Hypothetical: Review DBM in a World Without the Bardock TV Special

[Jinzoningen MULE]

There's been a small resurgence in Dragon Ball Minus talk lately, talk over it's good points, as well as (about) the criticisms. However, nearly every comment regarding it seems to compare it to the old Bardock Special, and justifiably so, since they're in direct competition. So, I want to here what people think about DBM without taking into account the old special at all. Everything else is the same, mind you. Bardock was still in those couple of panels in the original manga, he's still in the video game universe, only the TV Special that is in direct competition with DBM is being omitted. Also, since it's such a short chapter, I ask that you all re-read it before posting, I hope that's not too much to ask.

I don't often make threads, but I'm genuinely curious as to what everyone's opinions will be. I look forward to seeing your opinions, thanks.

[sintzu]

Probably more or less the same cause there's not much to it but instead of saying Toriyama wasted an opportunity to fully develop Goku's mother we'll be saying his parents.

What probably won't change is fans not liking how it made Goku's origin closer to Superman's.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Probably more or less the same cause there's not much to it but instead of saying Toriyama wasted an opportunity to fully develop Goku's mother we'll be saying his parents.

What probably won't change is fans not liking how it made Goku's origin closer to Superman's.

I'm not expecting it to pass with flying colors, I just want to see people's objective analysis on it. It tends to cloud things up when we already have a superior version to what Toriyama wrote. I want people to analyze it in an semi-isolated state. If you don't get what I'm going for, I'm going to write mine up in a little while.

[Soppa Saia People]

Both Gine and Bardock are a wastes of characters, if Toriyama wanted to expand on the universe of DB, he could have done it much better. It's a short story, which I would be fine with, but the way it's presented makes it seem like a bunch of bullet points, rather then a story. Another problem is that this kinda ruins Goku. Not only does it make him much more like Supes, it makes him and his family to be special snow flakes, rather then a random Saiyan family, which I think would have worked much better in enforcing the Saiyan arc lesson.
There, I reviewed it like the Bardock special never existed.

[Kunzait_83]

First of all, Bardock wouldn't have been in that one panel of the manga if not for the TV special. Its been noted in past interviews that Toriyama threw that panel in after the special as a shout out to it. By that same token, he also wouldn't be in any of the video games, since he likely wouldn't exist at all as a character. No Bardock TV special, no Bardock period.

Anyways, DB Minus would still be kinda crappy even without the TV special to compare it against, since its essentially a total nothing of a story. Even as a short chapter unto itself, its not really so much a "story" as it is a few quick sequences of events that lead to Goku getting sent to earth. There's no arc and no dramatic weight to any of it: Bardock has a bad feeling that Freeza's gonna screw over the Saiya-jin, has some brief "I wuv wu" moments with Gine and his baby, there's a few quick action beats, and Goku's sent off into space. That's... largely it really.

Without the TV special, it would obviously be far less harmful to the story since its not completely gutting one of the single best and richly told stories in the whole series; but even without the TV special it wouldn't really be adding anything at all except names and faces to Goku's parents, and not a whole lot much else besides. So essentially without the TV special to compare it against, it would simply be pointless and shallow instead of a damaging downgrade to a vital piece of series narrative.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

First of all, Bardock wouldn't have been in that one panel of the manga if not for the TV special.

Note the word "hypothetical" in the title.

[VegettoEX]

Note the word "hypothetical" in the title.

Your response doesn't make any sense. Kunzait perfectly outlined this hypothetical world by unraveling it from its start and heading forward again.

[Gaffer Tape]

Now clearly I'm not being the least bit scientific, so this is just my own personal opinion, but, around Kanzenshuu at least, I don't see this predilection towards only criticizing DBM in comparison to the Bardock Special. Perhaps you're seeing something I'm not, and fair enough, but, honestly, the reactions this thread has gotten already seem pretty par for the course in any thread discussing DBM including the one that's active right now. But, hey! I never get tired of bashing Dragon Ball Minus, so I am totally game!

Honestly, in a world where DBM existed without the special (and by extension any other Bardock media), Bardock would come across just like Gine: a shallow character that exists only as an attempt at fanservice. Honestly, he should already, but the special actually gives Bardock an advantage because it's easy for a reader to inadvertently carry over certain traits in his/her mind, despite the fact that this is an entirely different Bardock. But strip away all those preconceptions, and what is really there? A 9-to-5 contract killer who returns to his Flintstones house to get all Jor-El on his son. Well, I guess that's still a biiit more than Gine, but it's not much.

Other than that, it's just my typical complaints about DBM, which would stand even without the special: It's a not a story. It's a rushed series of events that have no dramatic weight. It pushes this syrupy-sweet special narrative about Goku that his parents were somehow "different" than other Saiyans. It includes fanservice up the wazoo with putting in Goku's parents and even a reference to Super Saiyan God. It turns Goku's backstory into a near copy-paste of Superman's when before it only vaguely resembled it. It wipes away what made Goku and Vegeta's conflict interesting to me. It takes away the irony of a child sent here to destroy the world ultimately becoming its savior. It takes away the irony of a child deemed useless and tossed away becoming the strongest of them all because he was tossed away. It's not entertaining on its own. It's not well-constructed on its own. It actually damages the themes of the manga. There are plenty of reasons to criticize DBM without touching on the Bardock Special. The fact that it contradicts a much better "origin" story is simply the cherry on this shit-filled sundae. I say without hyperbole that Dragon Ball Minus is among the worst narratives to carry the Dragon Ball name.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Honestly, in a world where DBM existed without the special (and by extension any other Bardock media), Bardock would come across just like Gine: a shallow character that exists only as an attempt at fanservice.

WoW WoW, stop right there, what's exactly fanservice in DBM?

[Gaffer Tape]

Honestly, in a world where DBM existed without the special (and by extension any other Bardock media), Bardock would come across just like Gine: a shallow character that exists only as an attempt at fanservice.

WoW WoW, stop right there, what's exactly fanservice in DBM?

Um... well, everything, actually. Dragon Ball Minus is nearly 100% blatant fanservice. You get to see Raditz as a kid! That stupid old Bardock special didn't even bother to show him! But now we get to see him for no reason at all so he can contribute nothing to the plot! To all those fans hoping against hope that Goku might meet Bardock some day, and that he'd be a really awesome guy who learned the error of his ways? You get to see that Bardock really loved him all along! And the piece de resistance: Goku's mom! After all these years of begging for it, we finally get to meet Goku's mom! And she's so nice, like some kind of alien June Cleaver! I'm swooning!

It is all fanservice. All of it. Just a bunch of checkboxes of random stuff guaranteed to make sections of the fanbase salivate with nary a hint of substance to justify it.

[Soppa Saia People]

Honestly, in a world where DBM existed without the special (and by extension any other Bardock media), Bardock would come across just like Gine: a shallow character that exists only as an attempt at fanservice.

WoW WoW, stop right there, what's exactly fanservice in DBM?

Gine.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Note the word "hypothetical" in the title.

Your response doesn't make any sense. Kunzait perfectly outlined this hypothetical world by unraveling it from its start and heading forward again.

Maybe I should have worded it differently. He wrote a short paragraph on how Bardock wouldn't have existed if X hadn't happened. I was already aware, that's why I had put "hypothetical" in the title. I was just letting him know that I knew, but that for the sake of the thread, we're pretending that Bardock just existed anyway. That's why I only quoted that particular portion of his post.

I was going to type up my own small review, but Gaffer Tape hit my main points, and I don't feel the desire to type up anything if it's already in complete agreement with everyone so far.