Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Noah]

I was thinking... If by hypothesis we got the next month a hiatus for Super, would that be effective in terms of animation or nothing would change much by it?

[ArchedThunder]

I was thinking... If by hypothesis we got the next month a hiatus for Super, would that be effective in terms of animation or nothing would change much by it?

The only way Super would ever go on a one month hiatus would be if the Super staff and Toei convinced all parties involved that it would be a good thing for business to improve the show, so unlike how some people say Toei would just move their people onto other shows they would most likely actually take those 4 or 5 weeks to improve the production.
Super's almost definitely never going to take a hiatus though, lengthy amounts of filler like we're currently getting is the closest we'll get. Depending on what they've been doing behind the scenes the 10 weeks of filler might end up being as good or nearly as good as a 4 or 5 week hiatus and without the downside of the loss of sponsor money.

[dbs fanboy]

As far as we know, Super episodes tend to be animated in 6-10 weeks, but I'm willing to bet that the episodes made on the lower end of that scale has more to do with Super's ability to get staff than anything. I'd like to hear some people's input on what I'm thinking the possible outcomes of the 10 weeks of filler will be.

Absolute best case (and very unlikely) scenario of this 10 weeks of filler is bringing the production to the point were some episodes could have upwards of 20 weeks for animation, similar to Pokemon, but again that is absolute best case scenario and is VERY unlikely. In the unlikely event that this is what happens it would be much easier for Super to get staff, especially if Hatano Morio is still on the show. Nobody should expect this large of an improvement, this is pie the the sky stuff, but not necessarily completely impossible.

Middle of the road scenario, which I think is relatively likely would be this improving the schedule by about 5 weeks, giving Super upwards of 15-ish weeks for some episodes. I base this on there being 5 weeks between Champa and Trunks, where as we are getting 10 weeks here, giving us an extra 5 weeks between arcs (not exactly the most scientific conclusion since production isn't a straight line). With this episodes would probably be made in 10-15 weeks, with regular episodes on the lower end and that being a pretty average turn around time for an anime episode, and the large episodes being on the upper end and that being an above average turn around(and pretty in line with its piers). This outcome would also greatly improve Super's ability to grab staff, not as well as the absolute best case scenario obviously, but it would still make the show much more attractive to work on. While I think this outcome is fairly likely I also don't think anyone should expect this one either, I'd say there is still a sizable chance this is not the outcome so to avoid disappointment it'd probably be better to hope for this, but expect worse.

Lower end scenario, the production is improved by 2-3 weeks, with episodes typically being made in 8-12 weeks, potentially 13 for a giant episode. This would make Super's production only average, but still far more workable than previously and would make it easier to grab staff, but not nearly as easily as the middle of the road scenario. While 8-12 weeks would only be a small improvement it would still have a large effect on Super and would likely be enough for the majority of episodes to be supervised by one person. I'm not really basing this off of anything, but I would say that this and the middle of the road scenario probably have similar chances of being the outcome, but to avoid disappointment I think this should be the expectation.

Almost worst case scenario, no improvements are made to the production and the quality of the arc will be pretty much identical to the Trunks arc. I see this as being more likely than the absolute best case scenario, but much less likely than the middle and lower end scenarios, but still likely enough that we should be prepared for it.

Absolute worst case holy shit everything is on fire scenario, the quality of these filler episodes is what we will get for the next arc. I'd like to think this scenario is about as likely as the best case scenario.

TLDR; I think expecting as little as 2 weeks of improvement to the schedule, hoping for upwards of 5, and being prepared for no improvements is the most logical way to look at the effect of 10 weeks of filler.

Thoughts?

I really agree with this. But hey if for some unexpected reason magic exist we might get lucky,

[Alee9977]

Wow, just by one filler episode everybody gets crazy lol, it's not like this is the first time Tate works on the show so we all know him, and I don't understand why everybody is losing their minds, we all know how Tate's episode are and this was something more than expected, he even surprised me, I was expecting more rough art than what we had in the episode. In fact, Karasawa was the one who dissapointed me, I was expecting more from him, but maybe it's because he didn't do any scene in the episode and he only made corrections. I'm glad if that's the case, with these filler episodes we can see they are saving staff for the next arc, even the AS aren't doing lot of things, Tate only did a few scenes when he usually makes half of the episode.
Also, I'm pretty sure they have been working on the next arc for a while now, at least with the script, KIng Ryu and Yoshitaka Toshio had been abscent in the last arc so maybe that gives us an idea, and in this episodes they aren't doing great things in terms of animation, just average episodes with a low staff. I mean, there are animators that never worked in DBS before popping up in these episodes (Kusama Hideoki, Yagi Genki, Tomita Erisa and Wakana Yoshinori for example although some of then worked on Super but only on 2-3 episodes), we even had Yashima's best episode lol.
Maybe for the next arc AS may have 8-10 weeks like in One Piece and that will be awesome.
Also, if animators like Shida or Otsuka Ken alredy know they will work again in Super maybe it's a sign that they have a pre-production for Super...

