Unpopular DB opinions

[ekrolo2]

I would've liked Zamasu more if they didn't go the generic route of turning him into a barely comprehensible rambling psycho at the end, unless you do this carefully, all it does make the audience eye roll and just dismiss any valid point he may have as the ramblings of a total lunatic that make absolute 0 sense. Age of Ultron executed this well by having Ultron die with a lot of his dignity in tact, yeah he got punked physically but even in the face of death he didn't start yelling like a psycho because generic story-telling demands him to do.

I did like the final scene with Ultron and The Vision.

I don't think bad guys have to have valid points as much as they have to have a clear argument that makes sense to them.

I agree with them having a view of the world or an internal logic that makes sense to them. But Zamasu doesn't by the end. One second he praises mortals for their resilience and the next he'll go on a tirade about how much of an insult it for any mortal to challenge him.

It's probably intentional because Vegetto even points it out by saying "Wow, you just have to get the lost word in, don't you?".

[Draconic]

While Zamasu himself was played out straight as a Fallen Angel/God trope, I feel once he became Merged Zamasu in typical Dragon Ball fashion he became more or less a parody of the trope so that's why he starts acting more nonsensical. Of course, being the climax of the arc he still had to feel threatning and not played for laughs, but the intent is pretty clear.

[Kanassa]

Marty Suy-ish characters

What do you mean by that? In all the time I've looked through the Dragonball Community, I've never seen anyone use the label of sue right.

[Onibaku]

Dragon Ball is actually more enjoyable than Z

[Freeza9000]

I would've liked Zamasu more if they didn't go the generic route of turning him into a barely comprehensible rambling psycho at the end, unless you do this carefully, all it does make the audience eye roll and just dismiss any valid point he may have as the ramblings of a total lunatic that make absolute 0 sense. Age of Ultron executed this well by having Ultron die with a lot of his dignity in tact, yeah he got punked physically but even in the face of death he didn't start yelling like a psycho because generic story-telling demands him to do.

In a sense, I think Zamasu becoming increasingly more insane and psychotic actually works as it fits with his "fallen angel" character and how he isn't exactly the beautiful and righteous god he once claimed himself to be. If anything, him becoming this lunatic just also goes to show how Zamasu really is no different from the violent and barbaric mortals he so despised. I also don't really mind it much because unlike other villains in the franchise. the protagonists never really stood a chance against Zamasu, especially because of what happened in the end when Immortal Zamasu became the universe affecting all of space and time and nearly killing everyone.

[Anime Kitten]

I thought the ending to the Zamasu arc was incredibly well done.
[spoiler]There was literally no way the protagonists could take down his immortal, now universal self. Even a God of Destruction probably couldn't, because (and correct me if I'm wrong) he was spreading towards the entire Omniverse. The fact that they needed Zen'ō himself to take him out showed how unstoppable Zamasu really was.[/spoiler]

[ekrolo2]

In a sense, I think Zamasu becoming increasingly more insane and psychotic actually works as it fits with his "fallen angel" character and how he isn't exactly the beautiful and righteous god he once claimed himself to be. If anything, him becoming this lunatic just also goes to show how Zamasu really is no different from the violent and barbaric mortals he so despised. I also don't really mind it much because unlike other villains in the franchise. the protagonists never really stood a chance against Zamasu, especially because of what happened in the end when Immortal Zamasu became the universe affecting all of space and time and nearly killing everyone.

That's all fine and dandy but the problem is that's what all anime ALWAYS does with a character who wants to become a supreme being. They all become boring rambling lunatics who's entire appeal evaporates because they're just spouting nonsense. Zamasu particularly annoys me because he's not really wrong about mortals in the DBverse, almost all of them with any real power are amoral shit bags who's favorite past times are bashing pregnant women's brains in and eating puppies alive.

That's a really good point to bring up and use as a motivation and all of that is lost because Zamasu stops making any sense by the end. His personality doesn't make any sense, his powers and the mechanics behind them are more incomprehensible than the plot of a Grant Morrison Doom Patrol comic, his whole character is just a big load of moronic nonsense by the end.

[Freeza9000]

That's all fine and dandy but the problem is that's what all anime ALWAYS does with a character who wants to become a supreme being. They all become boring rambling lunatics who's entire appeal evaporates because they're just spouting nonsense. Zamasu particularly annoys me because he's not really wrong about mortals in the DBverse, almost all of them with any real power are amoral shit bags who's favorite past times are bashing pregnant women's brains in and eating puppies alive.

