Gohan might not have seen Freeza at 100%, but he almost definitely felt his and Goku's power while fighting, as he and the others weren't whisked off to Earth till long after Freeza had unleashed his full power.
Ahhh, okay. Guess I was mis-remembering the order those things happened in a bit then -- for some reason I thought Freeza didn't go 100% until after everyone except Goku was off the planet.
I guess in that case, King Cold doesn't have to be weaker than 50% Freeza for the combination of "two huge powers" (implying both around the same level?) and Gohan's "Freeza can get much stronger than this" statement to work together. He just has to be a good bit weaker than 100% Freeza was on Namek -- maybe he's something like 75-80% the strength of organic final-form Freeza, which puts him maybe somewhere around two-thirds the strength of the upgraded Mecha-Freeza's full power (but about even with the level he was suppressed to when landing on Earth -- maybe Freeza was counting on Goku's Super Saiyan form being a fluke rather than something he could bring out at will, so he'd only need enough power to overwhelm Kaio-ken x20 Goku and two people at "75-80% Freeza" level would be more than enough for that. Freeza was so confident in his being superior, I can definitely imagine him thinking Goku's transformation was a one-time deal because nobody could possibly get permanently stronger than him!)
Pantalones wrote:Ahhh, okay. Guess I was mis-remembering the order those things happened in a bit then -- for some reason I thought Freeza didn't go 100% until after everyone except Goku was off the planet.
I guess in that case, King Cold doesn't have to be weaker than 50% Freeza for the combination of "two huge powers" (implying both around the same level?) and Gohan's "Freeza can get much stronger than this" statement to work together. He just has to be a good bit weaker than 100% Freeza was on Namek -- maybe he's something like 75-80% the strength of organic final-form Freeza, which puts him maybe somewhere around two-thirds the strength of the upgraded Mecha-Freeza's full power (but about even with the level he was suppressed to when landing on Earth -- maybe Freeza was counting on Goku's Super Saiyan form being a fluke rather than something he could bring out at will, so he'd only need enough power to overwhelm Kaio-ken x20 Goku and two people at "75-80% Freeza" level would be more than enough for that. Freeza was so confident in his being superior, I can definitely imagine him thinking Goku's transformation was a one-time deal because nobody could possibly get permanently stronger than him!)
Considering how he and Cold constantly refer to Goku as "The Super Saiyan" and how Freeza saw Goku drop out of the form once his stamina started to fail and Goku no longer saw him as a worthwhile opponent and then pop right back into it right after he threw the Kien-structo Disk, it wouldn't make much sense for them to assume that Goku couldn't transform at will.
Given that Freeza only says that he might be able to take Goku out on his own and that he seems to have a lot riding on having his dad back him up, I have Mecha Freeza's full power dead even with Namek-era Super Saiyan Goku, with a battle power of 150 million. While it's worth noting that Freeza can't actually sense Ki and might be overestimating himself, I find it simpler to just take his word for it.
Wow, I'm forgetting so many details from the later Freeza stuff. Completely forgot that Goku powered out of Super Saiyan and then transformed again before leaving Namek. I really should get around to going back and watching those episodes again at some point...
But yeah, Mecha-Freeza approaching or possibly equaling the power Super Saiyan Goku had on Namek seems likely to me. Maybe he's still a bit off if even somebody as arrogant and self-overestimating as him thinks that he might still need his dad's help to pull it off for sure, though -- like maybe his 100% only rose to something like 135-145 million rather than the full 150?
Pantalones wrote:Wow, I'm forgetting so many details from the later Freeza stuff. Completely forgot that Goku powered out of Super Saiyan and then transformed again before leaving Namek. I really should get around to going back and watching those episodes again at some point...
But yeah, Mecha-Freeza approaching or possibly equaling the power Super Saiyan Goku had on Namek seems likely to me. Maybe he's still a bit off if even somebody as arrogant and self-overestimating as him thinks that he might still need his dad's help to pull it off for sure, though -- like maybe his 100% only rose to something like 135-145 million rather than the full 150?
It's definitely plausible that Freeza is not quite up there with Namek-era Super Saiyan Goku, and only assumes that he is due to a combination of his inability to sense Ki and arrogance, but I still prefer to take his word for it and just stick him on par with Goku. It also fits thematically that the previous big bad has powered up to rival our hero, only to be cut down effortlessly to display how terrifying the upcoming threat is going to be. But those are just my two cents.
