The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[RedShift]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

[Dr. Gero]

Dragon Ball Humans Run the Vegeta Gauntlet!

Manga-only speaking, we know Kuririn was 75,000 in the fight against Freeza and possibly kept getting stronger, maybe reaching, let's say, 100,000. Post three years training for the Androids' arrival, he got a good deal stronger, like 2x or so (more or less the same boost he got from the training for the Budôkais). So he'd be around 200,000 according to my guesses.

The other humans were probably quite a good deal weaker than Kuririn, since they hadn't their potentials unlocked by the Great Elder and Kuririn is labeled as the strongest human even 7 years post the Boo saga, meaning that Tenshinhan didn't reach his level of strength even after all of this time... the potential unlock is really something. I could see Tenshinhan maybe reaching Captain Ginyu's level of power, which is already pretty, pretty far for a human, considering the Ginyu squad was Freeza's elite warriors.

We have official levels for Vegeta until his fight against 1st form Freeza, which are:

Saiyan saga -> 18,000
Vs Kiwi -> 24,000
Vs Reacoom -> 30,000
Vs 1st form Freeza -> 250,000

So the humans could probably pull off a victory against Vegeta (vs 1st form Freeza), but anything beyond that would be too much for them.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

Nope, they get completely destroyed. Buu doesn't even need to absorb that many people, taking Janemba alone would be enough for him to solo easily.

Their only hope is for Goku to prepare the mother of all Spirit Bombs while the rest hold Buu off.

[dragonball0900]

Dragon Ball Humans Run the Vegeta Gauntlet!

Manga-only speaking, we know Kuririn was 75,000 in the fight against Freeza and possibly kept getting stronger, maybe reaching, let's say, 100,000. Post three years training for the Androids' arrival, he got a good deal stronger, like 2x or so (more or less the same boost he got from the training for the Budôkais). So he'd be around 200,000 according to my guesses.

The other humans were probably quite a good deal weaker than Kuririn, since they hadn't their potentials unlocked by the Great Elder and Kuririn is labeled as the strongest human even 7 years post the Boo saga, meaning that Tenshinhan didn't reach his level of strength even after all of this time... the potential unlock is really something. I could see Tenshinhan maybe reaching Captain Ginyu's level of power, which is already pretty, pretty far for a human, considering the Ginyu squad was Freeza's elite warriors.

We have official levels for Vegeta until his fight against 1st form Freeza, which are:

Saiyan saga -> 18,000
Vs Kiwi -> 24,000
Vs Reacoom -> 30,000
Vs 1st form Freeza -> 250,000

So the humans could probably pull off a victory against Vegeta (vs 1st form Freeza), but anything beyond that would be too much for them.

I wouldn't say Tien was weaker than Krillin because of that. I have Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu increasing 25 times their Saiyan Saga powers, that's because unlike Goku (who got 20 times stronger his old power) they trained together and it was stated that training with partners was better than training alone.

First with Yamcha. We know Yamcha trained nearly the same amount as Goku (Goku was 158 days and Yamcha 130, not that far), with him having Tien and Chiaotzu as partners, that leaves him to have:
1480 x25 = 37000
Yamcha would have 37K after training with King Kai.

Now Tien. He trained 260 days which is nearly twice of what Yamcha and Goku did. That means that we can duplicate the X25, and make it a X50:
1830 x25 = 45000 (the power level he had when they revived Krillin and Yamcha with the Namek Dragon Balls, 130 days after the Frieza battle)
After that he trained another 130 days, where the 45K can duplicate, that forms 90K.

And finally, Chiaotzu. He trained 260 just like Tien.
610 x25 = 15000
Then 15000 x2 is 30000. 30K

So in the end of the Frieza arc, their power levels would be:

- Tien - 90K
- Krillin - 80-85K (considering the time of 130 days had passed between his revival and Tien's)
- Yamcha - 40K (I know, he probably didn't even train to get from 37 to 40, but maybe he just wanted to catch up a bit?)
- Chiaotzu - 30K

Also we have to remember that Tien makes harder training than Krillin. Not like the saiyans obviously, but he tries harder than Krillin at least.

[RedShift]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

Nope, they get completely destroyed. Buu doesn't even need to absorb that many people, taking Janemba alone would be enough for him to solo easily.

Their only hope is for Goku to prepare the mother of all Spirit Bombs while the rest hold Buu off.

I figured that with the group fighting all at once they might have a slim chance... But I don't see it either. Super Buu with the power & abilities of Janemba and the intelligence of Dabura would be hard enough to stop. At this point you need the Gogeta/Vegetto overkill button.

[MatrixChap]

I've got a fight: A one-on-one-on-one of Android #16 vs. #17 vs. #18. Who wins using their power levels from before Cell absorbed #17?

