Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[FortuneSSJ]

-Episode 69-
At least Toei is doing the right thing and outsourcing this episodes. Bu I'm disappointed how they used Wanpack for the boring Shelong episode and this one, a crossover between two iconics works from Toriyama, we have TAP. Seriously Toei...

This episode wasn't outsourced, TAP works on most episodes of Super.

Isn't TAP - Toei Animation Philippines? An outsourcing team that give us the ugly stuff like episode 24 and 45 when paired with Kitano?
I thought they didn't belong to the main staff.

I think for a Super episode it is more or less the same. 300 cuts and 3000~4000 key animation drawings is the standard for a TV episode. It's also the norm in Toei, right?
As for the movies, I have no idea. I don't think any of the 2 Dragon Ball movies were allowed 76000 drawings, but I could be wrong.

Why wouldn't they be allowed to have more than 76000 drawings? Because of time restraints? budget?

[ArchedThunder]

Isn't TAP - Toei Animation Philippines? An outsourcing team that give us the ugly stuff like episode 24 and 45 when paired with Kitano?
I thought they didn't belong to the main staff.

TAP supports the staff, they don't do episodes themselves. To give you an idea, out of the 69 episodes of Super TAP has worked on 47 of them. This episode had a fair few of Super's staff on it (not a huge amount mind you) including a few of the show's top talents.
http://www.animatorscorner.com/animatio ... isode-9636
But with how little most of them are seen in the episode I'm guessing that Nashizawa did most of the episode himself, or maybe TAP did I guess. We don't really know what Nashizawa's style or talent are right now, but TAP being in charge of most of the episode would explain why the art was all over the place.

Speaking of staff, this episode had Kusama Hideoki on it, his second episode of Super. I have no idea what his actual animation ability is, but he was the second credited animator on episode 66 so he might be someone good and it's always nice to have more regulars. We also saw Sato Tomoko as an animator for the first time since episode 24.

[Gashif Aldi]

-Episode 69-
At least Toei is doing the right thing and outsourcing this episodes. Bu I'm disappointed how they used Wanpack for the boring Shelong episode and this one, a crossover between two iconics works from Toriyama, we have TAP. Seriously Toei...

This episode wasn't outsourced, TAP works on most episodes of Super.

Isn't TAP - Toei Animation Philippines? An outsourcing team that give us the ugly stuff like episode 24 and 45 when paired with Kitano?
I thought they didn't belong to the main staff.

I think for a Super episode it is more or less the same. 300 cuts and 3000~4000 key animation drawings is the standard for a TV episode. It's also the norm in Toei, right?
As for the movies, I have no idea. I don't think any of the 2 Dragon Ball movies were allowed 76000 drawings, but I could be wrong.

Why wouldn't they be allowed to have more than 76000 drawings? Because of time restraints? budget?

Dude, One Piece Film Gold had a 5 minutes Shida scenes. Dang, that's outrages. I feel like TOEI is putting too much effort in it, and have forgotten there is another project that actually needs more attention. But, One Piece Film Gold project have finished before DBS right?

[JulieYBM]

I think for a Super episode it is more or less the same. 300 cuts and 3000~4000 key animation drawings is the standard for a TV episode. It's also the norm in Toei, right?
As for the movies, I have no idea. I don't think any of the 2 Dragon Ball movies were allowed 76000 drawings, but I could be wrong.

Why wouldn't they be allowed to have more than 76000 drawings? Because of time restraints? budget?

Pretty much time and money. One Piece Film Gold must've had a pretty well done schedule if Shida Naotoshi was able to do a four minute fight scene. One Piece films are a huge event, while the last two Dragon Ball films, aside from being rush jobs, have been assigned weak main staff. Dragon Ball films also have fewer good animators and they do less cuts.

Dragon Ball isn't a very big priority, but after Dragon Ball Super I can't imagine that isn't even more evident. All that matters to executives is money.

[ArchedThunder]

The last two episodes haven't had recaps, very strange. You'd think they'd do huge recaps to help out the staff after 66.

