DHM211 wrote:Comparison of SSJ2 Black and SSJ Rose Black.
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What can i say, both forms are cool looking.
Will wrote:
buutenks wrote:
I know, but he did say he used 10% vs Vegeta...
Since when he used his 10´%, Vegeta could don't do anything anymore, he didn't need 10%
Ok what point r you trying to make?
My point is that Beerus is currently hundreds of not thousands of times stronger than ssg in the anime because of bad writing. Not because that was the plan.
Also, if he didnt need 10%, why didnt he use 1%?
My point is that the only % information is that 10% Beerus is way stronger than Rageta from BOG arc.
When he use 10%, it didn't became an equal fight, 10%Beerus was way stronger.
goku the krump dancer wrote:Personally I feel like Black was WAY too OP in the anime and Vegeta beating him down towards the end, didnt quite cut it for me. So seeing as though Toyotaro has SSJBlue be put on this pedestal that the form cant be touched unless the User misuses it, or is Beerus. I'm loving that Vegeta seems to be laying the smackdown pretty early, even with Black learning SSJ(2?)(Rose'?)(Rose'2?).
Side note I love that Toyotaro has Blue on this untouchable throne, it gives the form more of an impact. Thus far anime wise, both Goku and Vegeta have been getting their asses kicked in that form since its inception, which makes it feel a bit meaningless.
I agree with this. ssj blue felt very underwhelming, especially after Trunks managed to get to that level without any reason other than that the writers wanted it.
The manga power scaling makes way more sense and i also like how ssg and ssj blue are actually as powerful as they should be, and not every new introduced character is as strong or stronger than those forms.
And yes i know some of you will say: But this always was the case in DB. Look at the androids or Buu. Thing is, the androids 17 and 18 were at best what 2-3 times stronger than Freeza. Here the gap between Z and ssg is massive. It is unimaginable. It is a gap where Goku knew he couldnt reach on his own and Whis backs this up when he says that Vegeta without WHis' help can never become as strong as Goku. So all these enemies appearing at ssj blue level out of the blue is pretty much poor writing. While Toyotaru did well to balance it. Unlike the anime where its a huge mess. Where apparently Beerus got from 40% stronger than ssg, to 10000x times stronger. The reason? Because the writers messed up with the power scaling, especially with the introduction of kk.
'
Yeah I definitely agree on how more prestigious Blue is being treated in the manga...but it does seem at a cost of not as threatening villains..
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I don't see how the scaling isn't as fucked as the anime now that Black has an SS3, possibly SSGod tier Base form AND regular SS forms being stacked on top of it with Rose possibly being added soon too. Unless you GT the fuck out of his form multipliers, the PLs for the manga just got severely bloated.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Sora Saiyan wrote:
I totally agree with this! I found it annoying that Blue was always getting beat on. Finally the manga has shown that Blue isn't a level that is easily reached, and is a ridiculous level above any form shown prior.
That was always shown in the anime. The only people who beat up Blue were Golden Freeza, Hit, Black, and Merged Zamasu. All the manga really did was nerf everyone else, especially Black who doesn't have his Rose form, while gimping Blue by giving it a 90% stamina drop by just transforming in and out.
I wouldn't call it beating up, more standing up against and forced to stab in the back. Hell, in the Champa and Revival Arc, if you weren't the main villain Blue just one-punches you.
I think Blue looks terrible in the anime at times. It couldn't grind base Black into paste, Trunks could keep up with its movements against Vegeta (unlike in the manga when Godku defeated him). Trunks could knock Rose back briefly when he decided to help Goku, and Blue Goku was as crippled as Trunks when hit with that Black KHH.
In the manga Hit had his nifty ability, but power wise he fell short of Blue, although he did surpass normal Godku briefly. When Blue fights the weaker characters in the manga it wrecks, and you never see the weaker characters keeping up, ala Goku and Trunks vs Black and Zamasu.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I've only seen SS2, have more pages leaked since last night?
Noah wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I don't see how the scaling isn't as fucked as the anime now that Black has an SS3...
What? Black become a Super Saiyan 3 in the manga? I can't believe it!
You're misinterpreting what he said. He said "now that Black has an SS3, possibly SSGod tier base form" meaning Black is as strong as a SSJ3 and maybe even a SSJG in his base form.
Helios518 wrote:You're misinterpreting what he said. He said " now that Black has an SS3, possibly SSGod tier base form" meaning Black's base form is as strong as a SSJ3 and maybe even a SSJG.