[JazzMazz]

Here are my personal highlights from the episode:
Futoshi Highashide
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
Naoki Tate
[spoiler]

(From 0:32 onwards)[/spoiler]
Honestly slightly prefer the second scene, even though it is very rough and even a little jarring at times, I just think it has a lot more meat to it the really cool rotations of Highashide's scene.

Also Ajay, just wanted to confirm are you adding any of this to the noteable cuts section? I personally don't believe anything besides the two cuts I've mentioned are really all that good.
EDIT: Besides maybe the Vados character acting, that was okay.

[dhaval_dongre]

Also, if animators like Shida or Otsuka Ken alredy know they will work again in Super maybe it's a sign that they have a pre-production for Super...

That's a good point.

[Shreyas_Singh]

Am I the only one who thinks that Toei shot itself in the foot by having action heavy "fillers" and a tournament arc instead of more dialogue driven scenes and episodes? Really seems unnecessary when you can barely afford patch together a single fight scene . Also,could someone please educate me on exactly what basis do 'key animators' charge their money from the studio ? If its based on amount and quality of drawings then they should probably decrease the total drawings per episode, wouldn't that help them a lot? Sorry I've got too many questions I'm still learning about this stuff.

[Gashif Aldi]

I was thinking... If by hypothesis we got the next month a hiatus for Super, would that be effective in terms of animation or nothing would change much by it?

The only way Super would ever go on a one month hiatus would be if the Super staff and Toei convinced all parties involved that it would be a good thing for business to improve the show, so unlike how some people say Toei would just move their people onto other shows they would most likely actually take those 4 or 5 weeks to improve the production.
Super's almost definitely never going to take a hiatus though, lengthy amounts of filler like we're currently getting is the closest we'll get. Depending on what they've been doing behind the scenes the 10 weeks of filler might end up being as good or nearly as good as a 4 or 5 week hiatus and without the downside of the loss of sponsor money.

Is it possible if they grab staff when the Future Trunks arc ended? Giving them more than 15 weeks (So it's gonna be episode 80-ish). Maybe TOEI is grabbing a bunch of staff at the end of Future Trunks arc, then we'll see them in episode 80-ish?
I mean we're getting 11 weeks of fillers, who knows Hatano Morio is grabbing a bunch of them for the next arc.

[dhaval_dongre]

Am I the only one who thinks that Toei shot itself in the foot by having action heavy "fillers" and a tournament arc instead of more dialogue driven scenes and episodes.

Lol, no. We have had only one action filler episode(this week's) and its the only one. All previous episodes including this one have been very conservative on purpose. 68 was done by Wanpack, 69 had small contributions from multiple animators and 70 was a solo Yashima episode. All episodes till the next arc are going to be SoL filler. And this time around Toei did plan it out well to a certain degree. Also adding a semi-serious 2 episode mini arc in between a series of filler episodes was a good idea. The past couple of episodes gave us a preview about Hit and what's going on in U6. So they served the purpose of being filler episodes despite not being total filler.

[JazzMazz]

Am I the only one who thinks that Toei shot itself in the foot by having action heavy "fillers" and a tournament arc instead of more dialogue driven scenes and episodes? Really seems unnecessary when you can barely afford patch together a single fight scene . Also,could someone please educate me on exactly what basis do 'key animators' charge their money from the studio ? If its based on amount and quality of drawings then they should probably decrease the total drawings per episode, wouldn't that help them a lot? Sorry I've got too many questions I'm still learning about this stuff.

I don't think Toei have been having as many action orientated episodes of late, but there is a high possibility that there is going to be some sort of action sequence in every episode. This was a problem with the Future Trunks arc as well, where nearly every episode would have some form of action sequence even if it was completely unnecessary.

---

On a side note, does anyone have any idea who did this work from #49.
I know a lot of it is weirdly drawn due to everything being extremely angular(espicially Trunks), but I really enjoyed a lot of the personality that was given to the movement in this fight scene, even if it was a little choppy and had very simple timing.
[spoiler]

^Really enjoyed Trunks' characters acting here, even though it was simple.