[Gashif Aldi]

I think for a Super episode it is more or less the same. 300 cuts and 3000~4000 key animation drawings is the standard for a TV episode. It's also the norm in Toei, right?
As for the movies, I have no idea. I don't think any of the 2 Dragon Ball movies were allowed 76000 drawings, but I could be wrong.

Why wouldn't they be allowed to have more than 76000 drawings? Because of time restraints? budget?

Pretty much time and money. One Piece Film Gold must've had a pretty well done schedule if Shida Naotoshi was able to do a four minute fight scene. One Piece films are a huge event, while the last two Dragon Ball films, aside from being rush jobs, have been assigned weak main staff. Dragon Ball films also have fewer good animators and they do less cuts.

Dragon Ball isn't a very big priority, but after Dragon Ball Super I can't imagine that isn't even more evident. All that matters to executives is money.

I don't know why. But I'm jealous seeing studio like KyoAni they have so many projects, then the PV for Violet Evergarden animation is like wtf? I mean TOEI is already full, I mean they're really full of projects. They're working on a world popularity. I don't know why, but there's always something that's gonna happen to a studio like TOEI. Disbanded, caught in fire, earthquakes, tsunami, anything that'll change their minds to hand over the project to some good studio or actually uses money for TV Slots. Geez, I'm sorry guys. I feel like I need to go there and actually help them.
What DBS need is an actual hiatus for a few months, giving TOEI, their storyboards, animators more time.
Now, here I'm thinking. Who's actually responsible for this? The executives? Bandai? or TOEI itself? I mean they're really in a crisis. Sorry if I had gone too far.

Edit: I actually had a stomach ache, while thinking about the animation. I actually really loved Dragon Ball. It's just the pacing and storyboards got affected because the animation can't keep up.

[Sodhi]

After Kai, they would've lost that timeslot otherwise. It's just unfortunate that concept of Super came really late in the game. Mostly because of success of ROF and Toriyama ready to continue the story.

[JulieYBM]

It's everybody's fault. Bandai wasn't to sell merchandise as soon as possible, as that is where the money lies. Toei Animation needs to fill a timeslot or risk losing it to another production committee. Shueisha needs to monetize it's evergreen intellectual property and a thirty minute weekly commercial is the perfect chance to do that. Toei Animation has multiple projects running at once because they need to have projects in production to pay their staff. Toei Animation needs a huge staff to handle so many productions, which means it needs more staff to produce more stuff, which means it needs more projects to sustain more staff, which means it needs more staff to sustain the higher number of projects. It's a self-repeating cycle. Kyouto Animation is in that sweet spot where they are able to produce their projects without rushing due to careful producing and maintaining relationships. Toei Animation could learn a thing or two from them.

I'm hoping that the reason Toyo-tarou is about to be ahead of the animated series soon is because he will be doing a story arc that the animated series will not for another six months. That might mean we'll see two cours of Toei original episodes that are meant to buy time for production of the next Toriyama arc. Somehow. Hopefully.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I'm hoping for that too. If not 6 months, 2 or 3 months would be very helpful. Also they need to get at least some good freelance staff. But, with Hatano Kouhei as the lead I highly doubt we'll get that.

[ArchedThunder]

I'm hoping that the reason Toyo-tarou is about to be ahead of the animated series soon is because he will be doing a story arc that the animated series will not for another six months. That might mean we'll see two cours of Toei original episodes that are meant to buy time for production of the next Toriyama arc. Somehow. Hopefully.

I think it's more likely we'll get one cour of Toei only stuff to allow extra production time on the next Toriyama arc for the anime, but they won't be using the manga as a base (I'm not sure if you were implying this or not).
I just hope they're able to assign some new animators (that will then become regulars) to work on those episodes while Super's regular staff mainly focuses on the filler arc and then comes in and finishes up those episodes when they finish their work on the filler. Around 10-12 episodes for the presumed Hit filler arc and then another 2 or so in between episodes before the next Toriyama arc sounds about right.