I don't know if this belongs in this thread but I'm really interested in knowing how strong the Dr. Slump characters are. I hope someone familiar with the series would be kind enough to let me know the characters' feats, etc.
All I know so far is that Arale is the strongest, with Obotchaman having the same strength as her... and that the Gatchan are pretty strong too.
I was thinking of making a top 10 Dr. Slump characters video; I know it's a gag manga but there has to be some kind of basic power structure, right?
On a side note, is Dr. Slump's God actually Kame-sennin?
DBZ Macky wrote:I don't know if this belongs in this thread but I'm really interested in knowing how strong the Dr. Slump characters are. I hope someone familiar with the series would be kind enough to let me know the characters' feats, etc.
All I know so far is that Arale is the strongest, with Obotchaman having the same strength as her... and that the Gatchan are pretty strong too.
I was thinking of making a top 10 Dr. Slump characters video; I know it's a gag manga but there has to be some kind of basic power structure, right?
On a side note, is Dr. Slump's God actually Kame-sennin?
Near the end of the manga, the Teapot Genie actually manages to defeat Arale, but the Chinese boy, Tsun Tsukutsun, who is normally weaker than Arale, gets angry and manages to defeat the Genie.
And by the way, Tsukutsun transforms into a tiger when a girl touches him, but not Arale cuz she's a robot.
"The life is the hardest video games of ever. Because you have only one life and the powers are kinda lame. And sometimes a stage takes years"
"The life is a game, the objective of the game is trying to find the objective of the game, and then, finish the game"
--by Ranely Jr
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
This can sound crazy, but i think power levels in DBS are not so high than people think. Buuhan could destroy the universe just shouting, or at least some of galaxies. And SSJ Vegetto was way stronger than him. SSJ3 Vegetto even stronger. SSJG Goku is a universe buster, but Vegetto maybe was a universe buster too, or at least multi galaxies buster.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:This can sound crazy, but i think power levels in DBS are not so high than people think. Buuhan could destroy the universe just shouting, or at least some of galaxies. And SSJ Vegetto was way stronger than him. SSJ3 Vegetto even stronger. SSJG Goku is a universe buster, but Vegetto maybe was a universe buster too, or at least multi galaxies buster.
Or all the "Universe Destroying" stuff is Toei hyperbole. Aside from Evil Boo screaming his way out of the Room of Spirit and Time, there were no Universe Destroying nonsense from them.
I decided to embrace a new base multiplier for DB Super, and so I worked with a previous list of mine, which included the Boo saga. The base for SSJ is 10, and its power increases 10 times with SSJ2, and then stops at 1'000 for SSJ3. The characters were as follows then:
[spoiler]Super Vegetto - 2'000
Gohan Boo - 1'280
Gotenks Boo - 1'024
Ultimate Gohan/Buff Boo - 800
SSJ3 Gotenks/Super Boo - 640
SSJ3 Goku/Kid Boo - 400
South Kai - 200
Fat Boo - 160
Majin Vegeta - 100
Good Boo - 80
Piccolo - 25
Dai Kai - 20[/spoiler]
Notice that, when you multiply kid Boo's power by South Kaioshin, and then divide it by a scale (100, in this case), you arrive at buff Boo, only for his power to be toned down into fat Boo's by multiplying Dai Kaioshin. I considered good Boo to be Dai Kaioshin's influence, and Piccolo to suppress super Boo all the same - he's below the scale - hence why super Gotenks Boo isn't bloated with multiplication, nor with Gohan's absorption. The numbers were optimized for this, but a new base may produce better results, so let's try the number 10.
[spoiler]Super Vegetto - 10'000
Gohan Boo - 6'250
Gotenks Boo - 3'125
Ultimate Gohan/Buff Boo - 2'500
SSJ3 Gotenks/Super Boo - 1'250
SSJ3 Goku/Kid Boo - 1'000
South Kai - 250
Fat Boo - 125
Majin Vegeta - 100
Good Boo - 50
Piccolo - 20
Dai Kai - 5[/spoiler]
Good enough, except for Piccolo being higher than a regular SSJ, which may cause some disagreement. These numbers were made for simple operations, with no conditions, except Majin Boo not needing to use everyone's power, or else the kids would suppress him further, because they're below the scale.
Bullza wrote:So where do you lot place King Cold? The Daizenshuu says he's slightly behind Frieza. The Earthlings described two huge powers and not that one was really bigger than the other or anything.
So slightly less than 100% Frieza on Namek? Like 100 million or so?
I have him at 200,000,000. For comparison, I have 100% Freeza at 240,000,000, Namek SS Goku at 250,000,000, and Mecha Freeza at 270,000,000.
