Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[perucho1990]

The plot calls for basically everything when it comes to power levels and mystical power ups in Super.

True, there is a lot of examples:

Vegeta
Roshi
Tagoma
Ginyu
Frieza
Piccolo
U6 Team
Copy Vegeta
Trunks
Black

[Doctor.]

Any talented writers here willing to rewrite Super with a well explained power structure?

Well, if you remove the "talented" part, a Super with a fairly consistent power structure already exists, it's the manga.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Any talented writers here willing to rewrite Super with a well explained power structure?

Well, if you remove the "talented" part, a Super with a fairly consistent power structure already exists, it's the manga.

What a burn.

[omaro34]

Any talented writers here willing to rewrite Super with a well explained power structure?

Well, if you remove the "talented" part, a Super with a fairly consistent power structure already exists, it's the manga.

I wouldn't be interested in a power structure, but re-writing Super to produce better Arcs? Definitely I can. The time travelling stuff was far too confusing to fully grasp.

[Bullza]

That would be totally ridiculous if they were actually that powerful, I feel like the 2 base theory is supported by the manga somewhat, and generally whenever they use SSGod in a manga scene they're using God ki in the anime equivalent.

It's not ridiculous because it's just a fictional series that's made to entertain. There's no need for any speculation on what Trunks did to get so strong or if he'd mastered SSJ2 or anything like that.

He was made as strong as the plot required him to be and he apparently trained to reach that level. It's so simple it's just that the fans have to put logic and numbers to it all and the people who actually write this stuff don't take it nearly as seriously.

If people can accept that Tagoma got so strong in 4 months then why can't Trunks have got so strong in 10 years? People are making it more confusing than it ever needed to be. He's just that strong.

You can call it bad writing if you want. The manga does make more sense but that's how it is and people need to accept it rather than making up theories just because they don't like it.

[perucho1990]

It's not ridiculous because it's just a fictional series that's made to entertain. There's no need for any speculation on what Trunks did to get so strong or if he'd mastered SSJ2 or anything like that.

He was made as strong as the plot required him to be and he apparently trained to reach that level. It's so simple it's just that the fans have to put logic and numbers to it all and the people who actually write this stuff don't take it nearly as seriously.

If people can accept that Tagoma got so strong in 4 months then why can't Trunks have got so strong in 10 years? People are making it more confusing than it ever needed to be. He's just that strong.

You can call it bad writing if you want. The manga does make more sense but that's how it is and people need to accept it rather than making up theories just because they don't like it.

Right.

It wouldnt have made sense if Trunks was going to be weaker than Cabba and Magetta, who are around BoG SSJ Goku with God Ki if we go via Toei powerscaling, Trunks reached God-tier when he traveled back to the past.

Besides, Frieza in Golden Form was never capable of sensing Ki but he was that strong that he could keep up with SSJB Goku(those were Whis words IIRC).

[TheMikado]

Any talented writers here willing to rewrite Super with a well explained power structure?

Well, if you remove the "talented" part, a Super with a fairly consistent power structure already exists, it's the manga.

What a burn.

But why was the burn necessary though?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Well, if you remove the "talented" part, a Super with a fairly consistent power structure already exists, it's the manga.

What a burn.

But why was the burn necessary though?

It wasn't, but it was delivered anyway.

[TheMikado]

Manga's powerscalling differs from the anime. There's none of the "Goku absorbs Super Saiyan God into his base/Super Saiyan form" concept, SSG is just treated as another transformation, above SS3.

SS2 Trunks is slightly below SS3 Goku as a result (I say SS3 and not SS2, because Trunks in the manga has found a way to improve the power of SS2, kind of like what Goku and Gohan did in the Cell Games with SS1).

But it also happened in the BoG Movie, so if there is one to blame it would be Toriyama tbh. Thats why Toei had no other choice but make all of U6 team "God-Tier" level.

I don't blame anyone but Toriyama. He's the one who probably completely forgot about the concept in its entirety while he wrote the U6 and Black arcs, and Toytaro managed to find a way around it while Toei didn't.

