"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Ki Breaker]

So, is blaming Toriyama the cool thing to do now? Because I'm pretty sure none of us have access to his outline so we can't say how lazy he was with it or not. I'd imagine a lazy person wouldn't take that much time to write something like we know he did, and this was with him having doubts about continuing to be involved. We can also argue that he writes some dialogues so how barebones the outline is is anyone's guess.

Toriyama's "laziness" is so famous because of him personally saying him being lazy in many interviews..
People tend to take that at face value and do not see the emotion or meaning behind this..
He is not lazy at all, I believe it's his writing style of connecting dots together and not doing every little thing by himself which he refers to as lazy, that style is pretty much the most efficient style I know of

[Jinzoningen MULE]

So, is blaming Toriyama the cool thing to do now? Because I'm pretty sure none of us have access to his outline so we can't say how lazy he was with it or not. I'd imagine a lazy person wouldn't take that much time to write something like we know he did, and this was with him having doubts about continuing to be involved. We can also argue that he writes some dialogues so how barebones the outline is is anyone's guess.

It fair to blame Toriyama, he's notorious for not giving a damn. That's like, his defining personality trait. The exact opposite is true of Toyotaro, who tries (and admittedly, sometimes fails) to keep everything in order with the intent of the original work. The same is probably true of many of the anime script writers, although I'm not as familiar with them. If there's a plot point that's ill-thought out, say, Trunks only meeting Zamas a whole year after they began Earth's extermination, we know that's Toriyama without needing an outline. The idea that we should need the outline to identify Toriyama is ludicrous when there are two diametrically opposing versions of the same story. What if the sub-community that spends their time identifying animation styles were too hesitant to assign name to style just because we didn't have a video of them drawing it? That would be absurd, and it's almost the exact same thing here. We can identify who does what by their storytelling traits.

[alakazam^]

It fair to blame Toriyama, he's notorious for not giving a damn. That's like, his defining personality trait. The exact opposite is true of Toyotaro, who tries (and admittedly, sometimes fails) to keep everything in order with the intent of the original work. The same is probably true of many of the anime script writers, although I'm not as familiar with them. If there's a plot point that's ill-thought out, say, Trunks only meeting Zamas a whole year after they began Earth's extermination, we know that's Toriyama without needing an outline. The idea that we should need the outline to identify Toriyama is ludicrous when there are two diametrically opposing versions of the same story. What if the sub-community that spends their time identifying animation styles were too hesitant to assign name to style just because we didn't have a video of them drawing it? That would be absurd, and it's almost the exact same thing here. We can identify who does what by their storytelling traits.

It's fair to criticise everyone but it's been over a year since Super started and just now are people popping in to blame Toriyama? Yeah, I don't think it's innocent at all.

There's many shades to "not giving a damn" and we don't know which one current Toriyama is in. The closest we got is Toyotarou's interview where he described Toriyama's involvement a little bit and it's clear that some fans took it as meaning Toriyama doesn't care enough and just writes half-assed stuff to get them done with, which is extremely unfair and invalid since they can't be sure of it.

We don't know what Zamasu has been doing during that time so you can't say it's ill-thought out, it's just not addressed. If Toyotarou and Toei's staff care that much, unlike Toriyama, then why didn't they address this? Each changed stuff so they could easily "fix" it.

What is apparent to some people, isn't to others. Assign names all you want, that's what science does as well, but if someone comes by and asks for proof and you can't provide it, then it's fair to disregard your points.

[lord turbo]

So, is blaming Toriyama the cool thing to do now? Because I'm pretty sure none of us have access to his outline so we can't say how lazy he was with it or not. I'd imagine a lazy person wouldn't take that much time to write something like we know he did, and this was with him having doubts about continuing to be involved. We can also argue that he writes some dialogues so how barebones the outline is is anyone's guess.

Dialogue is easy enough to handle, but this outline is vague enough from point a to point b where both parties can make anything up in-between those two points to fill in the blanks when they shouldn't have too. I'm willing to bet he writes his script just as vague and barebone as he did the RoF script which probably explains why there are such considerable discrepancies between the manga and anime, it gets even harder when he tells these guys "Meh, change the story and throw in your own ideas as well, k brah?".

Super never said where it was placed in the timeline. Rough drafts for episode 1 and Oob mention in the Champa arc point to it being placed not long after Boo.

Simple math, the events of the 28th Budokai take place 10 years after the defeat of Buu, Pan is 4 years old during this time, meaning she was born 4 y meaning six years after the defeat of Kid Buu. Episode 1 state six months and some time later went by, the Tarble special takes place 2 years after Kid Buu, BoGs saga 4 years after Kid Buu, RoF 5-6 years after Kid Buu.

[Fionordequester]

Dialogue is easy enough to handle, but this outline is vague enough from point a to point b where both parties can make anything up in-between those two points to fill in the blanks when they shouldn't have too. I'm willing to bet he writes his script just as vague and barebone as he did the RoF script which probably explains why there are such considerable discrepancies between the manga and anime, it gets even harder when he tells these guys "Meh, change the story and throw in your own ideas as well, k brah?".

That's not necessarily a bad way of setting up a story. Some people THRIVE with that kind of open canvas; Toriyama himself wrote almost all of the manga by the seat of his pants. If Toyotaro or Toei want it different, it's their responsibility to ask, not Toriyama's responsibility to read their mind.

[Gig]

I have read chapter 19.

