"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[goku the krump dancer]

Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).

Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.

[OLKv3]

Whis never corrects Beerus until someone else proves him wrong. He just sits back and stays sarcastic

Whis would have corrected Beerus instead of just letting Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks go into the future with hope that Beerus was right. He maybe laid back, but he wouldn't send people to their deaths on false hope.

No he wouldn't. He doesn't interfere unless it's training and he feels they learned their lesson. When Goku and crew return, Whis isn't surprised at all and mocks Beerus for being wrong.

[HeroR]

No he wouldn't. He doesn't interfere unless it's training and he feels they learned their lesson. When Goku and crew return, Whis isn't surprised at all and mocks Beerus for being wrong.

He didn't mock Beerus for being wrong and it makes no sense for Whis to remain silent if Beerus was pushing wrong information and he didn't know any better. Plus, Whis is far from neutral since he went out of his way to create a new timeline for Trunks and Mai when he didn't have to do a thing. And he didn't helped them because he was training them.

[Sora Saiyan]

Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).

Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.

I totally agree with this! I found it annoying that Blue was always getting beat on. Finally the manga has shown that Blue isn't a level that is easily reached, and is a ridiculous level above any form shown prior.

[HeroR]

Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).

Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.

I totally agree with this! I found it annoying that Blue was always getting beat on. Finally the manga has shown that Blue isn't a level that is easily reached, and is a ridiculous level above any form shown prior.

That was always shown in the anime. The only people who beat up Blue were Golden Freeza, Hit, Black, and Merged Zamasu. All the manga really did was nerf everyone else, especially Black who doesn't have his Rose form, while gimping Blue by giving it a 90% stamina drop by just transforming in and out.

[Kanassa]

Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).

Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.

I totally agree with this! I found it annoying that Blue was always getting beat on. Finally the manga has shown that Blue isn't a level that is easily reached, and is a ridiculous level above any form shown prior.

That was always shown in the anime. The only people who beat up Blue were Golden Freeza, Hit, Black, and Merged Zamasu. All the manga really did was nerf everyone else, especially Black who doesn't have his Rose form, while gimping Blue by giving it a 90% stamina drop by just transforming in and out.

I wouldn't call it beating up, more standing up against and forced to stab in the back. Hell, in the Champa and Revival Arc, if you weren't the main villain Blue just one-punches you.

[perucho1990]

In the anime Blue defeated Golden Frieza,Cabba and Copy Vegeta.(Not including Trunks because he and Vegeta were sparring).

Its not like everyone Blue has never won in DBS.

[Araki]

I totally agree with this! I found it annoying that Blue was always getting beat on. Finally the manga has shown that Blue isn't a level that is easily reached, and is a ridiculous level above any form shown prior.

That was always shown in the anime. The only people who beat up Blue were Golden Freeza, Hit, Black, and Merged Zamasu. All the manga really did was nerf everyone else, especially Black who doesn't have his Rose form, while gimping Blue by giving it a 90% stamina drop by just transforming in and out.

I wouldn't call it beating up, more standing up against and forced to stab in the back. Hell, in the Champa and Revival Arc, if you weren't the main villain Blue just one-punches you.

Yeah, and Hit only defeated Vegeta because he couldn't understand his ability in time. So only SS Rosé Goku Black and Merged Zamasu actually gave Blue a beating, when you think about it.
Nerfing characters like Black and making him a smaller challenge so that Blue can look good isn't exactly a good thing in my book. Not to mention Toyotaro gave Blue that stupid 10% drawback on his own.

[micah007]

I think the 10% drawback was hinted at in the anime. During the tournament Goku says he was saving Blue for later when someone asked him to use the form in a fight, to me that hinted at the drawback since if it didn't take a lot out of him to use the transformation fully once then he would use it like regular SS back to back.

[Araki]

I think the 10% drawback was hinted at in the anime. During the tournament Goku says he was saving Blue for later when someone asked him to use the form in a fight, to me that hinted at the drawback since if it didn't take a lot out of him to use the transformation fully once then he would use it like regular SS back to back.

I think that just implied he didn't want to reveal his trump card, not to mention Goku doesn't go all out right away. We've seen both him and Vegeta transforming more than once with no reference to that flaw, though.

[dbzfan7]

I think the 10% drawback was hinted at in the anime. During the tournament Goku says he was saving Blue for later when someone asked him to use the form in a fight, to me that hinted at the drawback since if it didn't take a lot out of him to use the transformation fully once then he would use it like regular SS back to back.

I think so too as it's a very good reason not to just use SSJB right off the bat and simply just win all the previous rounds with ease.

[HeroR]

I wouldn't call it beating up, more standing up against and forced to stab in the back. Hell, in the Champa and Revival Arc, if you weren't the main villain Blue just one-punches you.

Golden Freeza was physical stronger than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, especially in Super. Goku only won because Freeza was dumb and didn't master his form. So, I sorta gave Freeza the edge there, although the god form turned out better overall since it didn't have the massive power drain.

