"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

I´ve read chapter 19 and .... what a way to undermine a villan, just to give fanservice to the Vegeta crown, now this is terrible fanservice, worst than anything from the "Future" Trunks arc in the anime combine.

It's pretty similar to how Black was portrayed in the anime before the end of Episode 56. What's the specific problem? It's pretty obvious he's going to become Rose early on in Chapter 20.

It's nothing like Episode 56. At least Vegeta knuckled down and trained hard to become stronger in the ROSAT to justify getting the upper hand on Black. Plus, Black had been kicking Vegeta ass in every encounter prior to that moment so it made everything about Vegeta beating him around feel more cathartic and satisfying. In the manga, Vegeta just turns SSJ2 and beats around Goku Black like a he's a little bitch. I fucking hate that. It just make Goku Black seem like he's a villain not even worth Vegeta's time and that should not be the case. Hell, the whole scenario of SSJ Goku Black getting hammered like he does in the manga by SSJ2 Vegeta doesn't even make any kind of sense from a power scaling standpoint. It's all pure fanservice for the Vegeta fanboys. There's no doubt about it.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Chapter 19-

This chapter looks like it was done to please Vegeta fanboys. And Black's character paid the price of that and got treated like a joke. The anime made it much better.
Black's character was handled flawless and SSB Vegeta beating SSR Black in their rematch was satisfying, because of how Vegeta got screwed in their first fight.

I know Toyotaro has to rush things and give a reason for Black and Immortal Zamasu to fuse, but... this was bad.

The Hakai scene was also subpar, because the anime had the advantage of putting a epic soundtrack playing on the background making the scene much better.

I only liked the fact Black proved he can turn SSJ. Herms confirmed this was on Toriyama's note. It's strange Toei didn't use it because Bandai would want to sell toys with it, but since Black's power is always rising and he would have a unique form, they probably thought it was unnecessary. I kinda agree, but I would still want it.

Toriyama already said Toei has the liberty to change some of his suggestions. Makes me wonder if they changed more things.

Just like the Champa arc, FT Trunks arc in the manga may just be forgettable too. Some interesting and bad changes and nothing memorable.

[Dbzfan94]

I´ve read chapter 19 and .... what a way to undermine a villan, just to give fanservice to the Vegeta crown, now this is terrible fanservice, worst than anything from the "Future" Trunks arc in the anime combine.

It's pretty similar to how Black was portrayed in the anime before the end of Episode 56. What's the specific problem? It's pretty obvious he's going to become Rose early on in Chapter 20.

It's nothing like Episode 56. At least Vegeta knuckled down and trained hard to become stronger in the ROSAT to justify getting the upper hand on Black. Plus, Black had been kicking Vegeta ass in every encounter prior to that moment so it made everything about Vegeta beating him around feel more cathartic and satisfying. In the manga, Vegeta just turns SSJ2 and beats around Goku Black like a he's a little bitch. I fucking hate that. It just make Goku Black seem like he's a villain not even worth Vegeta's time and that should not be the case. Hell, the whole scenario of SSJ Goku Black getting hammered like he does in the manga by SSJ2 Vegeta doesn't even make any kind of sense from a power scaling standpoint. It's all pure fanservice for the Vegeta fanboys. There's no doubt about it.

I totally agree here. People praise the manga but it has a lot of problems too.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Cause Black in the anime was... more powerful, too powerful tbh, his zenkai's kicks in the moment he gets beat up, while his manga ver seems to take a while before powerups kicks in.

I am talking specifically when Black got beating up by Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta after he trained for six months. Black wouldn't expect someone he just beat up just a day ago to suddenly come back and pushed his face into the dirt, yet he took his beating more calmly than Manga Black, who started yelling.

And he wasn't getting 'zenkai'. Those are specifically giving for near-death and recovering, not just from getting beating up.

Black sperging out is probably one of the funniest scenes in all of Dragon Ball.

Because it was at the expense of diminishing Goku Black as a villain........

A small price to pay to see the prince get what he deserves (before getting it back in the next chapter ).

What Vegeta deserves is to get shanked by Black.

There's literally no tension in the manga whatsoever. It's unbelievable how anyone thinks this is in any way better than the anime.

Vegeta got a new punching bag, how is that not good ?