[DanielSSJ]

I've got a fight: A one-on-one-on-one of Android #16 vs. #17 vs. #18. Who wins using their power levels from before Cell absorbed #17?

Wasn't #16 a lot stronger than the other two? I doubt that even if the other two ganged up on him that they'd be able to win.

[Angelus]

I've got a fight: A one-on-one-on-one of Android #16 vs. #17 vs. #18. Who wins using their power levels from before Cell absorbed #17?

#16 wrecks both of them. 16 was very close in power with Post-humans absorption Imperfect Cell. This Imperfect Cell overpowered both Kamiccolo and #17. Imagine just replacing Kamiccolo with #18 and you would still have the same result.


Here's one a versus:

22nd WMAT Chiaotzu VS 22nd WMAT Roshi

[DanielSSJ]

22nd WMAT Chiaotzu VS 22nd WMAT Roshi

Muten Roshi has a clear power and skill advantage, but would still be vulnerable to Chiaotzu's telekinesis. On the other hand, Chiaotzu is an idiot, and is susceptible to trickery. Really, if Kuririn can fool Chiaotzu to letting down his guard with math problems, I have complete confidence that Muten Roshi can do the same.

[Ki Breaker]

•Serious roshi vs raditz
•Serious roshi vs nappa
•Serious roshi vs whole Dragonball

I am confident he can beat them all,
Because apparently roshi was always as strong as in rof, he was just not feeling the need to get serious..
And now in universe survival arc he is in the team..
That guy is hiding his power from the beginning of db, it was all a farse guys..
All of it

[dragonball0900]

•Serious roshi vs raditz
•Serious roshi vs nappa
•Serious roshi vs whole Dragonball

I am confident he can beat them all,
Because apparently roshi was always as strong as in rof, he was just not feeling the need to get serious..
And now in universe survival arc he is in the team..
That guy is hiding his power from the beginning of db, it was all a farse guys..
All of it

He can beat the whole Dragon Ball and Raditz for sure. Don't know if he can beat Nappa, that's up to each one's interpretation. I have both of them somewhere equal.

[Doctor.]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

Everyone but Gohan and Gotenks is fodder to Super Boo. Adding Hirudegarn who one-shotted both into the mix just gives Boo the win.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

Everyone but Gohan and Gotenks is fodder to Super Boo. Adding Hirudegarn who one-shotted both into the mix just gives Boo the win.

Janemba is supposed to be even stronger than Hirudegarn.

[nickzambuto]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

Everyone but Gohan and Gotenks is fodder to Super Boo. Adding Hirudegarn who one-shotted both into the mix just gives Boo the win.

But SSJ3 Goku oneshotted Hirudegard

[DanielSSJ]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

Everyone but Gohan and Gotenks is fodder to Super Boo. Adding Hirudegarn who one-shotted both into the mix just gives Boo the win.

But SSJ3 Goku oneshotted Hirudegard

Yeah, Goku one-shotted Hirudegarn with a haxxed super move.

[RedShift]

I've never believed that the gap between SS3 Gotenks & SS3 Goku is nearly as large as people make it out to be... There just isn't much evidence for it besides vague comments about how strong Gotenks "should be". Ultimate Gohan is obviously another story.

Anyway, Super Buu with those cast of characters absorbed would be incredibly hard to stop. He has basically unlimited stamina & regeneration from Majin Buu, reality & matter manipulation from Janemba, has all of the primary casts skills & martial techniques (and more), and is both intelligent and extremely vicious... That's before you factor in the raw power of who & what he's absorbing.

The only way I see the group having a shot at winning is if ridiculous Buu has the same fatal flaw of endlessly playing with his food (Freeza) and wanting to test his powers. Meanwhile the cast is going to have to fight smart, all-at once, and pull out every trick in the book. Failing that they'll have to pull the Gogeta/Vegetto card.

[dragonball0900]

I've never believed that the gap between SS3 Gotenks & SS3 Goku is nearly as large as people make it out to be... There just isn't much evidence for it besides vague comments about how strong Gotenks "should be". Ultimate Gohan is obviously another story.

Well, when Goku and Vegeta were inside Buu, Goku didn't want to fight Buu at all. Even having Vegeta at his side, they wouldn't be a match for Super Buu at all, and Goku wanted to make the fusion again.

Also, Goku told Fat Buu that someone stronger than him would fight him, that means someone stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Obviously Goku was talking about the kids' fusion, not base, since we know how that fight went, but as SSJ it would be something different. That indicates that SSJ Gotenks pre-ROSAT could already be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, or probably equal.
After the training on the ROSAT, Gotenks would be much stronger, we know that SSJ3 multiplies the SSJ x8 times stronger, making SSJ3 Gotenks more than 8 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

To be fair, the power scale was ruined in Movie 13, and contradicts what happened in the Buu saga.

