop into it like Goku and Vegeta can. He has to have time to build up his power before he can transform. Kibito let him power up. Dabra wouldn't. Then theres also the possibility that Gohan was still a little agitated over Videl and Spopovich's fight when he was facing Kibito, which aided his transformation. By the time he squared off with Dabra, he had plenty of time to calm down. Or hey, it could be a combination of all three holding him back.

I also assumed Gohan getting worked up over Videls injuries probably let him tap into SS2 easier than he normally would.

[Sailor Haumea]

Here's a challenge:

Incorporate power scaling with GT being post-Super.

[DanielSSJ]

Here's a challenge:

Incorporate power scaling with GT being post-Super.

*Head explodes just thinking about it*

[ekrolo2]

Here's a challenge:

Incorporate power scaling with GT being post-Super.

Vegeta's mustache > everyone from GT & Super combined.

[DanielSSJ]

Vegeta's mustache > everyone from GT & Super combined.

Vegeta's razor > Vegeta's moustache > everyone from GT and Super combined.

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta's mustache > everyone from GT & Super combined.

Vegeta's razor > Vegeta's moustache > everyone from GT and Super combined.

Nah, Vegeta's moustache powered down for the razor to cut it

[Noah]

Is the following quote enough to justify Gohan behind unable to turn SSJ2 against Dabra?/quote]

What makes you think he was unable?

Here's a challenge:

Incorporate power scaling with GT being post-Super.

That's not so bad, I mean it could explain how Goku (GT) is so strong in his Base, but in Super he's even greater than that, but he was getting old in GT, could we use this excuse for a degrading power theory?

[Sailor Haumea]

Is the following quote enough to justify Gohan behind unable to turn SSJ2 against Dabra?/quote]

What makes you think he was unable?

Here's a challenge:

Incorporate power scaling with GT being post-Super.

That's not so bad, I mean it could explain how Goku (GT) is so strong in his Base, but in Super he's even greater than that, but he was getting old in GT, could we use this excuse for a degrading power theory?

My God...

You're a genius!

[apex_pretador]

Here's a challenge:

Incorporate power scaling with GT being post-Super.

It is not impossible.

After the death of everyone in the multiverse, Goku is the only person remaining. He uses super dragon-balls to restore everyone back in time to BoG and make it such that beerus meeting never happened and everyone (including him) has no memories.

Since Goku is on earth, they detect Sorbet trying to wake up freeza, and defeat him, Tagoma and shisami.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Alright, here's a DBGT list:

Spoiler:

Goku: 24,000,000,000
Uub: 20,000,000,000
Kid Goku: 12,000,000,000
Trunks: 5,600,000,000
Goten: 5,600,000,000
Pan: 100,000,000
Ledgic: 12,000,000,000
SSJ Goku: 30,000,000,000
Muchi Muchi: 8,000,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 14,000,000,000
Luud (Level 2): 10,000,000,000
Luud (Level 3): 15,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Goku: 12,000,000,000
Rilldo: 14,000,000,000
SSJ Goku: 30,000,000,000
Meta Rilldo: 28,000,000,000
Goten: 5,600,000,000
SSJ Goten: 14,000,000,000
Gohan: 8,000,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 20,000,000,000
Vegeta: 10,000,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 25,000,000,000
Buu: 10,000,000,000
Bra: 60,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 50,000,000,000
Baby Vegeta: 60,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta: 80,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta 2: 100,000,000,000
Majuub: 75,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku (Tail): 60,000,000,000
Goku (Exhausted): 8,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Goku: 200,000,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 200,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Vegeta: 250,000,000,000
Full Power SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Piccolo: 15,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Goku: 12,000,000,000
Trunks: 5,600,000,000
Vegeta: 10,000,000,000
Frieza: 120,000,000
Cell: 8,000,000,000
17: 8,500,000,000
Hell fighter 17: 8,500,000,000
Majuub: 75,000,000,000
Gero: 50,000,000
Super 17: 170,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 37,500,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 30,000,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Super 17 (Energy): 340,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Haze Shenron: 50,000,000
Pan (Weakened): 35,000,000
Goku (Weakened): 40,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Rage Shenron: 15,000,000,000
Oceanus Shenron: 70,000,000
Naturon Shenron: 40,000,000
Naturon Shenron (Pan): 40,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron: 24,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron (True form): 240,000,000,000
Eis Shenron: 200,000,000,000
Syn Shenron: 300,000,000,000
Ultra Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku: 400,000,000,000
Omega Shenron: 2,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 Vegeta: 250,000,000,000
SSJ4 Gogeta: 5,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron (Six Balls): 900,000,000,000