Dr. Gero wrote:Hi, people!! I'm new here and I'd like to share with you my Dragon Ball's battle power that was saved on my tablet for a while
Pilaf Saga
Kuririn - 7
Yamcha - 9
Son Goku - 10
21st Tenkai'chi Budôkai
Yamcha - 15
Giran - 17.5
Kuririn - 20
Namu - 27
Son Goku - 30
Kame-Sen'nin - 30
Red Ribbon Army
Colonel Silver - 12
Ninja Murasaki - 19
Sergeant Metallic - 26
Pirate Robot - 26
General Blue - 27
Son Goku - 33
Tao Pai Pai - 68
Son Goku (post Karin training) - 80
Karin - 190
Uranai Baba Tournament
Dracula Man - 12
Invisible Man - 13.5
Yamcha - 15
Kuririn - 20
Mummy-kun - 33
Akkuman (Devil Man) - 50
Son Gohan - 75
Son Goku - 80
22nd Tenkai'chi Budôkai
King Chappa - 83
Chaozu - 94
Yamcha - 97
Kuririn - 100
Tsuru-Sen'nin - 120
Kame-Sen'nin - 139
Tenshinhan - 180
Son Goku - 180
King Piccolo
Cymbal - 100
Tambourine - 145
Yajirobe - 160
Tenshinhan - 180
Son Goku - 180
Karin - 190
Drum - 210
King Piccolo (old) - 220
King Piccolo (young) - 260
Son Goku (post Karin's Water) - 260
Mr. Popo - 300
Kami-Sama - 330
23rd Tenkai'chi Budôkai
King Chappa - 100
Chi Chi - 130
Chaozu - 145
Yajirobe - 160
Yamcha - 170
Kuririn - 197
Tenshinhan - 240
Kami-Sama - 330
King Piccolo Junior - 392
Son Goku (with weights) - 300
~without weights - 400
~Super Kamehameha - 910
Nice list dude! It's very similar to mine. But why didn't you put other characters like Ox-King, Launch, Ranfam or Oozaru Goku? And i think pre Roshi Goku > RR Soldiers. They are strong, but on the humans limit. I agree with Tao at sub-100, i can't see him defeating Oozaru Goku. I agree with King Chapa > Post Karin Goku. Roshi tought Goku couldn't defeat him. And to finish, Tien in the 23º Budokai is stronger than young King Piccolo. He was really confident in beating weighted Goku, who was stronger than the Goku when fought Piccolo.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
Dr. Gero wrote:Hi, people!! I'm new here and I'd like to share with you my Dragon Ball's battle power that was saved on my tablet for a while
Pilaf Saga
Kuririn - 7
Yamcha - 9
Son Goku - 10
21st Tenkai'chi Budôkai
Yamcha - 15
Giran - 17.5
Kuririn - 20
Namu - 27
Son Goku - 30
Kame-Sen'nin - 30
Red Ribbon Army
Colonel Silver - 12
Ninja Murasaki - 19
Sergeant Metallic - 26
Pirate Robot - 26
General Blue - 27
Son Goku - 33
Tao Pai Pai - 68
Son Goku (post Karin training) - 80
Karin - 190
Uranai Baba Tournament
Dracula Man - 12
Invisible Man - 13.5
Yamcha - 15
Kuririn - 20
Mummy-kun - 33
Akkuman (Devil Man) - 50
Son Gohan - 75
Son Goku - 80
22nd Tenkai'chi Budôkai
King Chappa - 83
Chaozu - 94
Yamcha - 97
Kuririn - 100
Tsuru-Sen'nin - 120
Kame-Sen'nin - 139
Tenshinhan - 180
Son Goku - 180
King Piccolo
Cymbal - 100
Tambourine - 145
Yajirobe - 160
Tenshinhan - 180
Son Goku - 180
Karin - 190
Drum - 210
King Piccolo (old) - 220
King Piccolo (young) - 260
Son Goku (post Karin's Water) - 260
Mr. Popo - 300
Kami-Sama - 330
23rd Tenkai'chi Budôkai
King Chappa - 100
Chi Chi - 130
Chaozu - 145
Yajirobe - 160
Yamcha - 170
Kuririn - 197
Tenshinhan - 240
Kami-Sama - 330
King Piccolo Junior - 392
Son Goku (with weights) - 300
~without weights - 400
~Super Kamehameha - 910
Nice list dude! It's very similar to mine. But why didn't you put other characters like Ox-King, Launch, Ranfam or Oozaru Goku? And i think pre Roshi Goku > RR Soldiers. They are strong, but on the humans limit. I agree with Tao at sub-100, i can't see him defeating Oozaru Goku. I agree with King Chapa > Post Karin Goku. Roshi tought Goku couldn't defeat him. And to finish, Tien in the 23º Budokai is stronger than young King Piccolo. He was really confident in beating weighted Goku, who was stronger than the Goku when fought Piccolo.
