perucho1990 wrote:I want to talk about the Hit Mini Arc.
I was thinking Goku got a zenkai when he got revived after Hit "killed him", Zenkai started being relevant again during the Trunks Arc, besides Goku is far stronger than his U6 self thanks to Black, who wanted him to be at his peak.
Zenkai's weren't relevant during the trunks arc. Goku black getting infinite bullshit zenkai boosts in the anime were most likely toei fluff.
It's already been stated Zenkai's are miniscule after a super saiyan transformation
Abra kadabra wrote:
Zenkai's weren't relevant during the trunks arc. Goku black getting infinite bullshit zenkai boosts in the anime were most likely toei fluff.
It's already been stated Zenkai's are miniscule after a super saiyan transformation
Goku, Vegeta and Trunks also got zenkais in the anime(although not as ridiculous as Black), Black speech of wanting to kill Goku at his peak to satisfy his body is a proof Goku at thend of the Trunks Arc is far stronger than his Champa Arc self.
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Roshi is a better character simple as that.
We had enough of Saiyans we don't need more. Especially kids that never earned becoming a Super Saiyan, something that their fathers worked very hard on and didn't achieve until they were full grown adults.
And Gohan doesn't deserve his mystic state either. He never earned it. They should replace him with yamcha
Yamcha fights even less than Gohan these days. He also stopped training before him. Also if Gohan has that state back, he most likely trained for it.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Lujin_16 wrote:
Because the new arc is to serious for kids that's it
don't you mean for teens? Goten and Trunks are 13 and 14 and if theres a timeskip they will be even older, Gohan had already killed Cell and turned ssj2 at that age
Goten never really was a main guy. He's like a mini Goku, and he doesn't really even have a clear cut personality.
Kid Trunks on the other hand got some development last Arc, but at the end of the day if its a fight to the death which the name of this new arc implies, then obviously their mothers wouldn't let them participate. No sane mom alive would let her 13 year old son participate in a tournament where killing is allowed.
You mean like when Gohan fought Cell even thou he was younger and didnt give a f*ck about what Chichi said?
DI297 wrote:I dont even know why I keep waiting for Goten and Trunks to do something since Toriyama thinks that an old sack of weak bones that cant even fly like Roshi is more important and stronger than them, super cant stop dissapointing me.
Roshi is a better character simple as that.
Sure, an old man that is weaker than Krillin and cant even fly is way better than them.
DI297 wrote:I dont even know why I keep waiting for Goten and Trunks to do something since Toriyama thinks that an old sack of weak bones that cant even fly like Roshi is more important and stronger than them, super cant stop dissapointing me.
Roshi is a better character simple as that.
Sure, an old man that is weaker than Krillin and cant even fly is way better than them.
Being able to fly or not has absolutely nothing to do with being a better character.
We don't know yet what kind of role Goten and Trunks will have, but if they don't get any, it just means Toriyama didn't want to write anything for them, like in RoF.
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Roshi is a better character simple as that.
Sure, an old man that is weaker than Krillin and cant even fly is way better than them.
Being able to fly or not has absolutely nothing to do with being a better character.
We don't know yet what kind of role Goten and Trunks will have, but if they don't get any, it just means Toriyama didn't want to write anything for them, like in RoF.
Sure, being able to fly has nothing to do with being a good character in a universal fight, I bet his perviness will help a lot during that fight.
DI297 wrote:I dont even know why I keep waiting for Goten and Trunks to do something since Toriyama thinks that an old sack of weak bones that cant even fly like Roshi is more important and stronger than them, super cant stop dissapointing me.
Roshi is a better character simple as that.
Sure, an old man that is weaker than Krillin and cant even fly is way better than them.
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Roshi is a better character simple as that.
We had enough of Saiyans we don't need more. Especially kids that never earned becoming a Super Saiyan, something that their fathers worked very hard on and didn't achieve until they were full grown adults.
And Gohan doesn't deserve his mystic state either. He never earned it. They should replace him with yamcha
Don't give me that. I don't care about Gohan but I have to defend him here. At least in the Saiyan Saga it was foreshadowed a plethora of times that he had amazing potential. He was fighting full grown Saiyan adults at the age of 5 and then went to Namek and fought the most feared galactic dictator in the Universe in Freeza. People forget his rage moments when he absolutely knocked the breath out of Freeza twice; once when Freeza was in his second form, and the other when Freeza was in his third form. Then if you include filler he fought and defeated Garlic Jr. Then we all know about Cell.