Either way I think the only reason Toyotaro is going ahead of the anime is because Toei are going to be doing a hefty amount of filler to extend the amount of production time on the next arc. Six months to work on the next Toriyama arc behind the scenes would be incredible though, it would also allow them to treat that next arc as a "relaunch" of the series and even schedule animators from Tiger Mask to work on the arc as if it was a new show. But 3 extra months would/will still be a huge gain for the production.

[Gashif Aldi]

I'm hoping that the reason Toyo-tarou is about to be ahead of the animated series soon is because he will be doing a story arc that the animated series will not for another six months. That might mean we'll see two cours of Toei original episodes that are meant to buy time for production of the next Toriyama arc. Somehow. Hopefully.

I think it's more likely we'll get one cour of Toei only stuff to allow extra production time on the next Toriyama arc for the anime, but they won't be using the manga as a base (I'm not sure if you were implying this or not).
I just hope they're able to assign some new animators (that will then become regulars) to work on those episodes while Super's regular staff mainly focuses on the filler arc and then comes in and finishes up those episodes when they finish their work on the filler. Around 10-12 episodes for the presumed Hit filler arc and then another 2 or so in between episodes before the next Toriyama arc sounds about right.

Either way I think the only reason Toyotaro is going ahead of the anime is because Toei are going to be doing a hefty amount of filler to extend the amount of production time on the next arc. Six months to work on the next Toriyama arc behind the scenes would be incredible though, it would also allow them to treat that next arc as a "relaunch" of the series and even schedule animators from Tiger Mask to work on the arc as if it was a new show. But 3 extra months would/will still be a huge gain for the production.

After reading this, I have thought that TOEI and Toyotaro is planning something together, like a secret planning. I mean if they actually re-animate manga pages like they did in the 90s, would that actually help TOEI do the storyboards? So every staff that's working aren't given so much stress and responsibility, they just need to follow the manga so the Series Directors animators could do their job without a problem.
Because the actual problem in the series is the writting, but I feel like the manga did it better.

Umm... It's hard to explain, because I still can't speak english properly.

[dhaval_dongre]

I'm hoping that the reason Toyo-tarou is about to be ahead of the animated series soon is because he will be doing a story arc that the animated series will not for another six months. That might mean we'll see two cours of Toei original episodes that are meant to buy time for production of the next Toriyama arc. Somehow. Hopefully.

Mighy be the case. The Hit arc is Toei only going by Toyotaro's interview. There is also the possibility that this month's Manga chapter might have double the pages and conclude the arc(which will be ridiculous because we haven't even seen Black go Rosé yet in the manga, so I hope that's not the case). Or the FT arc might go on till Jan or even Feb in the manga and the anime will continue to have Toei only content.

There's also the possibility that the future arcs are going to come from the Dragon Ball room. It was setup in June, so Toriyama's next arc might originate from there or the arc after that.

So the one question that I have is, if the future arcs originate from the Dragon Ball Room which has been setup by Shuiesha, would they be fine with Toei adapting them first ? Wouldn't they want to publish those arcs in V Jump first ? We all know that Bandai, Toei and Shueisha are all in this together. Shueisha's editor at the time even had the director of Dragon Ball replaced (Rejected to be more precise ), when Z was to be animated, so we all know how influential Shueisha is with regard to the series.

[ArchedThunder]

After reading this, I have thought that TOEI and Toyotaro is planning something together, like a secret planning. I mean if they actually re-animate manga pages like they did in the 90s, would that actually help TOEI do the storyboards? So every staff that's working aren't given so much stress and responsibility, they just need to follow the manga so the Series Directors animators could do their job without a problem.
Because the actual problem in the series is the writting, but I feel like the manga did it better.

Umm... It's hard to explain, because I still can't speak english properly.

Unless the manga goes weekly in 2017 the anime won't be based off of the manga. They've hopefully already begun writing the actual episodes of the next Toriyama arc, if not finished a few scripts and even done some storyboarding. By the time the first chapter of the next arc comes out it will probably already be too late for the anime to base anything off of the manga.

I'm hoping that the reason Toyo-tarou is about to be ahead of the animated series soon is because he will be doing a story arc that the animated series will not for another six months. That might mean we'll see two cours of Toei original episodes that are meant to buy time for production of the next Toriyama arc. Somehow. Hopefully.

