They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

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MisteryOne
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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by MisteryOne » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:23 am

SansrivaaL wrote:Its simply Toei being obsessed with Black, you can tell with how they handled him, everytime he got his ass handed to him by Goku,Vegeta,Trunks, he brushes it off or laughs at it then instantly gains the upper hand again, there is literally no part where Black looked like a joke (besides the bastards weird chuuni speeches) and another is almost ALL of Black's shot looked good, Merged Zamasu payed with him becoming the joke despite of him being stronger.
Agreed. While that was what made Black so badass and amazing, it was aldo what ended making Merged Zamasu a dissapointment. Black should have at least freaked out one time before fusing and Merged Zamasu should had share some traits with him.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:39 am

SansrivaaL wrote:Its simply Toei being obsessed with Black, you can tell with how they handled him, everytime he got his ass handed to him by Goku,Vegeta,Trunks, he brushes it off or laughs at it then instantly gains the upper hand again, there is literally no part where Black looked like a joke (besides the bastards weird chuuni speeches) and another is almost ALL of Black's shot looked good, Merged Zamasu payed with him becoming the joke despite of him being stronger.
You mean the joke who successfully wiped out the future multiverse. Yeah, that was a really funny.

As for Black never suffering a freak out, it's probably because that version of Zamasu was more like Goku, who has never freaked out when he hits a wall. Goku when faced with a powerful opponent may become stunned or even upset, but in the end he calmly looks over his options and finds a work around. The manga chose to make Black more like his true self, Zamasu, while the anime gave him more of Goku's personality besides his battle lust.
Last edited by HeroR on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:43 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:Its simply Toei being obsessed with Black, you can tell with how they handled him, everytime he got his ass handed to him by Goku,Vegeta,Trunks, he brushes it off or laughs at it then instantly gains the upper hand again, there is literally no part where Black looked like a joke (besides the bastards weird chuuni speeches) and another is almost ALL of Black's shot looked good, Merged Zamasu payed with him becoming the joke despite of him being stronger.
You mean the joke who successfully wiped out the future multiverse. Yeah, that was a really funny.
You mean Zeno? yeah really funny.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:46 am

SansrivaaL wrote:
You mean Zeno? yeah really funny.
Merged Zamasu killed every mortal in the multiverse and was spreading to other timelines. Goku could do nothing but call Future Zen'o who basically gave that timeline a mercy kill. So despite Merged Zamasu being 'a joke' he was the joke that successful got what he wanted to the point of needing the most powerful character in that setting stop him.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:56 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:
You mean Zeno? yeah really funny.
Merged Zamasu killed every mortal in the multiverse and was spreading to other timelines. Goku could do nothing but call Future Zen'o who basically gave that timeline a mercy kill. So despite Merged Zamasu being 'a joke' he was the joke that successful got what he wanted to the point of needing the most powerful character in that setting stop him.
Wait, multiverse? or do you mean every mortal thats left on earth?

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:58 am

SansrivaaL wrote:
Wait, multiverse? or do you mean every mortal thats left on earth?
It's heavily implied that entire multiverse was infested by Merged Zamasu, which is why Zen'o wiped everything out instead of just destroying the Earth. We only saw Merged Zamasu kill everyone on Earth instead of universal destruction.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:02 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:
Wait, multiverse? or do you mean every mortal thats left on earth?
It's heavily implied that entire multiverse was infested by Merged Zamasu, which is why Zen'o wiped everything out instead of just destroying the Earth. We only saw Merged Zamasu kill everyone on Earth instead of universal destruction.
Heavily implied? based from what? Zeno gets pissed quite easily, its 2 guards were being loud and instantly threatened to destroy them, Beerus also stated that pissing off Zeno could not only destroy their universe but others as well, Zeno wiped everything out because Zamasu pissed him, we're not even sure if Zeno destroyed the whole multiverse or just U7, all he said was "kono sekai" which literally means "this world".

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:09 am

SansrivaaL wrote: Heavily implied? based from what? Zeno gets pissed quite easily, its 2 guards were being loud and instantly threatened to destroy them, Beerus also stated that pissing off Zeno could not only destroy their universe but others as well, Zeno wiped everything out because Zamasu pissed him, we're not even sure if Zeno destroyed the whole multiverse or just U7, all he said was "kono sekai" which literally means "this world".
Gawasu said that Zamasu was trying to merged with the universe and we see Zamasu's essence spreading across space and even time. Merged Zamasu clearly didn't just effect the Earth.

We also know Zen'o destroyed the multiverse, otherwise why would he stay in the present timeline and even have his own throne with Present Zen'o if he had his own domain to rule in the future timeline.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:14 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote: Heavily implied? based from what? Zeno gets pissed quite easily, its 2 guards were being loud and instantly threatened to destroy them, Beerus also stated that pissing off Zeno could not only destroy their universe but others as well, Zeno wiped everything out because Zamasu pissed him, we're not even sure if Zeno destroyed the whole multiverse or just U7, all he said was "kono sekai" which literally means "this world".
Gawasu said that Zamasu was trying to merged with the universe and we see Zamasu's essence spreading across space and even time. Merged Zamasu clearly didn't just effect the Earth.