The point is that Gohan's past of a fighting prodigy and multiple experiences in battle for someone his age made it acceptable for him to become Mystic, despite the ludicrous way of HOW it happened. Goten on the other hand, was NOT brought up that way, never had anything foreshadowed for him like Gohan, yet somehow achieved something at the age of 7 where millions of his people never achieved after a lifetime of training.
omaro34 wrote:
We had enough of Saiyans we don't need more. Especially kids that never earned becoming a Super Saiyan, something that their fathers worked very hard on and didn't achieve until they were full grown adults.
And Gohan doesn't deserve his mystic state either. He never earned it. They should replace him with yamcha
Don't give me that. I don't care about Gohan but I have to defend him here. At least in the Saiyan Saga it was foreshadowed a plethora of times that he had amazing potential. He was fighting full grown Saiyan adults at the age of 5 and then went to Namek and fought the most feared galactic dictator in the Universe in Freeza. People forget his rage moments when he absolutely knocked the breath out of Freeza twice; once when Freeza was in his second form, and the other when Freeza was in his third form. Then if you include filler he fought and defeated Garlic Jr. Then we all know about Cell.
The point is that Gohan's past of a fighting prodigy and multiple experiences in battle for someone his age made it acceptable for him to become Mystic, despite the ludicrous way of HOW it happened. Goten on the other hand, was NOT brought up that way, never had anything foreshadowed for him like Gohan, yet somehow achieved something at the age of 7 where millions of his people never achieved after a lifetime of training.
I rest my case.
Gohan was never a fighting prodigy. He's actually a terrible fighter, who sat on his ass to receive the mother of all power ups. Him becoming SSJ2 was the real culmination of that build up. Then the mystic state just dragged it out. Goten and trunks should logically have more potential than gohan but "dah most potential" is the only thing Gohan has going for him in terms of fighting
Abra kadabra wrote:
And Gohan doesn't deserve his mystic state either. He never earned it. They should replace him with yamcha
Don't give me that. I don't care about Gohan but I have to defend him here. At least in the Saiyan Saga it was foreshadowed a plethora of times that he had amazing potential. He was fighting full grown Saiyan adults at the age of 5 and then went to Namek and fought the most feared galactic dictator in the Universe in Freeza. People forget his rage moments when he absolutely knocked the breath out of Freeza twice; once when Freeza was in his second form, and the other when Freeza was in his third form. Then if you include filler he fought and defeated Garlic Jr. Then we all know about Cell.
The point is that Gohan's past of a fighting prodigy and multiple experiences in battle for someone his age made it acceptable for him to become Mystic, despite the ludicrous way of HOW it happened. Goten on the other hand, was NOT brought up that way, never had anything foreshadowed for him like Gohan, yet somehow achieved something at the age of 7 where millions of his people never achieved after a lifetime of training.
I rest my case.
Gohan was never a fighting prodigy. He's actually a terrible fighter, who sat on his ass to receive the mother of all power ups. Him becoming SSJ2 was the real culmination of that build up. Then the mystic state just dragged it out. Goten and trunks should logically have more potential than gohan but "dah most potential" is the only thing Gohan has going for him in terms of fighting
If he was never a fighting prodigy, he'd never be able to keep up with the others with minimalist training. The same with Goten and Freeza who were unbelievably strong without training, and nailed techniques much sooner than it took the others. Seriously with Trunks they fused and learned to use SSJ3 in a ridiculously short and faster time than Goku ever did, and those boys aren't considered as skilled as Gohan since they had even less training than him. They second generation is all about being fighting prodigies who learn quick and adapt faster than full blood saiyans, but are far less into battle and honing their skills.
Not to mention the mother of all power ups for doing fuck all is SSJ God.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Abra kadabra wrote:Gohan was never a fighting prodigy. He's actually a terrible fighter...
That's just not the case. In both Saiyan and Freeza Arcs he's show to have great promise. He hurts Freeza when no one else could, twice. He injured Raditz, an enemy that Piccolo and Goku could barely touch, in a fit of rage. Granted he was never vastly superior outside of those + Cell Games, but he was consistently greater than Kuririn in the Freeza Arc, even said to have raw power rivaling Vegeta. He achieves Super Saiyan relatively easily, and masters it too. Gohan, whether you like it or not, whether it suits his current lifestyle or not, was, is, and always will be a fighting prodigy.