Mighy be the case. The Hit arc is Toei only going by Toyotaro's interview. There is also the possibility that this month's Manga chapter might have double the pages and conclude the arc(which will be ridiculous because we haven't even seen Black go Rosé yet in the manga, so I hope that's not the case). Or the FT arc might go on till Jan or even Feb in the manga and the anime will continue to have Toei only content.

There's also the possibility that the future arcs are going to come from the Dragon Ball room. It was setup in June, so Toriyama's next arc might originate from there or the arc after that.

So the one question that I have is, if the future arcs originate from the Dragon Ball Room which has been setup by Shuiesha, would they be fine with Toei adapting them first ? Wouldn't they want to publish those arcs in V Jump first ? We all know that Bandai, Toei and Shueisha are all in this together. Shueisha's editor at the time even had the director of Dragon Ball replaced (Rejected to be more precise ), when Z was to be animated, so we all know how influential Shueisha is with regard to the series.

If Shueisha cared about having the arcs in manga form first they'd have the manga go weekly.
I do think the plan is probably to have the manga go weekly eventually(or a sequel manga to Super) but I don't think that's going to happen for a little while longer.

[dhaval_dongre]

Unless the manga goes weekly in 2017 the anime won't be based off of the manga. They've hopefully already begun writing the actual episodes of the next Toriyama arc, if not finished a few scripts and even done some storyboarding. By the time the first chapter of the next arc comes out it will probably already be too late for the anime to base anything off of the manga.

Toyotaro did say that he had to refer Toei for info regarding the FT arc, but I think he also said something along the lines like, 'it is going to be the other way around in the future'. We do know the fact that Toei referenced his Manga portion panel to panel for the early part of the U6 arc.

[dhaval_dongre]

If Shueisha cared about having the arcs in manga form first they'd have the manga go weekly.
I do think the plan is probably to have the manga go weekly eventually(or a sequel manga to Super) but I don't think that's going to happen for a little while longer.

I think that's why the Dragon Ball Room was setup, so that they can speed things up and only having Toyotaro dependent on Toriyama's manuscript has been limiting them. We also know that Toriyama also corrects Toyotaro's manga panels, so having that additional set of artists and writers might finally help them speed up things and go on a weekly schedule. But as you said, the timing of all this is hard to predict.

[ArchedThunder]

Unless the manga goes weekly in 2017 the anime won't be based off of the manga. They've hopefully already begun writing the actual episodes of the next Toriyama arc, if not finished a few scripts and even done some storyboarding. By the time the first chapter of the next arc comes out it will probably already be too late for the anime to base anything off of the manga.

Toyotaro did say that he had to refer Toei for info regarding the FT arc, but I think he also said something along the lines like, 'it is going to be the other way around in the future'. We do know the fact that Toei referenced his Manga portion panel to panel for the early part of the U6 arc.

The thing is that things were extra fucked up at that time, so basing some stuff on the manga at that time actually kinda worked and helped a bit. The anime has been going without any manga to base its stuff on since around the time Goku went Super Saiyan against Frost and I don't see them going back to basing a few shots on the manga this long after, especially since it would only be temporary if the manga was still monthly. There really isn't any reason to do a lengthy filler arc for Super right now unless Toei themselves are working on the next arc behind the scenes as well or the manga is going weekly. I don't doubt Toyotaro when he says he will be ahead of the anime soon, but him saying that he'll be giving the anime staff stuff to work with doesn't really make much sense unless he's either going weekly and Toei is just going to buy time to let chapters of the manga pile up, or he simply means he'll be (and presumably already has been) informing them on how he's going to be doing things or he was simply unaware of what Toei's plans were beyond doing a filler arc before Toriyama's next arc.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm hoping that the reason Toyo-tarou is about to be ahead of the animated series soon is because he will be doing a story arc that the animated series will not for another six months. That might mean we'll see two cours of Toei original episodes that are meant to buy time for production of the next Toriyama arc. Somehow. Hopefully.