No i actually blame both Toriyama and Toei. I'm totally guessing but the way production was handled it sounds like Toei agreed to just adapt the first two months while Toriyama came use with new arcs, by the time (if) Toriyama may have have changed his mind on the power scaling the other parts of the series were probably already done.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Has current SSBlue Goku surpassed Kaioken Goku from the tournament?

[Bullza]

He might have doubled his strenght now to surpass regular Kaioken Goku back at the Tournament but I highly doubt he's surpassed his Kaioken x10 strenght. His only means of powering up since the Tournament was that time he got angry.

I think I posted something like this before.

SSJB Goku Kaioken (FT) - 12
Merged Zamasu - 11
SSJB Goku Kaioken x10 (U6) - 10
SSJB Goku (FT) - 6
SSJB Goku (U6) - 1

But seeing as I doubt he actually just used the Kaioken x2 when he attacked Zamasu then I doubt that'd be the case anymore.

[TheUltimateNinja]

He might have doubled his strenght now to surpass regular Kaioken Goku back at the Tournament but I highly doubt he's surpassed his Kaioken x10 strenght. His only means of powering up since the Tournament was that time he got angry.

I think I posted something like this before.

SSJB Goku Kaioken (FT) - 12
Merged Zamasu - 11
SSJB Goku Kaioken x10 (U6) - 10
SSJB Goku (FT) - 6
SSJB Goku (U6) - 1

But seeing as I doubt he actually just used the Kaioken x2 when he attacked Zamasu then I doubt that'd be the case anymore.

But Goku Black was stated to be strongest, which would place him above both Kaioken x10 Goku and Hit.

[Bullza]

But Goku Black was stated to be strongest, which would place him above both Kaioken x10 Goku and Hit.

Yeah but that was just the opinion of the producer that was likely just answered on the spot, I doubt he was taking into consideration details like Kaioken x10. He didn't mention Champa or Zeno etc so I wouldn't pay too much mind to that.

Blacks definitely stronger than Hit because he is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue but I would highly doubt that Goku or Vegeta have grown over 10 times more powerful from so little. Goku just got mad and Vegeta trained for 6 months and that's it.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But Goku Black was stated to be strongest, which would place him above both Kaioken x10 Goku and Hit.

Yeah but that was just the opinion of the producer that was likely just answered on the spot, I doubt he was taking into consideration details like Kaioken x10. He didn't mention Champa or Zeno etc so I wouldn't pay too much mind to that.

Blacks definitely stronger than Hit because he is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue but I would highly doubt that Goku or Vegeta have grown over 10 times more powerful from so little. Goku just got mad and Vegeta trained for 6 months and that's it.

Hit is also much stronger than SSBlue in the anime.

[GodKaio-Ken]

But Goku Black was stated to be strongest, which would place him above both Kaioken x10 Goku and Hit.

Yeah but that was just the opinion of the producer that was likely just answered on the spot, I doubt he was taking into consideration details like Kaioken x10. He didn't mention Champa or Zeno etc so I wouldn't pay too much mind to that.

Blacks definitely stronger than Hit because he is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue but I would highly doubt that Goku or Vegeta have grown over 10 times more powerful from so little. Goku just got mad and Vegeta trained for 6 months and that's it.

Hit is also much stronger than SSBlue in the anime.

Yes and No.

Hit actually isn't that strong comparatively . He just has an incredibly hacked ability which allows him to keep up. Without his Time Skip I doubt Hit could beat someone like Buu.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Yeah but that was just the opinion of the producer that was likely just answered on the spot, I doubt he was taking into consideration details like Kaioken x10. He didn't mention Champa or Zeno etc so I wouldn't pay too much mind to that.

Blacks definitely stronger than Hit because he is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue but I would highly doubt that Goku or Vegeta have grown over 10 times more powerful from so little. Goku just got mad and Vegeta trained for 6 months and that's it.