[PelicanDynasty]

DragonBall Power Ratings

PLs in the original series make absolutely zero sense if you ask me so I'm just going to make up a scale to show how strong I think everyone is relative to one another. My ratings take into account power, speed and techniques. Passive stuff like Monster Carrot's touch or Bacterian's stench are not included. Consider these a rough draft, there will be a volume 2 at some point in the future, I basically just came up with all of these in like 15 minutes. Feedback is appreciated.

First Hunt for the DBs
[spoiler]Bulma: 1
Oolong: 1
Turtle: .1
Bear Thief: 15
Goku: 50
Yamcha: 25
Chi-Chi: 5 (If I recall her helmet does all the work)
Monster Carrot: 20
Ox-King: 50 (This one's pretty much a blind guess)
Goku Gone Apeshit: 200[/spoiler]

21st WMAT
[spoiler]Krillin Before Training: 20
Roshi: 100
Orin Temple Guys: 22
Bacterian: 30
Nam: 50
Giran: 45
Ranfan: 25
Yamcha: 50
Krillin Post Training: 50
Goku: 100
Jackie Chun (Hulked Up): 250[/spoiler]

Red Ribbon Army
[spoiler]Colonel Silver: 25
General Blue: 100
Metallitron: 60
Buyon: 120
Murasaki: 40
Android 8: 100 (Another guess here, who knows what this guy was capable of)
Bora: 40
Upa: 2
Black in Mech: 60
Bruce Lee: 4
Pirate Robot: 70
Korin: 130
Tao: 180
Goku (Final Assault on RRA): 250
Krillin (Pirate Cave): 120[/spoiler]

Baba Tournament
[spoiler]Fangs: 100
Invisible Man: 60
Bandages: 300
Devilman: 300 (Shows no improvement over Bandages besides his beam attack as far as I know)
Gohan: 320
Krillin: 150
Yamcha: 140
Goku: 350[/spoiler]

22nd WMAT
[spoiler]Yamcha: 200
Krillin: 200
Chiaotzu: 150
Tien:400
Goku: 400
Jackie Chun: 300 (Must've gotten stronger since 21st TB, since he could barely handle Goku then and can now sort of hang with Tien)
Chappa: 45
Man-Wolf: 35
Pamput: 40
Crane Hermit: 180[/spoiler]

King Piccolo
[spoiler]Tambourine: 300
Yajirobe: 275
Cymbal: 200
Drum: 450
Old Piccolo: 475
Young Piccolo: 700
Goku (Post-Water): 725[/spoiler]

23rd WMAT
[spoiler]Goku: 1000
Krillin: 500
Piccolo Jr.: 985
Kami: 600
Popo: 250
Tien: 700
Chi-Chi: 250
Cyborg Tao: 500[/spoiler]

[Sailor Haumea]

Alright, here's a DBGT list:

Spoiler:

Goku: 24,000,000,000
Uub: 20,000,000,000
Kid Goku: 12,000,000,000
Trunks: 5,600,000,000
Goten: 5,600,000,000
Pan: 100,000,000
Ledgic: 12,000,000,000
SSJ Goku: 30,000,000,000
Muchi Muchi: 8,000,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 14,000,000,000
Luud (Level 2): 10,000,000,000
Luud (Level 3): 15,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Goku: 12,000,000,000
Rilldo: 14,000,000,000
SSJ Goku: 30,000,000,000
Meta Rilldo: 28,000,000,000
Goten: 5,600,000,000
SSJ Goten: 14,000,000,000
Gohan: 8,000,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 20,000,000,000
Vegeta: 10,000,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 25,000,000,000
Buu: 10,000,000,000
Bra: 60,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 50,000,000,000
Baby Vegeta: 60,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta: 80,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta 2: 100,000,000,000
Majuub: 75,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku (Tail): 60,000,000,000
Goku (Exhausted): 8,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Goku: 200,000,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 200,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Vegeta: 250,000,000,000
Full Power SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Piccolo: 15,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Goku: 12,000,000,000
Trunks: 5,600,000,000
Vegeta: 10,000,000,000
Frieza: 120,000,000
Cell: 8,000,000,000
17: 8,500,000,000
Hell fighter 17: 8,500,000,000
Majuub: 75,000,000,000
Gero: 50,000,000
Super 17: 170,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 37,500,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 30,000,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Super 17 (Energy): 340,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Haze Shenron: 50,000,000
Pan (Weakened): 35,000,000
Goku (Weakened): 40,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Rage Shenron: 15,000,000,000
Oceanus Shenron: 70,000,000
Naturon Shenron: 40,000,000
Naturon Shenron (Pan): 40,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron: 24,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron (True form): 240,000,000,000
Eis Shenron: 200,000,000,000
Syn Shenron: 300,000,000,000
Ultra Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku: 400,000,000,000
Omega Shenron: 2,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 Vegeta: 250,000,000,000
SSJ4 Gogeta: 5,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron (Six Balls): 900,000,000,000

Is this scaled to be in line with Super and EoZ?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Alright, here's a DBGT list:

Spoiler:

Goku: 24,000,000,000
Uub: 20,000,000,000
Kid Goku: 12,000,000,000
Trunks: 5,600,000,000
Goten: 5,600,000,000
Pan: 100,000,000
Ledgic: 12,000,000,000
SSJ Goku: 30,000,000,000
Muchi Muchi: 8,000,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 14,000,000,000
Luud (Level 2): 10,000,000,000
Luud (Level 3): 15,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Goku: 12,000,000,000
Rilldo: 14,000,000,000
SSJ Goku: 30,000,000,000
Meta Rilldo: 28,000,000,000
Goten: 5,600,000,000
SSJ Goten: 14,000,000,000
Gohan: 8,000,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 20,000,000,000
Vegeta: 10,000,000,000
SSJ Vegeta: 25,000,000,000
Buu: 10,000,000,000
Bra: 60,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 50,000,000,000
Baby Vegeta: 60,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta: 80,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta 2: 100,000,000,000
Majuub: 75,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku (Tail): 60,000,000,000
Goku (Exhausted): 8,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Goku: 200,000,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 200,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Vegeta: 250,000,000,000
Full Power SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Piccolo: 15,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Goku: 12,000,000,000
Trunks: 5,600,000,000
Vegeta: 10,000,000,000
Frieza: 120,000,000
Cell: 8,000,000,000
17: 8,500,000,000
Hell fighter 17: 8,500,000,000
Majuub: 75,000,000,000
Gero: 50,000,000
Super 17: 170,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 37,500,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 30,000,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Super 17 (Energy): 340,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Haze Shenron: 50,000,000
Pan (Weakened): 35,000,000
Goku (Weakened): 40,000,000
SSJ4 Goku: 300,000,000,000
Rage Shenron: 15,000,000,000
Oceanus Shenron: 70,000,000
Naturon Shenron: 40,000,000
Naturon Shenron (Pan): 40,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron: 24,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron (True form): 240,000,000,000
Eis Shenron: 200,000,000,000
Syn Shenron: 300,000,000,000
Ultra Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku: 400,000,000,000
Omega Shenron: 2,000,000,000,000
SSJ4 Vegeta: 250,000,000,000
SSJ4 Gogeta: 5,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron (Six Balls): 900,000,000,000

Is this scaled to be in line with Super and EoZ?

Only EoZ. My logic for this list is based on Goku (GT) being stronger than Buu, SSJ4 being as strong as Super Vegetto, and Rilldo's implication that SSJ is less than a 3x multiplier.