Oh, thank god, although that would be pretty badass
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Okay, one way I can see this all working is if Black only has SS1 and the lightning is just a Vegetto-esque thing where his powers so great it causes lightning even in the aura of SS1. But if Black has 1,2 AND Rose.. .
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Okay, one way I can see this all working is if Black only has SS1 and the lightning is just a Vegetto-esque thing where his powers so great it causes lightning even in the aura of SS1. But if Black has 1,2 AND Rose.. .
ekrolo2 wrote:I don't see how the scaling isn't as fucked as the anime now that Black has an SS3, possibly SSGod tier Base form AND regular SS forms being stacked on top of it with Rose possibly being added soon too. Unless you GT the fuck out of his form multipliers, the PLs for the manga just got severely bloated.
Time to stop destroying those brain cells worrying about the scaling and just enjoying the content for what it then.
He devolved into saying only one word. Time to hit the ol' cosmic trail.
ekrolo2 wrote:I don't see how the scaling isn't as fucked as the anime now that Black has an SS3, possibly SSGod tier Base form AND regular SS forms being stacked on top of it with Rose possibly being added soon too. Unless you GT the fuck out of his form multipliers, the PLs for the manga just got severely bloated.
Time to stop destroying those brain cells worrying about the scaling and just enjoying the content for what it then.
If scalling was the sole problem with Super you'd have a point but it's far from the only thing that makes it a turd.
buutenks wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Okay, one way I can see this all working is if Black only has SS1 and the lightning is just a Vegetto-esque thing where his powers so great it causes lightning even in the aura of SS1. But if Black has 1,2 AND Rose.. .
And what if he does?
Then the powers are fucked for the manga too.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Okay, one way I can see this all working is if Black only has SS1 and the lightning is just a Vegetto-esque thing where his powers so great it causes lightning even in the aura of SS1. But if Black has 1,2 AND Rose.. .
Okay i finally saw those leaked scans. Black was a ssj2(he hais the ssj2 Goku hair style with only 3 bangs), but he got such a trashing from Vegeta he dropped to ssj1 then Vegeta tried to kill him but Zamasu saved him and healed him.
Plus ssj1 Vegeta is able to push base Black back with one kick. Note Black blocked the kick with both his arms and he was still pushed back 10 meters.
ekrolo2 wrote:Okay, one way I can see this all working is if Black only has SS1 and the lightning is just a Vegetto-esque thing where his powers so great it causes lightning even in the aura of SS1. But if Black has 1,2 AND Rose.. .
Okay i finally saw those leaked scans. Black was a ssj2(he hais the ssj2 Goku hair style with only 3 bangs), but he got such a trashing from Vegeta he dropped to ssj1 then Vegeta tried to kill him but Zamasu saved him and healed him.
ekrolo2 wrote:Okay, one way I can see this all working is if Black only has SS1 and the lightning is just a Vegetto-esque thing where his powers so great it causes lightning even in the aura of SS1. But if Black has 1,2 AND Rose.. .
Okay i finally saw those leaked scans. Black was a ssj2(he hais the ssj2 Goku hair style with only 3 bangs), but he got such a trashing from Vegeta he dropped to ssj1 then Vegeta tried to kill him but Zamasu saved him and healed him.
I don't think that he has Goku's SSJ2 Hair
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SSJ2 Goku for comparison
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Wow, did u not read what i wrote? I said, he got such a trashing from Vegeta he dropped from ssj2 to 1. U really want me to link u those scans with his hair having only 3 bangs? Seems u didnt saw all the leaked scans.
Sora Saiyan wrote:
I think Blue looks terrible in the anime at times. It couldn't grind base Black into paste, Trunks could keep up with its movements against Vegeta (unlike in the manga when Godku defeated him). Trunks could knock Rose back briefly when he decided to help Goku, and Blue Goku was as crippled as Trunks when hit with that Black KHH.
In the manga Hit had his nifty ability, but power wise he fell short of Blue, although he did surpass normal Godku briefly. When Blue fights the weaker characters in the manga it wrecks, and you never see the weaker characters keeping up, ala Goku and Trunks vs Black and Zamasu.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku one-shotted, Trunks, so it makes Goku look weaker that he used Super Saiyan God. And Vegeta beat the shit out of Trunks in his Blue form. Hit just look weak in the manga.
The only 'weaker' character that kept up with Blue in the anime was Future Zamasu, whose an immortal.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
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