Hit is also much stronger than SSBlue in the anime.

Yes and No.

Hit actually isn't that strong comparatively . He just has an incredibly hacked ability which allows him to keep up. Without his Time Skip I doubt Hit could beat someone like Buu.

Hit would one-shot Buu. He's capable of dealing damage to SSBlue Kkx10 Goku who is hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than Buu.

[perucho1990]

I don't blame anyone but Toriyama. He's the one who probably completely forgot about the concept in its entirety while he wrote the U6 and Black arcs, and Toytaro managed to find a way around it while Toei didn't.

No i actually blame both Toriyama and Toei. I'm totally guessing but the way production was handled it sounds like Toei agreed to just adapt the first two months while Toriyama came use with new arcs, by the time (if) Toriyama may have have changed his mind on the power scaling the other parts of the series were probably already done.

Besides, making all of U6 God-Tier it was the only way to not make them look like a team full of scrubs.

They were very underwhelming in the manga.

I still see both Goku and Vegeta below U6 SSJBKKX10 Goku because, Potaras got a big nerf(both Vegetto and Merged Zamasu clearly show it), his immortality was the main reason Merged Zamasu was a serious threat for the Multiverse.

Hit could defeat Black because timestop+ assasin technique = gg.

Debatable vs Merged Zamasu and Super Trunks(without genkidama sword), since both dont know how to deal with hax.

Timestop is a very op ability and Hit said he could still continue to improve it.

[HeroR]

Besides, making all of U6 God-Tier it was the only way to not make them look like a team full of scrubs.

They were very underwhelming in the manga.

I still see both Goku and Vegeta below U6 SSJBKKX10 Goku because, Potaras got a big nerf(both Vegetto and Merged Zamasu clearly show it), his immortality was the main reason Merged Zamasu was a serious threat for the Multiverse.

Hit could defeat Black because timestop+ assasin technique = gg.

Debatable vs Merged Zamasu and Super Trunks(without genkidama sword), since both dont know how to deal with hax.

Timestop is a very op ability and Hit said he could still continue to improve it.

We have never seen seen Hit'a assasssin techniques, so you're giving him a win based on an unknown.

Fusion also wasn't nerf. It just wasn't as overpowered as some made it because of how Vegetto trashed Super Buu. You also keep failing to account for Merged Zamasu's arrogance and he wasn't fighting seriously until Goku broke his halo.

Finally, Trunks wasn't that strong in the anime when he first went to the past. He couldn't sense God ki and couldn't until he gained a form that put him on par with Vegeta and Goku. If Trunks' base form was really equal to them, he would have sensed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta in Episode 55. He didn't until he sense Vegetto Blue in Episode 66. Hit and Freeza also sensed God ki, despite not having it themselves.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Besides, making all of U6 God-Tier it was the only way to not make them look like a team full of scrubs.

They were very underwhelming in the manga.

I still see both Goku and Vegeta below U6 SSJBKKX10 Goku because, Potaras got a big nerf(both Vegetto and Merged Zamasu clearly show it), his immortality was the main reason Merged Zamasu was a serious threat for the Multiverse.

Hit could defeat Black because timestop+ assasin technique = gg.

Debatable vs Merged Zamasu and Super Trunks(without genkidama sword), since both dont know how to deal with hax.

Timestop is a very op ability and Hit said he could still continue to improve it.

Hit was improving his power as well, not just his time skip. Goku comments on how Hit's attacks hurt more after he improves his time skip.

[perucho1990]

HeroR, u have a link/scan when Freeza says he can feel Gokus Ki? Because I dont remember Freeza saying he could sense Goku Ki. I only remember Whis saying Frieza got strong enough to fight with someone with God Ki.

Do u see Trunks(before "training with Vegeta") below Raged Vegeta?


Ultimate Ninja, thanks for the clarification. It makes Hit live to the hype of Legendary Assasin. Basically to defeat Hit, u have to outhax him(Champa has his hakai ability and Goku did it for a bit with KKX10).