That's a really good point to bring up and use as a motivation and all of that is lost because Zamasu stops making any sense by the end. His personality doesn't make any sense, his powers and the mechanics behind them are more incomprehensible than the plot of a Grant Morrison Doom Patrol comic, his whole character is just a big load of moronic nonsense by the end

I don't really see Zamasu that righteous or valid either. It's true that there are mortals out there that do admittably horrible deeds, but Zamasu isn't really that much different either looking at his actions especially what happened when Zamasu stole Goku's body and killed his family, etc. Plus, I don't really see how repetition and cliches are a bad thing.

TBH, the only times where Zamasu's abilities does not make any sense is when Black created the rift with his scythe (Episode 64 can go die on a fire). Other than that, I'm fine with Zamasu summoning a purple Phoenix with his powers, etc. And how does his personality make no sense in the end?

[Ki Breaker]

Zamasu stops making any sense by the end. His personality doesn't make any sense, his powers and the mechanics behind them are more incomprehensible than the plot of a Grant Morrison Doom Patrol comic, his whole character is just a big load of moronic nonsense by the end.

This is very true..
When characters start pulling powers out of no fucking where it gets really irritating, you cannot predict what the style is and what is going on..
Black, trunks even merged zamasu did it

[kinisking]

Zamasu stops making any sense by the end. His personality doesn't make any sense, his powers and the mechanics behind them are more incomprehensible than the plot of a Grant Morrison Doom Patrol comic, his whole character is just a big load of moronic nonsense by the end.

This is very true..
When characters start pulling powers out of no fucking where it gets really irritating, you cannot predict what the style is and what is going on..
Black, trunks even merged zamasu did it

Pulling powers out of nowhere is okay, BUT not explaining why they're able to do things is what makes it bad. I've warmed up to the idea of Trunks spirit bomb surprisingly. If anything regardless of knowing martial arts can send their genki to Goku, I can imagine a desperate planet wishing they could help would be able to subconsciously do it also. Trunks' character is all about hope and it makes sense that he's able to use other people's hope as power

[ekrolo2]

I don't really see Zamasu that righteous or valid either. It's true that there are mortals out there that do admittably horrible deeds, but Zamasu isn't really that much different either looking at his actions especially what happened when Zamasu stole Goku's body and killed his family, etc. Plus, I don't really see how repetition and cliches are a bad thing.

TBH, the only times where Zamasu's abilities does not make any sense is when Black created the rift with his scythe (Episode 64 can go die on a fire). Other than that, I'm fine with Zamasu summoning a purple Phoenix with his powers, etc. And how does his personality make no sense in the end?

Zamasu's viewpoint is highly twisted but its not wrong, especially in the context of Dragon Ball. Besides the main characters, and even a fair amount of them like Vegeta, Piccolo and Tien used to fight this, mortals in Dragon Ball are the shittiest of the shit bags.

What's the most effective form of government we've seen in the series? An empire lead by a psychopath who employs other psychopaths in conquering the universe. The galactic patrol are incompetent morons and most of the Gods are either just as incompetent or just as bad as Freeza. With the exception of Whis, Beerus, and all that jazz, who are the most powerful mortals until Namek? The Ginyu Force, Vegeta, Nappa, Zarbon, Dodoria, Freeza, and all of them are amoral psychopaths, they're also the mortals with most power and they use their power for completely deplorable things. Hell, even guys like Goku and the reformed Vegeta, Piccolo, Tien are FAR more interested in using their power for purely selfish reasons and are only "heroes" in the loosest definition of the word.

Cliches aren't necessarily a bad thing, there's no such thing as a completely original story or character anymore but when your character gives me cringe-inducing flashbacks to Aizen, you've fucked up hard. Everything he says in 65 and 66 is just an insane tirade that takes away any validity he had previously, one second he's praising mortals for resisting them then goes on a Peter Jackson extended edition lengthy tirade about how mortals suck because they dare to harm him.

Zamasu randomly becoming a malevolent spirit that spreads across the universe. What in front flipping fuck even IS that?! How does he do it?! How does it work, why does Gowasu explain it like its something that's happened before? Or how about the random halo thing that's supposedly keeping his fusion stable, while we're on the subject, what sense is there in Merged Zamasu to NOT be completely immortal? Vegetto isn't half-dead because Vegeta was so why isn't Merged Zamasu completely immortal? Or that light of justice thing that gives him a random power up once he starts to mutate? Since when does he have an external source of power and why the hell hasn't this been mentioned anywhere else? The portal is but the tip of the iceberg of random BS concerning Zamasu's nonsense powers.