Who honestly cares if that comes at the expense of the story? I know Vegeta is your favorite character but cmon, imagine if next arc Goku just beats everyone in the tournament without breaking a sweat. How boring would that be?

That would actually be pretty hilarious and entertaining, and also a decent twist. We go in expecting incredibly powerful opponents and they all get jobbed by Goku.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed that Toyotaro almost always whiffs it when it comes to arc ending battles? It's like his already mediocre skill gets cut in half whenever it's time to end an arc.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I´ve read chapter 19 and .... what a way to undermine a villan, just to give fanservice to the Vegeta crown, now this is terrible fanservice, worst than anything from the "Future" Trunks arc in the anime combine.

It's pretty similar to how Black was portrayed in the anime before the end of Episode 56. What's the specific problem? It's pretty obvious he's going to become Rose early on in Chapter 20.

It's nothing like Episode 56. At least Vegeta knuckled down and trained hard to become stronger in the ROSAT to justify getting the upper hand on Black. Plus, Black had been kicking Vegeta ass in every encounter prior to that moment so it made everything about Vegeta beating him around feel more cathartic and satisfying. In the manga, Vegeta just turns SSJ2 and beats around Goku Black like a he's a little bitch. I fucking hate that. It just make Goku Black seem like he's a villain not even worth Vegeta's time and that should not be the case. Hell, the whole scenario of SSJ Goku Black getting hammered like he does in the manga by SSJ2 Vegeta doesn't even make any kind of sense from a power scaling standpoint. It's all pure fanservice for the Vegeta fanboys. There's no doubt about it.

I didn't say it was like episode 56. Please read me before trying to respond, because I agree with the problems you're talking about. I said that Blacks portrayal was similar to his anime portrayal BEFORE episode 56, in that he came off as hopelessly underwhelming.

[Basako]

I'm not a Vegeta fan, I like him, but I way prefer Goku. But I like to see he has his moments too, and this chapter was totally for him. What a better thing than to have an enemy with Goku's body to kick him up and he really did, Toyo gets the characters very well. This was not a mistake, this was awesome, it had to be done! And Black is not weak, he is just weaker than Vegeta for now. But this is not finished, Black has 95% sure the SSR for next chapter and a 100% sure fusion with Zamasu at some point. Goku and Trunks have to fight too and I think we are going to see SSB Vegetto. What I don't know is how Toyotaro is gonna make Trunks relevant for this fight, I didn't like the anime thing, so we'll see what happens here.

[ekrolo2]

So, is there anything that implies that Vegeta can boost his SS2 with the whole Rageta thing from the BoG arc?

[Doctor.]

So, is there anything that implies that Vegeta can boost his SS2 with the whole Rageta thing from the BoG arc?

Considering that in Toyotaro's manga, the whole "Vegeta surpassed Goku!" thing was never stated by any of the characters, no, not really. It's just headcanon.

[Lord Beerus]

It's pretty similar to how Black was portrayed in the anime before the end of Episode 56. What's the specific problem? It's pretty obvious he's going to become Rose early on in Chapter 20.

It's nothing like Episode 56. At least Vegeta knuckled down and trained hard to become stronger in the ROSAT to justify getting the upper hand on Black. Plus, Black had been kicking Vegeta ass in every encounter prior to that moment so it made everything about Vegeta beating him around feel more cathartic and satisfying. In the manga, Vegeta just turns SSJ2 and beats around Goku Black like a he's a little bitch. I fucking hate that. It just make Goku Black seem like he's a villain not even worth Vegeta's time and that should not be the case. Hell, the whole scenario of SSJ Goku Black getting hammered like he does in the manga by SSJ2 Vegeta doesn't even make any kind of sense from a power scaling standpoint. It's all pure fanservice for the Vegeta fanboys. There's no doubt about it.

I didn't say it was like episode 56. Please read me before trying to respond, because I agree with the problems you're talking about. I said that Blacks portrayal was similar to his anime portrayal BEFORE episode 56, in that he came off as hopelessly underwhelming.

My apologies.

[Basako]

So, is there anything that implies that Vegeta can boost his SS2 with the whole Rageta thing from the BoG arc?

Yes, two things. One, the one you said, he got to hit Beerus, which is something Goku couldn't do in SS3. Two, this chapter, where his SS2 power level has been shown tremendously high.