Thank you!
I didn't put all these characters because I didn't feel too comfortable on putting a level for them due to lack of information or so. I could add Gyumao (would have him at 21st Tournament Giran's level) and Oozaru Goku (since it's just 10x his power).
Do you think I should have Roshi>Goku at the 21st Tournament?
Well you see, King Piccolo (youth restoured) is given as 260 in the Daizenshuu and unless Ten got weaker during those five years, he should be weaker than Young Piccolo. Looking at the numbers given at the arrival of Raditz, Tenshinhan is also placed quite a bit below weighted Goku (250vs334), so I think the same should be applied to the 23rd Tournament.
Dr. Gero wrote:Hi, people!! I'm new here and I'd like to share with you my Dragon Ball's battle power that was saved on my tablet for a while
Pilaf Saga
Kuririn - 7
Yamcha - 9
Son Goku - 10
21st Tenkai'chi Budôkai
Yamcha - 15
Giran - 17.5
Kuririn - 20
Namu - 27
Son Goku - 30
Kame-Sen'nin - 30
Red Ribbon Army
Colonel Silver - 12
Ninja Murasaki - 19
Sergeant Metallic - 26
Pirate Robot - 26
General Blue - 27
Son Goku - 33
Tao Pai Pai - 68
Son Goku (post Karin training) - 80
Karin - 190
Uranai Baba Tournament
Dracula Man - 12
Invisible Man - 13.5
Yamcha - 15
Kuririn - 20
Mummy-kun - 33
Akkuman (Devil Man) - 50
Son Gohan - 75
Son Goku - 80
22nd Tenkai'chi Budôkai
King Chappa - 83
Chaozu - 94
Yamcha - 97
Kuririn - 100
Tsuru-Sen'nin - 120
Kame-Sen'nin - 139
Tenshinhan - 180
Son Goku - 180
King Piccolo
Cymbal - 100
Tambourine - 145
Yajirobe - 160
Tenshinhan - 180
Son Goku - 180
Karin - 190
Drum - 210
King Piccolo (old) - 220
King Piccolo (young) - 260
Son Goku (post Karin's Water) - 260
Mr. Popo - 300
Kami-Sama - 330
23rd Tenkai'chi Budôkai
King Chappa - 100
Chi Chi - 130
Chaozu - 145
Yajirobe - 160
Yamcha - 170
Kuririn - 197
Tenshinhan - 240
Kami-Sama - 330
King Piccolo Junior - 392
Son Goku (with weights) - 300
~without weights - 400
~Super Kamehameha - 910
Nice list dude! It's very similar to mine. But why didn't you put other characters like Ox-King, Launch, Ranfam or Oozaru Goku? And i think pre Roshi Goku > RR Soldiers. They are strong, but on the humans limit. I agree with Tao at sub-100, i can't see him defeating Oozaru Goku. I agree with King Chapa > Post Karin Goku. Roshi tought Goku couldn't defeat him. And to finish, Tien in the 23º Budokai is stronger than young King Piccolo. He was really confident in beating weighted Goku, who was stronger than the Goku when fought Piccolo.
Thank you!
I didn't put all these characters because I didn't feel too comfortable on putting a level for them due to lack of information or so. I could add Gyumao (would have him at 21st Tournament Giran's level) and Oozaru Goku (since it's just 10x his power).
Do you think I should have Roshi>Goku at the 21st Tournament?
Well you see, King Piccolo (youth restoured) is given as 260 in the Daizenshuu and unless Ten got weaker during those five years, he should be weaker than Young Piccolo. Looking at the numbers given at the arrival of Raditz, Tenshinhan is also placed quite a bit below weighted Goku (250vs334), so I think the same should be applied to the 23rd Tournament.
I have Gyumao at RR Saga Goku, but is just a guess. All we know is he is > BoDB Goku.
Nope, they were really equal. If not, Goku was stronger.
Tien was really confident about beating Goku, and give him a Good fight. I really don't know how Tien < King Piccolo <<< Weighted Goku in BoZ, maybe Tien was suppressed? Or maybe the Daizenshuu was inconscient about King Piccolo's power.