[Soppa Saia People]

Dragon Ball is actually more enjoyable than Z

That's not really unpopular on here.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's fine, so is Light Yagami.

Light was so annoying and his supposedly complex motives weren't really all that complex or interesting.

I agree, that was pretty much my point. In fact, Zamasu and Light are practically the same villain, even though Zamasu took it a step or two further. Their motivations were totally irrational, but they're still likable enough, at least for most of us. However, it would have been far better if they had legitimate cause. That's the only point I was trying to get across.

[Doctor.]

That's fine, so is Light Yagami.

Light was so annoying and his supposedly complex motives weren't really all that complex or interesting.

I agree, that was pretty much my point. In fact, Zamasu and Light are practically the same villain, even though Zamasu took it a step or two further. Their motivations were totally irrational, but they're still likable enough, at least for most of us. However, it would have been far better if they had legitimate cause. That's the only point I was trying to get across.

Zamasu doesn't take his clever planning to ridiculous extremes to the point where you can't suspend your disbelief anymore.

[rereboy]

Light's thinking is naive, too arrogant and it generalizes too much, but it's not irrational.

[ABED]

It's completely irrational. He condemns people for being immoral and yet he has absolutely no compunction against killing even cops for trying to find him and stop him regardless of their ethics.

[rereboy]

It's completely irrational. He condemns people for being immoral and yet he has absolutely no compunction against killing even cops for trying to find him and stop him regardless of their ethics.

Thinking that many people are stupid and don't understand how better the world will be once his vision comes true, and that some sacrifices are acceptable to ensure that that vision comes true is not irrational.

The first part just shows his arrogance and how he's actually naive, and the second part is actually very common and we see it happening all the time with people with power, even people that we might not consider evil (for example, considering some civilian causalities acceptable in the fight against terrorism if there is no way to ensure no civilian causalities while fighting terrorists).

We may not agree with his logic and we might find his thinking not 100% consistent (basically no one is), but being irrational, let alone completely irrational isn't that. Something irrational is devoid of all logic and all reason, not just what we agree with.

[Kanassa]

That's fine, so is Light Yagami.

Light was so annoying and his supposedly complex motives weren't really all that complex or interesting.

I agree, that was pretty much my point. In fact, Zamasu and Light are practically the same villain, even though Zamasu took it a step or two further. Their motivations were totally irrational, but they're still likable enough, at least for most of us. However, it would have been far better if they had legitimate cause. That's the only point I was trying to get across.

There's only one way to test this... SOMONE GET ZAMASU HIS POTATO CHIPS!

[ABED]

It's irrational. He'll kill all the evil people and then what? There will be no more evil people? That isn't merely naïve, that's stupid. It's illogical to think you can wipe out evil. As long as man exists and has free will, there will be those that choose to do evil. He's irrational because he refuses to see the clear contradiction and as far as I remember, he doesn't have some grand vision for the world.

And civilian casualties are not only inevitable, they are also moral if you intend to bring a swift end to the conflict, but Death Note wasn't war, so it's a completely different situation. It was just a dumb boring emo teen who was on a power trip.

[rereboy]

It's irrational. He'll kill all the evil people and then what? There will be no more evil people? That isn't merely naïve, that's stupid. It's illogical to think you can wipe out evil.

He didn't plan to "eradicate" evil as in it would cease to exist. He planned to have a justice system managed by him that made almost all people not willing to do anything seriously criminal, with the occasional criminal serving as an example. In other words, he planned to make people behave themselves by extreme force and overall considered the vision he had to be better than the present world because crimes would be much rarer, in his opinion.

Every justice and criminal system in the world already has the implicit objective of making people behave themselves by establishing consequences if they don't, but they also usually concern themselves with notions like rehabilitation, mercy, human rights and varying degrees of severity regarding the consequences. Light simply thought that rehabilitation, mercy, human rights and so one didn't get the job done compared to his vision and therefore thought that his way was overall better, and he was arrogant and naive enough to actually believe that and think that only he could do it and everything that that entails.

There's a clear logic and reasoning to what he thinks and even if we don't agree, as long as there exists something like that within his thoughts, it's not irrational. That's simply the wrong term.

And civilian casualties are not only inevitable, they are also moral if you intend to bring a swift end to the conflict, but Death Note wasn't war, so it's a completely different situation. It was just a dumb boring emo teen who was on a power trip.

Both situations have the objective of making the world better. You just happen to think that in one it's acceptable and in the other it's not, while Light disagrees. That doesn't make him devoid of reason. He might be evil, but not devoid of reason and logic.