I think it's more likely we'll get one cour of Toei only stuff to allow extra production time on the next Toriyama arc for the anime, but they won't be using the manga as a base (I'm not sure if you were implying this or not).
I just hope they're able to assign some new animators (that will then become regulars) to work on those episodes while Super's regular staff mainly focuses on the filler arc and then comes in and finishes up those episodes when they finish their work on the filler. Around 10-12 episodes for the presumed Hit filler arc and then another 2 or so in between episodes before the next Toriyama arc sounds about right.

Either way I think the only reason Toyotaro is going ahead of the anime is because Toei are going to be doing a hefty amount of filler to extend the amount of production time on the next arc. Six months to work on the next Toriyama arc behind the scenes would be incredible though, it would also allow them to treat that next arc as a "relaunch" of the series and even schedule animators from Tiger Mask to work on the arc as if it was a new show. But 3 extra months would/will still be a huge gain for the production.

12 episodes (3 months) of filler is asking a lot at this stage. Unless Toei are willing to go balls deeps into exploring Universe 6, I don't see how they could possibly drum up enough filler material to go into double digits in regards to the episode count of it. I mean, the longest filler arc a Dragon Ball series has ever done has been 10 episodes, with that arc being the Garlic Jr arc. However, with a proper rotation of good screenwriters and episode directions, they could milk all of the potential unexplored material of Universe 6 into many episodes. Like how did Frost become Emperor of his Universe? Or perhaps some lore building with what race Botamo belongs to. Or how what function Magetta and metalman have. Or a summation of how Hit became such a renowned assassin. Or a more in depth look at how the Saiyan's operate in Universe 6 and how their personalities differentiate with the Saiyans in Universe 7. It really writes itself.

[ArchedThunder]

12 episodes (3 months) of filler is asking a lot at this stage. Unless Toei are willing to go balls deeps into exploring Universe 6, I don't see how they could possibly drum up enough filler material to go into double digits in regards to the episode count of it. I mean, the longest filler arc a Dragon Ball series has ever done has been 10 episodes, with that arc being the Garlic Jr arc. However, with a proper rotation of good screenwriters and episode directions, they could milk all of the potential unexplored material of Universe 6 into many episodes. Like how did Frost become Emperor of his Universe? Or perhaps some lore building with what race Botamo belongs to. Or how what function Magetta and metalman have. Or a summation of how Hit became such a renowned assassin. Or a more in depth look at how the Saiyan's operate in Universe 6 and how their personalities differentiate with the Saiyans in Universe 7. I really writes itself.

Filler arcs in DB and Z being shorter was more because they were only trying to fill that amount of time. They could very easily do a filler arc that lasts around 12 episodes.

[Lord Beerus]

12 episodes (3 months) of filler is asking a lot at this stage. Unless Toei are willing to go balls deeps into exploring Universe 6, I don't see how they could possibly drum up enough filler material to go into double digits in regards to the episode count of it. I mean, the longest filler arc a Dragon Ball series has ever done has been 10 episodes, with that arc being the Garlic Jr arc. However, with a proper rotation of good screenwriters and episode directions, they could milk all of the potential unexplored material of Universe 6 into many episodes. Like how did Frost become Emperor of his Universe? Or perhaps some lore building with what race Botamo belongs to. Or how what function Magetta and metalman have. Or a summation of how Hit became such a renowned assassin. Or a more in depth look at how the Saiyan's operate in Universe 6 and how their personalities differentiate with the Saiyans in Universe 7. I really writes itself.

Filler arcs in DB and Z being shorter was more because they were only trying to fill that amount of time. They could very easily do a filler arc that lasts around 12 episodes.

I'm not saying they can't, I just worried about what kind of content will consist in a potential arc. They could easily adapt the Jaco manga or perhaps dive into Universe 6 more deeply, but I feel the filler episodes will be more like short stories that last 1-2 episodes each. I want the filler episodes to be at least decent and feel worthwhile, is what I'm really asking.

[ParkerAL]

How long do One Piece's recent filler arcs tend to be?

I know that's not the best show to compare Dragon Ball Super to, but it's certainly a better equivalent than a show from the 1990s.