We also know Zen'o destroyed the multiverse, otherwise why would he stay in the present timeline and even have his own throne with Present Zen'o if he had his own domain to rule in the future timeline.
Merging with the universe yes but not the multiverse, also merging with it doesn't necessarily mean he killed others since Black already killed almost every mortal in their universe besides earthlings.

Just because he went with Goku doesnt mean he destroyed the whole multiverse, there's still no guarantee for that, it could be that he's just bored, tho I am clinging more into that Zeno destroyed the multiverse but without actual info that he did that then at the end of the day its all hypothesis.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:20 am

SansrivaaL wrote:
Merging with the universe yes but not the multiverse, also merging with it doesn't necessarily mean he killed others since Black already killed almost every mortal in their universe besides earthlings.

Just because he went with Goku doesnt mean he destroyed the whole multiverse, there's still no guarantee for that, it could be that he's just bored, tho I am clinging more into that Zeno destroyed the multiverse but without actual info that he did that then at the end of the day its all hypothesis.
Given what Merged Zamasu did to the Earth, why wouldn't the same destruction be universal-wise. Also, it was never said that Black killed all the mortals in their universe or any universe. The only thing they said was that they killed countless species with the Earth being their latest stop.

He didn't just went with Goku, he now lives in the present timeline with Present Zen'o and has his own throne. If there was something for him to rule, even one universe, do you really think he would just be chilling in the past? And why would he just hang in empty space if he had a place to return to before Goku got him? And do you think Goku would take Zen'o form his multiverse if there was anything left? Do the show really need to spell it out?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:27 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:
Merging with the universe yes but not the multiverse, also merging with it doesn't necessarily mean he killed others since Black already killed almost every mortal in their universe besides earthlings.

Just because he went with Goku doesnt mean he destroyed the whole multiverse, there's still no guarantee for that, it could be that he's just bored, tho I am clinging more into that Zeno destroyed the multiverse but without actual info that he did that then at the end of the day its all hypothesis.
Given what Merged Zamasu did to the Earth, why wouldn't the same destruction be universal-wise. Also, it was never said that Black killed all the mortals in their universe or any universe. The only thing they said was that they killed countless species with the Earth being their latest stop.

He didn't just went with Goku, he now lives in the present timeline with Present Zen'o and has his own throne. If there was something for him to rule, even one universe, do you really think he would just be chilling in the past? And why would he just hang in empty space if he had a place to return to before Goku got him? And do you think Goku would take Zen'o form his multiverse if there was anything left? Do the show really need to spell it out?
Because no indication was shown that it would be the case, Wasnt it obvious? why would they leave mortals on a planet that they already started killing from? that would be weird considering Zamasu and Black were obsessed with making the multiverse/universe mortal free.

Do you really see Zeno as someone that would prioritize ruling over entertainment? this is the same guy that once pissed, destroys universe.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by HeroR » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:34 am

SansrivaaL wrote: Because no indication was shown that it would be the case, Wasnt it obvious? why would they leave mortals on a planet that they already started killing from? that would be weird considering Zamasu and Black were obsessed with making the multiverse/universe mortal free.

Do you really see Zeno as someone that would prioritize ruling over entertainment? this is the same guy that once pissed, destroys universe.
I never said that they left mortals alive on a planet. Only that they never indicated that they wiped out all life in Universe 7 or any other universe. And, just using math, it's highly unlikely that they wiped out all life in any universe given that the Supreme Kai was still alive when Trunks beat Dabura, which was at best just a couple years ago. Jaco said that the universe is big, so even if they Black and Future Zamasu rushed before arriving on Earth, it's unlikely that the killed everyone mortal in U7 or even U10.

Do you really see Goku taking the ruler of the multiverse from his realm if there was an universe or two left for him to rule?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: They screwed up the Future Trunks Saga

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:54 pm

Cetra wrote:
HeroR wrote: That was Future Zamasu who insisted they fused since they could be defeated. Black agreed after seeing how freaked out Future Zamasu was.

Finally, Black was the one who started the plot, recruited his own future self, and was the driving behind everyone. He was the primary villain since there would be no plot without Black since Future Zamasu would have gone on to serve Gawasu while still harboring his hatred for mortals but not acting on it.
Alt. Zamasu was the one who insisted but Black just as much as him realized they could no longer underestimate them or they would be beaten. You have even confirmed to know that with you saying Black realized. Also it is not like Black was never overwhelmed from some massive beat-down himself.

Also, just as you have already proven to understand what a boostrap is, there is no actual "Black being the primary one with him starting the plot". It is a cycle without beginning and end. Of course Trunks escaped from him. But every element was always included. The main villain is "Zamasu" in all incarnations.
I didnt get the impression Black wanted to fuse at all. He actually seemed pissed at Future Zamasu for being so afraid. To me his reaction was more "Fine....whatever lets just finish this".
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