In the Buu Saga is: Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks >>>> SSJ3 Goku

In Movie 13 is: SSJ3 Goku > Hirudegarn (Second Form) >> SSJ3 Gotenks >> Hirudegarn (First form) >> Mystic Gohan

Unless maybe Goku was losing the battle and just got the upper hand with the Dragon Fist. Still, that doesn't explain how Gohan was weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks. Maybe TOEI wanted to make the SS3's the strongests of all?

[RedShift]

I've never believed that the gap between SS3 Gotenks & SS3 Goku is nearly as large as people make it out to be... There just isn't much evidence for it besides vague comments about how strong Gotenks "should be". Ultimate Gohan is obviously another story.

Well, when Goku and Vegeta were inside Buu, Goku didn't want to fight Buu at all. Even having Vegeta at his side, they wouldn't be a match for Super Buu at all, and Goku wanted to make the fusion again.

Also, Goku told Fat Buu that someone stronger than him would fight him, that means someone stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Obviously Goku was talking about the kids' fusion, not base, since we know how that fight went, but as SSJ it would be something different. That indicates that SSJ Gotenks pre-ROSAT could already be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, or probably equal.
After the training on the ROSAT, Gotenks would be much stronger, we know that SSJ3 multiplies the SSJ x8 times stronger, making SSJ3 Gotenks more than 8 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

To be fair, the power scale was ruined in Movie 13, and contradicted what happens in the Buu saga.

In the Buu Saga is: Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks >>>> SSJ3 Goku

In Movie 13 is: SSJ3 Goku > Hirudegarn (Second Form) >> SSJ3 Gotenks >> Hirudegarn (First form) >> Mystic Gohan

Unless maybe Goku was losing the battle and just got the upper hand with the Dragon Fist. Still, that doesn't explain how Gohan was weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks. Maybe TOEI wanted to make the SS3's the strongests of all?

I've read this reasoning over & over again on these board and oothers. I belive Goku was counting on the kids reaching SS3 after fusion anyways. That was part of the point behind him showing SS3 to them at the lookout. Gotenks is never shown to be THAT powerful at regular SS, we only have Goku's idea of what the fusion could be, before it actually even happens.

Besides, if SS3 Gotenks was eight times more powerful than SS3 Goku, he would have obliterated Super Buu. Super Buu is more or less Fat Buu x2. The Evil Buu absorbs the Fat Buu, an the absorbion techniques power boost is shown to be additive.

[dragonball0900]

I've read this reasoning over & over again on these board and oothers. I belive Goku was counting on the kids reaching SS3 after fusion anyways. That was part of the point behind him showing SS3 to them at the lookout. Gotenks is never shown to be THAT powerful at regular SS, we only have Goku's idea of what the fusion could be, before it actually even happens.

Besides, if SS3 Gotenks was eight times more powerful than SS3 Goku, he would have obliterated Super Buu. Super Buu is more or less Fat Buu x2. The Evil Buu absorbs the Fat Buu, an the absorbion techniques power boost is shown to be additive.

Goku didn't know the kids would transform into SSJ3, he didn't take that into account and was surprised when he first knew the kids were transformed as SSJ3.
It was never stated that Super Buu was 2 times stronger than Fat Buu, Super Buu was considered to Goku as being really strong that he wouldn't even dare to battle him, even with SSJ3.

[apex_pretador]

Backk in the Fusion-Arc days, Super Buu absorbs the following; Janemba, Hirudegarn, Dabura, Super P. Cell, and Freeza.

Redonkulous Buu faces SS3 Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Majin Vegeta, SS3 Goku, and Pikkon.

The group fights as a collective unit against Redonkulous Buu on the sacred world of the Kai's, with five sensu beans to use amongst them.
Can they kill Buu without resorting to Goku & Vegeta doing fusion?

That ridiculous buu or whatever you call it, would be pretty OP, perhaps enough to give gogeta or vegetto trouble. These kids don't stand a chance, even if you add buuhan to the good guys. Hirdy alone is above buuhan.

But SSJ3 Goku oneshotted Hirudegard

Yes, a way stronger version of goku, using a hax attack.

I've never believed that the gap between SS3 Gotenks & SS3 Goku is nearly as large as people make it out to be... There just isn't much evidence for it besides vague comments about how strong Gotenks "should be". Ultimate Gohan is obviously another story.

That is true. Goku individually is well below Super buu, and Gotenks is well above super boo, but besides that, it is not like "gotenks is 10 times or 100 times or 1000 times stronger than SS3 goku".
My power level list puts goku about half as strong as gotenks.