^Really liked the timing, storyboarding and effects animation here as well.[/spoiler]

[Saikyo no Senshi]

. Also,could someone please educate me on exactly what basis do 'key animators' charge their money from the studio ? If its based on amount and quality of drawings then they should probably decrease the total drawings per episode, wouldn't that help them a lot? Sorry I've got too many questions I'm still learning about this stuff.

Key animators are paid per cut or shot. No matter how lengthy or complex the cut is they are paid the same as far as I know. A newbie key animator makes 4000¥ a cut. In-betweeners are paid per drawing. They make 300¥ a drawing.

[Ajay]

On a side note, does anyone have any idea who did this work from #49.
I know a lot of it is weirdly drawn due to everything being extremely angular(espicially Trunks), but I really enjoyed a lot of the personality that was given to the movement in this fight scene, even if it was a little choppy and had very simple timing.
[spoiler]

^Really enjoyed Trunks' characters acting here, even though it was simple.

^Really liked the timing, storyboarding and effects animation here as well.[/spoiler]

That was Kenji Kuroyanagi. Usually associated with One Piece and PreCure, but he's now on Tiger Mask W.

[perucho1990]

Super will never have a decent schedule. It has been said many times already, but I'll say it again the lack of pre-production hurt it so bad that it still hasn't recovered and I highly doubt it ever will. Hell, Super doesn't even have a series composer and there's 3 series directors already. That's a clear sign of how fucked up the series is.

Super just came out of nowhere. Thanks to the inexperienced production committee and their awful management. At best, we'll get one good episode followed by a couple of average ones and then followed by a couple of bad ones and so on.

At this point the only way it could improve is if they go the Naruto way and have 2 years of filler(helpe Naruto in which we got mostly great fights in the beginning of Shippuden), and besides, Naruto is currently on filler in order to get ready for the Boruto anime.

[Shreyas_Singh]

. Also,could someone please educate me on exactly what basis do 'key animators' charge their money from the studio ? If its based on amount and quality of drawings then they should probably decrease the total drawings per episode, wouldn't that help them a lot? Sorry I've got too many questions I'm still learning about this stuff.

Key animators are paid per cut or shot. No matter how lengthy or complex the cut is they are paid the same as far as I know. A newbie key animator makes 4000¥ a cut. In-betweeners are paid per drawing. They make 300¥ a drawing.

Thanks,mate. So I read Ajay's catalogue on first page , and I just found out that Karasawa also used to work on Hunter x Hunter 2011 . That show looks pretty good , so does anyone have any Karasawa 'key animation' form HunterxHunter ? Cuz I found nothing on sakugabooru .

[Alee9977]

Super will never have a decent schedule. It has been said many times already, but I'll say it again the lack of pre-production hurt it so bad that it still hasn't recovered and I highly doubt it ever will. Hell, Super doesn't even have a series composer and there's 3 series directors already. That's a clear sign of how fucked up the series is.

Super just came out of nowhere. Thanks to the inexperienced production committee and their awful management. At best, we'll get one good episode followed by a couple of average ones and then followed by a couple of bad ones and so on.

At this point the only way it could improve is if they go the Naruto way and have 2 years of filler(helpe Naruto in which we got mostly great fights in the beginning of Shippuden), and besides, Naruto is currently on filler in order to get ready for the Boruto anime.

I prefer stay in the place we are now to have 2 years of filler.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

At this point the only way it could improve is if they go the Naruto way and have 2 years of filler(helpe Naruto in which we got mostly great fights in the beginning of Shippuden), and besides, Naruto is currently on filler in order to get ready for the Boruto anime.

Naruto, in addition to having a better schedule than Super also consistently brought young talents to the forefront and let them play with the most crucial episodes. Date Hayato, the series director as well as all the other experienced guys pushed these young talents and also worked together with them to help them out. The result is pretty crystal clear. Hidan and Kakuzu story arc to the Pain stuff was Naruto Shippuuden's production at its best. Some of the best freelancers were brought on board and they helped in nailing all the key moments. The War arc had these young talents transformed to not only good animators, but good directors as well. Yamashita Hiroyuki is the best example and it lead to a solidly executed War arc for the most part.

Super, unlike Naruto lacks a vision and is still stuck with traditionalist animators like Yamamuro(top authority)and Shimanuki who have lost their skill as far as I am concerned and have nothing new to offer. My point is that other than schedule, staff also plays a big role and Super lacks good staff too. It's not to say that they are entirely bad. Tate Naoki is pretty much the savior animator, Hatano Morio is the best thing ever that can happen to a fucked up series like Super, although I highly doubt he has the time to have his vision due to schedule, Karasawa Kazuya is another director who shows a lot of promise and Karasawa Yuuichi even though not tested at all as an animator shows promise as well, but for the most part it isn't that good.