And btw, Will you release a DBZ or DBS list?
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
Nice list dude! It's very similar to mine. But why didn't you put other characters like Ox-King, Launch, Ranfam or Oozaru Goku? And i think pre Roshi Goku > RR Soldiers. They are strong, but on the humans limit. I agree with Tao at sub-100, i can't see him defeating Oozaru Goku. I agree with King Chapa > Post Karin Goku. Roshi tought Goku couldn't defeat him. And to finish, Tien in the 23º Budokai is stronger than young King Piccolo. He was really confident in beating weighted Goku, who was stronger than the Goku when fought Piccolo.
Thank you!
I didn't put all these characters because I didn't feel too comfortable on putting a level for them due to lack of information or so. I could add Gyumao (would have him at 21st Tournament Giran's level) and Oozaru Goku (since it's just 10x his power).
Do you think I should have Roshi>Goku at the 21st Tournament?
Well you see, King Piccolo (youth restoured) is given as 260 in the Daizenshuu and unless Ten got weaker during those five years, he should be weaker than Young Piccolo. Looking at the numbers given at the arrival of Raditz, Tenshinhan is also placed quite a bit below weighted Goku (250vs334), so I think the same should be applied to the 23rd Tournament.
I have Gyumao at RR Saga Goku, but is just a guess. All we know is he is > BoDB Goku.
Nope, they were really equal. If not, Goku was stronger.
Tien was really confident about beating Goku, and give him a Good fight. I really don't know how Tien < King Piccolo <<< Weighted Goku in BoZ, maybe Tien was suppressed? Or maybe the Daizenshuu was inconscient about King Piccolo's power.
And btw, Will you release a DBZ or DBS list?
At RR Goku's level? Isn't that above Mutenroshi from the 21st Tournament? I think Mutenroshi was way stronger than Gyumao, even at the 21st Tournament.
I think Tenshinhan was that confident due to his speed. Strength-wise, I feel he was portrayed quite a bit below Goku with weights. Ten was struggling through their fight while Goku seemed pretty nonchalant.
I will do a DBZ's battle power for sure. Not sure about DBS though, maybe when I catch up, though I heard it was pretty inconsistent.
I didn't put all these characters because I didn't feel too comfortable on putting a level for them due to lack of information or so. I could add Gyumao (would have him at 21st Tournament Giran's level) and Oozaru Goku (since it's just 10x his power).
Do you think I should have Roshi>Goku at the 21st Tournament?
Well you see, King Piccolo (youth restoured) is given as 260 in the Daizenshuu and unless Ten got weaker during those five years, he should be weaker than Young Piccolo. Looking at the numbers given at the arrival of Raditz, Tenshinhan is also placed quite a bit below weighted Goku (250vs334), so I think the same should be applied to the 23rd Tournament.
I have Gyumao at RR Saga Goku, but is just a guess. All we know is he is > BoDB Goku.
Nope, they were really equal. If not, Goku was stronger.
Tien was really confident about beating Goku, and give him a Good fight. I really don't know how Tien < King Piccolo <<< Weighted Goku in BoZ, maybe Tien was suppressed? Or maybe the Daizenshuu was inconscient about King Piccolo's power.
And btw, Will you release a DBZ or DBS list?
At RR Goku's level? Isn't that above Mutenroshi from the 21st Tournament? I think Mutenroshi was way stronger than Gyumao, even at the 21st Tournament.
I think Tenshinhan was that confident due to his speed. Strength-wise, I feel he was portrayed quite a bit below Goku with weights. Ten was struggling through their fight while Goku seemed pretty nonchalant.
I will do a DBZ's battle power for sure. Not sure about DBS though, maybe when I catch up, though I heard it was pretty inconsistent.
Thinking better, i exaggerated a bit. Gyumao should be at 21º Budokai Krillin. And Roshi was suppressed when fighting Goku.
I just read the fight between Goku and Tien to refresh my memory. Goku and Tien fight equal, but Tien looks more tired than Goku. Then, Tien says Goku's speed didn't changed. So Weighted Goku = Young King Piccolo in terms of speed. Goku had more brute strenght, but Tien was faster, i say they were equal. 5 years after, i'm sure Tien outclassed King Piccolo.
I would like to see a DBZ and a DBS list, but i think a DBS list is impossible. SSJG Goku is a universe buster, he is billions of times stronger than Vegetto, who is already in the trillions.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!
