My Attempt at the Transformations

[TheUltimateNinja]

I suggest looking at my more recent one. What do you think of that graphic. I replied to Captain Strawberry with it.

Grade 4 shouldn't be ahead of Grades 2 and 3, in terms of multiplier it's the same as a normal SSJ.

You should probably call the SSJ Goku used against Beerus something else, SSGSS would cause confusion with SSBlue.

Trunks' form as well. Super Saiyan Blue Super Saiyan sounds like the next level beyond SSBlue, ie A Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan Blue.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I suggest looking at my more recent one. What do you think of that graphic. I replied to Captain Strawberry with it.

Grade 4 shouldn't be ahead of Grades 2 and 3, in terms of multiplier it's the same as a normal SSJ.

You should probably call the SSJ Goku used against Beerus something else, SSGSS would cause confusion with SSBlue.

Trunks' form as well. Super Saiyan Blue Super Saiyan sounds like the next level beyond SSBlue, ie A Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan Blue.

I didn't know what else to call the SS vs. Beerus, and it IS a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, just Mortal Ki. The name does describe the form. SSB should be a different form, so why not use both names?

I don't know what else to call Super Trunks. He is at SSB level, and is in a Super Saiyan form. What name would you call it?

I put the Grade 4 further on since it is more powerful BECAUSE of no drawback.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I suggest looking at my more recent one. What do you think of that graphic. I replied to Captain Strawberry with it.

Grade 4 shouldn't be ahead of Grades 2 and 3, in terms of multiplier it's the same as a normal SSJ.

You should probably call the SSJ Goku used against Beerus something else, SSGSS would cause confusion with SSBlue.

Trunks' form as well. Super Saiyan Blue Super Saiyan sounds like the next level beyond SSBlue, ie A Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan Blue.

I didn't know what else to call the SS vs. Beerus, and it IS a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, just Mortal Ki. The name does describe the form. SSB should be a different form, so why not use both names.

I don't know what else to call Super Trunks. He is at SSB level, and is in a Super Saiyan form.

I put the Grade 4 further on since it is more powerful BECAUSE of no drawback.

You could call it Godly Super Saiyan or something like that.

Super Trunks has far more options, Super Saiyan Gold With Tinges of Blue, I Can't Believe It's Not Blue, Semi-Super Saiyan Blue etc.

[ChiefWamsutta]

You could call it Godly Super Saiyan or something like that.

Super Trunks has far more options, Super Saiyan Gold With Tinges of Blue, I Can't Believe It's Not Blue, Semi-Super Saiyan Blue etc.

Yeah, that Godly Super Saiyan is not that bad. Hmmmm.

Haha, if you were to pick a serious name for it, which would you do?

[TheUltimateNinja]

You could call it Godly Super Saiyan or something like that.

Super Trunks has far more options, Super Saiyan Gold With Tinges of Blue, I Can't Believe It's Not Blue, Semi-Super Saiyan Blue etc.

Yeah, that Godly Super Saiyan is not that bad. Hmmmm.

Haha, if you were to pick a serious name for it, which would you do?

False Super Saiyan Blue seems like the best option.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Yeah, that Godly Super Saiyan is not that bad. Hmmmm.

Haha, if you were to pick a serious name for it, which would you do?

False Super Saiyan Blue seems like the best option.

I might keep my names as a headcanon until names are chosen. I like having SS in the names.

[Almighty Majin]

What about Future Trunks' improved SSJ2 in the DBS manga that was able to match SSJ3? I think that should branch off SSJ2 somewhere. I also think that the Furious Mutation SSJ2 was more of an improvement to SSJ2 rather than a separate transformation. It could have been Vegeta's untapped potential however.

The regular SSJ post SSJG should probably be named Super Saiyan Beyond God and the SSJ2 and SSJ3 variations should be added as well.

[ChiefWamsutta]

What about Future Trunks' improved SSJ2 in the DBS manga that was able to match SSJ3? I think that should branch off SSJ2 somewhere. I also think that the Furious Mutation SSJ2 was more of an improvement to SSJ2 rather than a separate transformation. It could have been Vegeta's untapped potential however.

The regular SSJ post SSJG should probably be named Super Saiyan Beyond God and the SSJ2 and SSJ3 variations should be added as well.

I didn't put the Super Saiyan Beyond God, since I am still not sure if we are dealing with a Goku whose forms are that powerful. It is still hard for me to believe that would be a form.

Hmmmm, I saw the Trunks' SS2 that equals SS3 as just his training harder. I also made the first graphic without looking more into it. Please feel free to comment on my updated version of the graphic here:

[Dbzfan94]

Where's SSJ4 though

[Doctor.]

Where's SSJ4 though

In the grave where it belongs.

[Desassina]

I deleted the previous image and will post a new one with a new transformation. Only the sparks are missing and the promise of the grades. They will arrive sooner or later.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Dbzfan94]

Where's SSJ4 though

In the grave where it belongs.

I whole heartedly disagree

[ChiefWamsutta]

Where's SSJ4 though

In the grave where it belongs.

I whole heartedly disagree

Can we address how annoying the Super Saiyan Rage name is? Ugh.

You could call it Godly Super Saiyan or something like that.

Super Trunks has far more options, Super Saiyan Gold With Tinges of Blue, I Can't Believe It's Not Blue, Semi-Super Saiyan Blue etc.

Yeah, that Godly Super Saiyan is not that bad. Hmmmm.