In order for Super to improve, other than the schedule it would also have to go a complete change in staff which is kind of impossible. Sorry, for going completely off-topic, but it does bother me sometimes seeing Dragon Ball franchise so far behind. By the way, Naruto is adapting the novels so it's not filler.

[iAnimationLover_]

Super will never have a decent schedule. It has been said many times already, but I'll say it again the lack of pre-production hurt it so bad that it still hasn't recovered and I highly doubt it ever will. Hell, Super doesn't even have a series composer and there's 3 series directors already. That's a clear sign of how fucked up the series is.

Super just came out of nowhere. Thanks to the inexperienced production committee and their awful management. At best, we'll get one good episode followed by a couple of average ones and then followed by a couple of bad ones and so on.

At this point the only way it could improve is if they go the Naruto way and have 2 years of filler(helpe Naruto in which we got mostly great fights in the beginning of Shippuden), and besides, Naruto is currently on filler in order to get ready for the Boruto anime.

I prefer stay in the place we are now to have 2 years of filler.

2 years of filler is too much

1 week is already a long wait xD

[Gashif Aldi]

At this point the only way it could improve is if they go the Naruto way and have 2 years of filler(helpe Naruto in which we got mostly great fights in the beginning of Shippuden), and besides, Naruto is currently on filler in order to get ready for the Boruto anime.

Naruto, in addition to having a better schedule than Super also consistently brought young talents to the forefront and let them play with the most crucial episodes. Date Hayato, the series director as well as all the other experienced guys pushed these young talents and also worked together with them to help them out. The result is pretty crystal clear. Hidan and Kakuzu story arc to the Pain stuff was Naruto Shippuuden's production at its best. Some of the best freelancers were brought on board and they helped in nailing all the key moments. The War arc had these young talents transformed to not only good animators, but good directors as well. Yamashita Hiroyuki is the best example and it lead to a solidly executed War arc for the most part.

Super, unlike Naruto lacks a vision and is still stuck with traditionalist animators like Yamamuro(top authority)and Shimanuki who have lost their skill as far as I am concerned and have nothing new to offer. My point is that other than schedule, staff also plays a big role and Super lacks good staff too. It's not to say that they are entirely bad. Tate Naoki is pretty much the savior animator, Hatano Morio is the best thing ever that can happen to a fucked up series like Super, although I highly doubt he has the time to have his vision due to schedule, Karasawa Kazuya is another director who shows a lot of promise and Karasawa Yuuichi even though not tested at all as an animator shows promise as well, but for the most part it isn't that good.

In order for Super to improve, other than the schedule it would also have to go a complete change in staff which is kind of impossible. Sorry, for going completely off-topic, but it does bother me sometimes seeing Dragon Ball franchise so far behind. By the way, Naruto is adapting the novels so it's not filler.

Well, If the schedule were better. We could actually do that. But it's too little room for breathing or they'll suffer.
Well, they can hire a huge ass amount of animators to fix up the schedule....
Since most animators are stressful, they'll only work on fun and good scheduled/directed projects.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I was thinking... If by hypothesis we got the next month a hiatus for Super, would that be effective in terms of animation or nothing would change much by it?

The only way Super would ever go on a one month hiatus would be if the Super staff and Toei convinced all parties involved that it would be a good thing for business to improve the show, so unlike how some people say Toei would just move their people onto other shows they would most likely actually take those 4 or 5 weeks to improve the production.
Super's almost definitely never going to take a hiatus though, lengthy amounts of filler like we're currently getting is the closest we'll get. Depending on what they've been doing behind the scenes the 10 weeks of filler might end up being as good or nearly as good as a 4 or 5 week hiatus and without the downside of the loss of sponsor money.

Even if Super is put on hiatus for a month or so, they still have to air something in that slot though right? Resources are going be wasted anyway so these "filler" episodes more or less are doing the same job.

[Mazingerdestro]

Hello guys!!!
I have a question for the hardcore animation fans and I hope that someone can answer it.

Usually in a bad episode, I spotted that some characters have black outlines in their eyes and I never understood why. They are not shadows and I don't get their purpose.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

The thing is that when the animation/character designs are better, nobody uses them.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Is there an actual reason these black outlines in the eyes exist? Is it on purpose and if it is, why they draw them sometimes and sometimes they don't?
For me it makes the characters look uglier. Any clues?