[ekrolo2]

Only EoZ. My logic for this list is based on Goku (GT) being stronger than Buu, SSJ4 being as strong as Super Vegetto, and Rilldo's implication that SSJ is less than a 3x multiplier.

That's the general assumption I make about GTs multipliers too. Goku can seemingly tap into his SS power without actually using the form so I usually chalk up his insanely strong base & low SS multipliers to him trying to recreate Gohan's ultimate form for himself.

[apex_pretador]

[spoiler]

I think finally, Anime power levels from DBS have started making sense. I can make a power level list based solely on Anime, with no issues and only minor inconsistencies.

Anyone wants me to do a power level list based on Anime? I'll use Base goten as a scale.

Why Base Goten? He's totally irrelevant.

I think finally, Anime power levels from DBS have started making sense. I can make a power level list based solely on Anime, with no issues and only minor inconsistencies.

Anyone wants me to do a power level list based on Anime? I'll use Base goten as a scale.

Yep! But how about using Namek Freeza as scale instead? Or just putting up his level as a reference?
Congratulations on making your list!

I think finally, Anime power levels from DBS have started making sense. I can make a power level list based solely on Anime, with no issues and only minor inconsistencies.

Anyone wants me to do a power level list based on Anime? I'll use Base goten as a scale.

Yeah I would like to see yours, I will also do one myself

I will do this list after this week's episode airs. I hope you all review it.
I am using base goten because it will be easy to use and using namek freeza would make it difficult (like Goku = 0.34, vegeta = 0.35 etc)

Don't worry, the 3 big bads would not be forgotten.

[/spoiler]
Okay, here it comes:

Dragon ball super anime power level list, reviews and feedback appreciated

References:
- Base goten = 1 (buu arc, pre WMAT training)
- Kid buu (unrestrained full power) = 2000
- Perfect cell = 200
- Freeza = 20 (100%, uninjured)
- Multiplier (unfused saiyans) = 50x , 100x , 400x base for (mastered) SS1, SS2, SS3 respectively
- Super buu = fat buu + Kid buu
- Buff buu = South Kaioshin + Kid buu

Part 1: Buu arc

[spoiler]

• Piccolo = 120
• SS goku = 200 , SS2 = 400 , SS3 = 1200 (against fat buu)
• Skinny buu = 1000
• Fat buu = 650 (vs vegeta), 1000 (max angry), 650 (post split)
• Super buu = 2650 , 2770 (piccolo absorbed)
• SS Gotenks = 750
• SS Gotenks (post ROSAT) = 1500 , SS3 gotenks = 3300
• Buutenks = 6070
• Mystic Gohan = 3600
• Buuhan = 6372
• SUPER vegetto = 15000 (Suppressed) , Full power = 20,000
• Kid buu = 1600 (initially formed) , 1700 (fighting) , 2000 (full power, pushing spirit bomb)
• SS3 goku = 1600 (full power) , over 1800 (supercharged)

[/spoiler]

Part 2: Battle of gods:

[spoiler]

• Goku SS3 = 4000, base = 10 (half of FP freeza)
• Vegeta SS2 = 1000 (greater than fat buu)
• Piccolo = 122 (little improvement)
• Raging vegeta = 10,000
• Beerus (heavily suppreseed) = 25,000
• Goku (everyone's ki) = 22,000
• SSG Goku (initial) = 10,000,000
• SSG Goku = 40,000,000, full power = 55,700,000
• Beerus (suppressed) = 40,000,000 and increasing according to battle needs
• Beerus 100% = 60,000,000 (lying), potentially close to 10%

[/spoiler]

Part 3: Revival of freeza

[spoiler]

• Piccolo = 124
• Tagoma = 250, Ginyu = 280
• SS Gotenks = 1400 (a bit weaker than before)
• SS Gohan = 1200, exhausted after moments = 940
• First form freeza = 1600
• Final form freeza (suppressed) = 14,000, hypothetical full power* = 1,000,000
• Goku (base) = 15,000
• Blue Goku = 57,000,000
• Golden freeza = 65,000,000

* Freeza heavily implied he can easily take on Super Saiyan goku without going golden[/spoiler]

Part 4: Inter-universal tournament

[spoiler]