I liked it, and I'm curious to see how it continues.
[spoiler]I liked that they showed Goku Black actually getting hurt when hit hard, and him being healed by the other Zamasu. This would explain his Zenkai power works as the other saiyans (unlike anime's unexplained insta-auto-heal, insta-zenkai).

I'm curious to know how they will address the fact Black did not disappear after Beerus destroyed Zamasu in the main timeline, not being protected by the time ring as in the anime?
The fact the other Zamasu has got the time ring may suggest that in the manga, Goku Black is the one from Future Trunks timeline, and the other Zamasu is the one from the main timeline. BUT chapter 17 showed us that Black Goku arrived in FT timeline, after having tried other timelines! Then, who knows?

Goku Black, for now, is less cool than in the anime (the mystery around him did not last so long, and for the moment he clearly had the lower hand -of course now things are probably going to change, thanks to zenkai and teamwork-), but I find the whole thing enjoyable anyway.[/spoiler]

[Jinzoningen MULE]

When Goku Black said he was protected by the ring in the anime, I'm pretty sure he was just saying that since he already used it to get to the future, nothing could reverse it. As we know, history cannot be changed in Dragon Ball, Beerus even acknowledges this, so there's that explanation. Being a god has no effect on the flow of time, Beerus had just been talking out of his ass because he didn't get how time travel worked.

Given that, the manga rendition is still perfectly in line as far as time travel goes.

[HybridSaiyan]

The manga is a billions time better than the anime. Chapter 19 displayed how flippin' amazing the fighting use to be back in Z's days. Vegeta acting badass, using ssj2 too and Goku is shown to be more mature and understanding.

The Super anime is a pile of shit and needs to be re-done lol. Why in gods name can't this have been animated like Z straight after the Buu saga?? I love the manga version so much it pains my heart. T_T

[SansrivaaL]

Likewise for me I still prefer the manga over the anime. There's just tons of problems I have with the anime that its hard to enjoy it as much as I'm enjoying the manga.

[Ki Breaker]

Yup, manga is so much more better for enjoyment, I am just glad there is new Dragonball material to enjoy even if it's manga format..
Anime is enjoyable sure, but manga takes the cake

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Now if only we can get Toyotaro to have an SoL manga on the side. That's one area where Toyo's DBS is severely lacking right now.

[MisteryOne]

The manga is a billions time better than the anime. Chapter 19 displayed how flippin' amazing the fighting use to be back in Z's days. Vegeta acting badass, using ssj2 too and Goku is shown to be more mature and understanding.

The Super anime is a pile of shit and needs to be re-done lol. Why in gods name can't this have been animated like Z straight after the Buu saga?? I love the manga version so much it pains my heart. T_T

While I would love to see the manga animated in a OVA format, Toei definetly doesn't care about that, and they already have a lot of problems with the anime itself.

[Chelentano]

Now if only we can get Toyotaro to have an SoL manga on the side. That's one area where Toyo's DBS is severely lacking right now.

What do you mean with SoL?

[GodKaio-Ken]

So, is blaming Toriyama the cool thing to do now? Because I'm pretty sure none of us have access to his outline so we can't say how lazy he was with it or not. I'd imagine a lazy person wouldn't take that much time to write something like we know he did, and this was with him having doubts about continuing to be involved. We can also argue that he writes some dialogues so how barebones the outline is is anyone's guess.

Toriyama's "laziness" is so famous because of him personally saying him being lazy in many interviews..
People tend to take that at face value and do not see the emotion or meaning behind this..
He is not lazy at all, I believe it's his writing style of connecting dots together and not doing every little thing by himself which he refers to as lazy, that style is pretty much the most efficient style I know of

He used to play with model toys all week and do his work last second by his own admission. That is not very efficient.

[Fionordequester]

What do you mean with SoL?

I'm guessing "Slice of Life".

[Jinzoningen MULE]

What do you mean with SoL?

SoL is the usual abbreviation for slice of life. Sorry, I assumed that everyone was already familiar with it.

[Chelentano]

What do you mean with SoL?

I'm guessing "Slice of Life".

What do you mean with SoL?

SoL is the usual abbreviation for slice of life. Sorry, I assumed that everyone was already familiar with it.

I see, thank you both. And don't worry, it's my fault. English it's not my language and while I know enough vocabulary sometimes I get lost with the acronyms.

[Hugo Boss]

After reading the part where Vegeta Blue talks about how Black can't use Goku's power to its fullest, I thought it made much more sense than when Vegeta was beating Black Rosé. It's weird because in the anime Black gives the impression he is better than Goku most of the times. In the manga he is not that impressive yet.

[dbzfan7]

After reading the part where Vegeta Blue talks about how Black can't use Goku's power to its fullest, I thought it made much more sense than when Vegeta was beating Black Rosé. It's weird because in the anime Black gives the impression he is better than Goku most of the times. In the manga he is not that impressive yet.

Agreed. That comment didn't make much sense in the anime, but here it makes total sense.

[Araki]

Of course that made sense in the anime. Vegeta meant Black couldn't reach the limits Goku can, with that body. After some training, Vegeta surpassed him, after all, when doing the same to Goku is much more difficult.

The thing is, some people want to believe the manga makes more sense, even when it doesn't, like the ridiculous reasoning for Zamasu to go after Goku. SS Vegeta beating Black this easily is very wrong already and pure Vegeta fanservice.