Yeah, and Hit only defeated Vegeta because he couldn't understand his ability in time. So only SS Rosé Goku Black and Merged Zamasu actually gave Blue a beating, when you think about it.
Nerfing characters like Black and making him a smaller challenge so that Blue can look good isn't exactly a good thing in my book. Not to mention Toyotaro gave Blue that stupid 10% drawback on his own.

Given how Hit improved, Vegeta most likely would have lost since he didn't have a Kakioken trump card. Also, Goku is an overall better fighter than Vegeta who can think on his feet. Vegeta would have done a lot better and it wouldn't have been an utter stomped, but Hit still had the edge.

I think the 10% drawback was hinted at in the anime. During the tournament Goku says he was saving Blue for later when someone asked him to use the form in a fight, to me that hinted at the drawback since if it didn't take a lot out of him to use the transformation fully once then he would use it like regular SS back to back.

I think that just implied he didn't want to reveal his trump card, not to mention Goku doesn't go all out right away. We've seen both him and Vegeta transforming more than once with no reference to that flaw, though.

Petty much. Look at the baseball game where Goku transformed twice and still could knocked back Vegeta's pitch. Vegeta also did an in and out transformation against Black during round 2. Goku and Vegeta, if I recall, was also knocked out of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan during the battle against Merged Zamasu and were still able to transform and fight.

[micah007]

I think that just implied he didn't want to reveal his trump card, not to mention Goku doesn't go all out right away. We've seen both him and Vegeta transforming more than once with no reference to that flaw, though.

Petty much. Look at the baseball game where Goku transformed twice and still could knocked back Vegeta's pitch. Vegeta also did an in and out transformation against Black during round 2. Goku and Vegeta, if I recall, was also knocked out of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan during the battle against Merged Zamasu and were still able to transform and fight.

Well it is possible the drawback could have been overcome by now.

[buutenks]

Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).

Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.

I agree with this. ssj blue felt very underwhelming, especially after Trunks managed to get to that level without any reason other than that the writers wanted it.

The manga power scaling makes way more sense and i also like how ssg and ssj blue are actually as powerful as they should be, and not every new introduced character is as strong or stronger than those forms.

And yes i know some of you will say: But this always was the case in DB. Look at the androids or Buu. Thing is, the androids 17 and 18 were at best what 2-3 times stronger than Freeza. Here the gap between Z and ssg is massive. It is unimaginable. It is a gap where Goku knew he couldnt reach on his own and Whis backs this up when he says that Vegeta without WHis' help can never become as strong as Goku. So all these enemies appearing at ssj blue level out of the blue is pretty much poor writing. While Toyotaru did well to balance it. Unlike the anime where its a huge mess. Where apparently Beerus got from 40% stronger than ssg, to 10000x times stronger. The reason? Because the writers messed up with the power scaling, especially with the introduction of kk.

[Will]

Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).

Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.

I agree with this. ssj blue felt very underwhelming, especially after Trunks managed to get to that level without any reason other than that the writers wanted it.

The manga power scaling makes way more sense and i also like how ssg and ssj blue are actually as powerful as they should be, and not every new introduced character is as strong or stronger than those forms.

And yes i know some of you will say: But this always was the case in DB. Look at the androids or Buu. Thing is, the androids 17 and 18 were at best what 2-3 times stronger than Freeza. Here the gap between Z and ssg is massive. It is unimaginable. It is a gap where Goku knew he couldnt reach on his own and Whis backs this up when he says that Vegeta without WHis' help can never become as strong as Goku. So all these enemies appearing at ssj blue level out of the blue is pretty much poor writing. While Toyotaru did well to balance it. Unlike the anime where its a huge mess. Where apparently Beerus got from 40% stronger than ssg, to 100x times stronger. The reason? Because the writers messed up with the power scaling, especially with the introduction of kk.

Beerus didn't talk about his % to Goku in Super.

[buutenks]

Beerus didn't about his % to Goku in Super.

I know, but he did say he used 10% vs Vegeta...

[DHM211]

Comparison of SSJ2 Black and SSJ Rose Black.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Will]

Beerus didn't about his % to Goku in Super.

I know, but he did say he used 10% vs Vegeta...

Since when he used his 10´%, Vegeta could don't do anything anymore, he didn't need 10%

[buutenks]

Comparison of SSJ2 Black and SSJ Rose Black.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

What can i say, both forms are cool looking.

Beerus didn't about his % to Goku in Super.

I know, but he did say he used 10% vs Vegeta...

Since when he used his 10´%, Vegeta could don't do anything anymore, he didn't need 10%

Ok what point r you trying to make?

My point is that Beerus is currently hundreds of not thousands of times stronger than ssg in the anime because of bad writing. Not because that was the plan.

Also, if he didnt need 10%, why didnt he use 1%?

[jplaya2023]

Seen some leaks i dunno if black is ssj2 or not. The sparks are there but the hair is wrong. Toto has done a good job at drawing ssj2s in the manga so it's to early to tell.

if black really doesn't have rose then vegeta should win easily setting up an easy win vs zamazu.

Has the devils corspe provided a summary yet?