• Botamo and Magetta = Hard to place
• Frost (first form) = 3000, assault form = 9600, final form = 25,000, tired = 18,000
• Piccolo = 2200, Special Beam canon = 20,000
• Goku (base) = 7000 (suppressed) , Super Saiyan (heavily suppressed) = 90,000
• Cabba (base) = 4000 , Unmastered Super Saiyan = 100,000
• Hit = 1,000,000 (suppressed) , 53,000,000 (unsuppressed) , 66,000,000 (fully improved)
• SSB Goku = 60,000,000 , battle worn = 55,000,000
• KK x10 SSB Goku = 550,000,000 , post Kamehameha = 400,000,000 and rapidly dropping (Hit was really lucky to have survived that kamehameha)
• Beerus and Champa = Above 550,000,000[/spoiler]

Part 5: Black arc

[spoiler]

• SS3 gotenks = 3100
• Copy vegeta = 28,000
• Base goku* = 28,000 (full power)
• Heaily suppressed Beerus (monaka costume) = 25,000*
  Goku vs trunks:
• Super Saiyan 2 goku = 1,800,000
• Super Saiyan 3 goku = 3,800,000
• Future trunks = 300,000 (SS2) , 3,000 (base)
  Goku vs Zamasu:
• Unsuppressed SS2 goku = 2,800,000
• Goku Black = 3,400,000, in future = 4,000,000
• Zamasu = 2,000,000
  In future:
• Goku Black (full power) = 4,200,000
• Super Saiyan (Rose) = 210,000,000
• Super Saiyan blue = 120,000,000
• Future Zamasu = 20,000,000
• Future trunks = 35,000 (base) , 3,500,000 (SS2) , 7,000,000 (mastered SS2) , 140,000,000 (that weird form)
• Vegeta (trained) = 180,000,000
• Merged Zamasu (initial) = 460,000,000
• Merged Zamasu (powered up after goku and vegetrunks did damage him = 1,000,000,000
• Super Vegetto blue = 2,400,000,000
• Merged Zamasu (after vegetto damaged him) = 400,000,000
• Future trunks = 140,000,000 , Super Spirit bomb sword** = 480,000,000
• Zeno = 1970,000,000,000,000,000,000

* Goku was fighting evenly with heavily suppressed beerus and he had yet to power-up in base. This proves Goku (base) > Heavily suppressed beerus
** Future trunks with super spirit bomb was able to bisect Merged Zamasu because he became incredibly unstable and the pure good power of spirit bomb, not because he was actually farstronger[/spoiler]

[Rubens]

Only EoZ. My logic for this list is based on Goku (GT) being stronger than Buu, SSJ4 being as strong as Super Vegetto, and Rilldo's implication that SSJ is less than a 3x multiplier.

That's the general assumption I make about GTs multipliers too. Goku can seemingly tap into his SS power without actually using the form so I usually chalk up his insanely strong base & low SS multipliers to him trying to recreate Gohan's ultimate form for himself.

Why not using this idea on DBZ too? It would go along with the Goku vs Yakon part when Babbidi reads their powers (he read ssj Goku with 3000 kiri and Yakon with 800 - this means that the latter is 3.75x weaker and if Goku's base was around 3x less than the ssj form, it would make sense). And you could explain the lower multiplier, when compared to Namek ssj Goku, with their training in the RoSaT before the Cell games. As far as I can see, it comes together.

[DanielSSJ]

Why not using this idea on DBZ too? It would go along with the Goku vs Yakon part when Babbidi reads their powers (he read ssj Goku with 3000 kiri and Yakon with 800 - this means that the latter is 3.75x weaker and if Goku's base was around 3x less than the ssj form, it would make sense). And you could explain the lower multiplier, when compared to Namek ssj Goku, with their training in the RoSaT before the Cell games. As far as I can see, it comes together.

Because Goku's still weaker than Freeza in his normal form. Besides, 800 and 3,000 are both commonly used in Japanese as a symbolic way of saying "an enormous amount". So the joke is that Toriyama is saying that they're both really strong, in a roundabout way.

In universe explanation, Goku isn't at full power here.