[LightBing]

So, is there anything that implies that Vegeta can boost his SS2 with the whole Rageta thing from the BoG arc?

Not much. He didn't powered down after this supposed rage moment, which is common to show a boost was temporarily.
This is basically the same as SSJG, it isn't implied if Goku got the form permanently or not, so when we saw him use it the question was answered. I'm applying the same logic here.
I honestly doubt Toyotarõ would have such a blunder, when he goes out of his way to have a reasonable power scaling in all chapters. Even in this one, we have the characters throwing the usual power statements.

If there's more weird stuff, then we can start questioning Toyotarõ. Right now I think Vegeta maintaining his Mutated SSJ2 form is more reasonable than Toyotarõ making such a massive mistake.

[Pannaliciour]

The Zamasu appearance is more logic in the manga than anime. There was no reason for Zamasu to appear in the anime the first time in the future. Ssj rose was winning.

[Boo Machine]

The Zamasu appearance is more logic in the manga than anime. There was no reason for Zamasu to appear in the anime the first time in the future. Ssj rose was winning.

In the anime Zamasu shows up, not to help, but because he said he wanted to finish off Goku himself, if I remember correctly.

[Metrite]

So is the manga supposed to be getting ahead of the anime again soon? If so, the very next chapter will either have to be very long (like 60+ pages), or skip quite a lot of stuff making this feel like a super rushed mini arc.

And nowadays I think it is best to just not try to compare forms and power levels, lest you just give yourself a headache. lol From the very moment that Goku fought Freeza in his normal form, it should be clear that either there is no consistency, or the reason for that being possible can potentially be applied to every such situation.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The Zamasu appearance is more logic in the manga than anime. There was no reason for Zamasu to appear in the anime the first time in the future. Ssj rose was winning.

In the anime Zamasu shows up, not to help, but because he said he wanted to finish off Goku himself.

Which doesn't make any sense, since Future Zamasu shouldn't have given a damn about Goku, and he didn't after that point.

Although, to be fair, the fact that Trunks never met Zamasu before then in both manga and anime is nonsense. Was he cleaning the cabin for a whole year while Black did all of the actual extermination work? Also, why didn't we see Future Zamasu in a cute maid's outfit?

[Pannaliciour]

The Zamasu appearance is more logic in the manga than anime. There was no reason for Zamasu to appear in the anime the first time in the future. Ssj rose was winning.

In the anime Zamasu shows up, not to help, but because he said he wanted to finish off Goku himself.

Which doesn't make any sense, since Future Zamasu shouldn't have given a damn about Goku, and he didn't after that point.

Although, to be fair, the fact that Trunks never met Zamasu before then in both manga and anime is nonsense. Was he cleaning the cabin for a whole year while Black did all of the actual extermination work? Also, why didn't we see Future Zamasu in a cute maid's outfit?

Exactly!

[Basako]

So is the manga supposed to be getting ahead of the anime again soon? If so, the very next chapter will either have to be very long (like 60+ pages), or skip quite a lot of stuff making this feel like a super rushed mini arc.

And nowadays I think it is best to just not try to compare forms and power levels, lest you just give yourself a headache. lol From the very moment that Goku fought Freeza in his normal form, it should be clear that either there is no consistency, or the reason for that being possible can potentially be applied to every such situation.

The last official advertisement of the next arc has shown some manga panels about it, so it's already being done. The Zamasu arc may be already finished, although not published.

[Abra kadabra]

So, is there anything that implies that Vegeta can boost his SS2 with the whole Rageta thing from the BoG arc?

Yes, two things. One, the one you said, he got to hit Beerus, which is something Goku couldn't do in SS3. Two, this chapter, where his SS2 power level has been shown tremendously high.

[Araki]

Which doesn't make any sense, since Future Zamasu shouldn't have given a damn about Goku, and he didn't after that point.

Maybe you forgot they actually discussed it, one or two episodes later, and decided it wouldn't matter who finished him.

And i disagree that he shouldn't give a damn about Goku after presumably hearing everything from Black/present Zamasu, which is himself, after all - and if you think the reason Zamasu went after Goku in the manga is legit (he just saw a mortal using God ki through God tube), then you should be perfectly fine with future Zamasu hating Goku in the anime, too.

[Avok]

The fight choreography is ten times better in the manga, so there's that.