Abra kadabra wrote:
And Gohan doesn't deserve his mystic state either. He never earned it. They should replace him with yamcha
Don't give me that. I don't care about Gohan but I have to defend him here. At least in the Saiyan Saga it was foreshadowed a plethora of times that he had amazing potential. He was fighting full grown Saiyan adults at the age of 5 and then went to Namek and fought the most feared galactic dictator in the Universe in Freeza. People forget his rage moments when he absolutely knocked the breath out of Freeza twice; once when Freeza was in his second form, and the other when Freeza was in his third form. Then if you include filler he fought and defeated Garlic Jr. Then we all know about Cell.
The point is that Gohan's past of a fighting prodigy and multiple experiences in battle for someone his age made it acceptable for him to become Mystic, despite the ludicrous way of HOW it happened. Goten on the other hand, was NOT brought up that way, never had anything foreshadowed for him like Gohan, yet somehow achieved something at the age of 7 where millions of his people never achieved after a lifetime of training.
I rest my case.
Gohan was never a fighting prodigy. He's actually a terrible fighter, who sat on his ass to receive the mother of all power ups. Him becoming SSJ2 was the real culmination of that build up. Then the mystic state just dragged it out. Goten and trunks should logically have more potential than gohan but "dah most potential" is the only thing Gohan has going for him in terms of fighting
Gohan never a fighting prodigy? Did you even watch the series? How can a 5 year old knock out a full grown Saiyan adult in Raditz if he wasn't a fighting prodigy? How was he able to create a large boulder when Piccolo threw him towards a mountain? Nobody taught him these things, it was just instinct. I can give you so many other examples but then I would be writing an essay.
DI297 wrote:
Sure, an old man that is weaker than Krillin and cant even fly is way better than them.
Magetta can't fly but still participates.
No one said Magetta was a good character, as Vegeta said he is just a can
Who cares what Vegeta says. Magetta is actually well liked. Trunks and Goten have nothing special about them and no history. All the others have something special about them.
We dont need any more Saiyans and 70% are non Saiyan which is great and hopefully it will show all Saiyan lovers why I think the non Saiyans are the best and most interesting fighters.
omaro34 wrote:
Don't give me that. I don't care about Gohan but I have to defend him here. At least in the Saiyan Saga it was foreshadowed a plethora of times that he had amazing potential. He was fighting full grown Saiyan adults at the age of 5 and then went to Namek and fought the most feared galactic dictator in the Universe in Freeza. People forget his rage moments when he absolutely knocked the breath out of Freeza twice; once when Freeza was in his second form, and the other when Freeza was in his third form. Then if you include filler he fought and defeated Garlic Jr. Then we all know about Cell.
The point is that Gohan's past of a fighting prodigy and multiple experiences in battle for someone his age made it acceptable for him to become Mystic, despite the ludicrous way of HOW it happened. Goten on the other hand, was NOT brought up that way, never had anything foreshadowed for him like Gohan, yet somehow achieved something at the age of 7 where millions of his people never achieved after a lifetime of training.
I rest my case.
Gohan was never a fighting prodigy. He's actually a terrible fighter, who sat on his ass to receive the mother of all power ups. Him becoming SSJ2 was the real culmination of that build up. Then the mystic state just dragged it out. Goten and trunks should logically have more potential than gohan but "dah most potential" is the only thing Gohan has going for him in terms of fighting
Gohan never a fighting prodigy? Did you even watch the series? How can a 5 year old knock out a full grown Saiyan adult in Raditz if he wasn't a fighting prodigy? How was he able to create a large boulder when Piccolo threw him towards a mountain? Nobody taught him these things, it was just instinct. I can give you so many other examples but then I would be writing an essay.
Gohan only wins when he's overwhelmingly more power than his opponents. It has nothing to do with fighting prowess or technique. His hidden potential was a plot device. Now a tired plot device.
Magetta is My favorite U6 fighter. He is Big, adorable, and fights a bit differently from others. I think his lava blast and how he uses them are nifty and I don't know many characters who could blow away Vegeta with, what was pretty much and an exploding fart.