Haha, if you were to pick a serious name for it, which would you do?

False Super Saiyan Blue seems like the best option.

I love how we were talking about the name for Super Trunks last night, and today we have the name Super Saiyan Rage.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Yeah, that Godly Super Saiyan is not that bad. Hmmmm.

Haha, if you were to pick a serious name for it, which would you do?

False Super Saiyan Blue seems like the best option.

I love how we were talking about the name for Super Trunks last night, and today we have the name Super Saiyan Rage.

It sucks really badly, I can't believe they chose that of all names.

[Dbzfan94]

Super Saiyan Rage was actually my name for a mutated / deranged SSJ2 Goten in my story but guess I gotta change it now lol

[ChiefWamsutta]

False Super Saiyan Blue seems like the best option.

I love how we were talking about the name for Super Trunks last night, and today we have the name Super Saiyan Rage.

It sucks really badly, I can't believe they chose that of all names.

It doesn't EVEN explain the form at all!!

[DanielSSJ]

Yeah, that Godly Super Saiyan is not that bad. Hmmmm.

Haha, if you were to pick a serious name for it, which would you do?

While I can't claim this idea for my own, (in fact it came from Cipher from this thread here) but I am partial to シン・超サイヤ人 or Shin Super Saiyan, with シン/Shin being an ambiguous reference to "new" (the newest Super Saiyan form) and "god" (another form that utilizes God ki) without the Kanji present.

[Saturnine]

I don't think what you call "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" pictured in yellow deserves a spot in this chart. I assume you're referring to the regular Super Saiyan form with "Super Saiyan God's crimson flame" that Goku fought Beerus in.

That is just a transitional state due to unmastered God ki, straight after dropping out of SSj God. Goku as a SSj here isn't really stronger than he would be in base. I suggest replacing this with Saiyan Beyond God, which incidentally happens to fit perfectly in that very spot.

Also, I do believe Grade 4 is stronger than Grade 3, like your chart suggests. Or at least than Grade 2, due to how the aura looks when powering up (almost identically) and due to the fact that Grade 2 was never used during the Cell Games, even though it would have provided Goku an advantage. The difference between say, FP Goku and Grade 3 Trunks couldn't just be entirely explained by more efficient training due to how huge it was. Trunks was only a little bit stronger in Grade 3 than SSj Goku at standby, when Goku powered up the gap widened unbelievably (though by that point SSj Trunks and Vegeta were after their second training, which brought them to around 70% Goku as regular Super Saiyans)

Since Grade 4 lets you power up or down, I like to see it as an equivalent to Grade 2 but with the body conditioned, the muscles don't swell. A nice analogy would be more recent Freeza's mastery of his body, which lets him to 100% without previously seen drawbacks. I don't think this whole "increased stamina" in and of itself would be played up so much in DBZ if there was no measurable benefit in power.

[Saturnine]

You've inspired me to try my own version!

I decided to go for a 2-axis approach to help denote power and speed proportions. Of course in most cases they're the same, but the power-stressed forms have distorted proportions between power and speed. Also, the Oozaru was only said to "not make them any slower" rather than "make them faster", so I had it at equal speed as the base Saiyan.

I was a bit torn on the whole "SSj2 Mutation" thing, but I guess it's a permanent powerup. Also, the connection between it and SSj Rage is purely speculative, I'm really not sure if there's any. We've got too little info. Anyway, here it is.

This is according to the original manga and Super anime. I'm not following the Super manga, because Toyotaro's decisions often contradict the anime. This chart is "two-base theory" compatible. And of course it only shows who's stronger and faster than who, but not by how much. The scaling in that case would have to be pretty insane

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[ChiefWamsutta]

You've inspired me to try my own version!

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Cool graphic! In my points, I'm going by the 42 Volume Manga and DBSuper anime.

I think your idea is a good one!! I personally didn't feel the need to add in a 'Speed Axis' since, as you put, only Great Ape and Grade 3 are different from their power.

You might as well put in SSRose since it is a Super Saiyan form, and it is basically SSBlue for Goku Black (since Base Goku Black is simply Saiyan Beyond God Goku Black).

I don't think Super Saiyan Rage is stronger than SSB. I put them on the same level. Additionally, part of me now feels that SS2 Mutation is not a form since even DBHeroes don't have it as a card. They seem to have every form, even SS4 Full-Power, haha. If we were considering the DBSuper Manga, we could add SS2 Mutation. It also doesn't seem to come up again, and the only real evidence we have that it is a mutation is the title card.

The Super Saiyan with the Crimson Flame can't be ignored as a form though. You can't really replace it with Saiyan Beyond God because that is not what happened. Goku loses God Ki, but retains the power level of Super Saiyan God. That's why he states in Episode 13 around minute 19 that he doesn't feel any weaker. A SSGSS is defined as a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God. After training with Whis, Goku and Vegeta unlock God Ki and one could say that they implement it to their SS with Crimson Flame.

I do see what you are saying that after absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God, all his forms would be equal, but we don't have evidence that happens. We know Goku's Super Saiyan form retains the power of SSG. Goku and Vegeta's Base form got to the level it was at vs. RoF Frieza because of training with Whis only in their Base forms. Toriyama said they would focus on their Base and SS forms, which implies SS2 and SS3 are pre-BoG. I'm starting to see SSB as perfect mastery of the Super Saiyan form and God Ki results from it.