"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Nejishiki]

Toriyama already changed the ending once with the Kanzenban release, so I don't see why he can't do it again.

He didn't change it, he just expanded.

He did more than simply expanding. The Kanzenban edition of Dragon Ball's ending featured changes to character relationships and specific dialogue details, ultimately altering the tone of the original ending.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Toriyama already changed the ending once with the Kanzenban release, so I don't see why he can't do it again.

He didn't change it, he just expanded it.

He did change Vegeta's last dialogue, as well as the ending message. People blow that change way out of proportion, though.

[alakazam^]

That line came from Bulma though had it come from the narrator then yeah it would have been a bit of a problem. But I'll happily chalk that up to Bulma exaggerating.

When did she say it? I checked the manga and it wasn't said on the narration box nor when she and Vegeeta went to see Goku.

That's right but if Bulma was 4 years older than Goku then Goku should have been 1 years old in Dragon Ball Minus or Bulma should have been 3 years old.

In DB Minus Gine said that Goku had been in the incubator for 3 years. In the same chapter Jaco was sent to Earth and the events of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman happened within days of this and at the end Bulma showed up and they said she was 5 years old.

So if Bulma was 16 at the start of Dragon Ball then Goku should be 14 which he was originally. So I don't know if Toriyama forgot that he retconned his age or something.

In this case we have to go with Minus because it's the more recent stuff coming from Toriyama and it doesn't contradict the manga and the movies. The Daizenshuu/Chouzenshuu should be ignored when they contradict stuff because they're just reference materials and don't replace the actual work. So, Goku is 3 years older than we thought and neither he, Kamesennin or Gohan know that.

About Super's timeline, I think they are leaving it vague to not compromise themselves. As has been discussed, Goten and Trunk's appearance, Oob's mention, Satan's money, Vegeeta's promise, Dragon Ball wishes and Bloomer's line all point to Super starting not long after the wish from Boo's arc. In fact, how many wishes did Shenlong say he'd grant in the Battle of Gods arc? One or three? Wasn't there one wish remaining from the Boo arc after the memories of Boo? If so, Super possibly could have happened not even an year after Boo's wish.

I'd like to quote what I wrote when that screenshot of episode 1's script was posted:

[spoiler][/spoiler]
What's the context behind the rest of the text on the script/draft/whatever for Episode 1. If it says a few months have passed, but that page is still detailing the wish to erase Buu's memories, then it's relatively useless.

If it's talking about the content from the episode set after the recap material, then it could have some value I suppose.

It says "several months after the Boo arc", then it describes Goku plowing the fields with the tractor and Goten arriving. It goes straight to dialogue between them after that.

Interestingly, in the episode proper, Goku asks Goten if school was over but in the script he asks if "kindergarten" was over.

I still don't know if the script came from Toriyama or was just a rough draft by the Toei staff but it does point to a specific timeframe being thought of as to when Super would have started. Granted, the "several months" and "kindergarten" line were changed in the episode proper.

Also not all of the events in the first few episodes have to happen at the same time or one after another, the Beerus stuff could be long after Vegeta's vacation for example.

Goku goes to Kaiou's after getting Satan's money and then we see Beers destroying half a planet. Episode 2's epilogue mentions those events happen around the same time. Later in the episode we see Goku arriving at Kaiou's to train and Beers continues his destruction spree. Some time in episode 3, Beers goes to his planet, bathes and such and then decides to head over Kaiou's planet because of Goku. This is when the old Kaioushin says he has destroyed eight and a half planets in half a day. So, he destroyed the planets in half a day and then spent some time in his planet.

This means that all of these happen at the same time, there's no going around it. Maybe, Vegeeta's trip and episode 1 happen at the same time as well but, at the very least, episode 1 and Beers' awakening are not days apart.

[ArchedThunder]

Goku goes to Kaiou's after getting Satan's money and then we see Beers destroying half a planet. Episode 2's epilogue mentions those events happen around the same time. Later in the episode we see Goku arriving at Kaiou's to train and Beers continues his destruction spree. Some time in episode 3, Beers goes to his planet, bathes and such and then decides to head over Kaiou's planet because of Goku. This is when the old Kaioushin says he has destroyed eight and a half planets in half a day. So, he destroyed the planets in half a day and then spent some time in his planet.

This means that all of these happen at the same time, there's no going around it. Maybe, Vegeeta's trip and episode 1 happen at the same time as well but, at the very least, episode 1 and Beers' awakening are not days apart.

Nothing makes it so that all of these events have to happen in the order they are presented. Goku goes to train at Kaios? So what? Chi Chi even says that he should just come visit sometimes, so that implies that he could be training for a long time, then there is the fact that Bulma gets the idea for a cruise ship while on vacation. Nothing directly connects Goku going to train as happening at the same time as Beerus destroying planets.

[Noah]

When did she say it? I checked the manga and it wasn't said on the narration box nor when she and Vegeeta went to see Goku.

Didn't she said thet last time she saw Kakarot was 5 years ago because he had to train?

[Bullza]

I'd like to think that somehow it ties in with Yo Son Goku and His Friends Return which was from Toriyama and he did go out of his way to include a reference to it in the movie. Yes I know it wasn't in Super though.

That special was supposed to be set 2 years after they defeated Buu. At which point as Goku said he'd already been given money from Mr Satan.

So the first and possibly second episode would take place in Age 775. Yo Son Goku in Age 776 and then episode 3 onward would be in Age 778.

In episode 3 Beerus does still mention that he received the prophecy 39 years ago. So it would seem as though it is set in the same year as the movie. Whether the first couple episodes were though....who knows.

[alakazam^]

Nothing makes it so that all of these events have to happen in the order they are presented. Goku goes to train at Kaios? So what? Chi Chi even says that he should just come visit sometimes, so that implies that he could be training for a long time, then there is the fact that Bulma gets the idea for a cruise ship while on vacation. Nothing directly connects Goku going to train as happening at the same time as Beerus destroying planets.

The narration connects them. Since this is all Toei's doing, it can be trusted as fact.

It's true Goku going to train could be placed at any time but in episode 2 we see him arriving there for the first time and, either in that episode or the next one, Kaiou contacts the Kaioushins because of Beers and Goku. Nothing is being presented as having happened out of order. Arguably, Vegeeta's trip might be since it's not connected to Goku or Beers.

Didn't she said thet last time she saw Kakarot was 5 years ago because he had to train?

Goku said it's "only" been 5 years since they last saw each other and she stresses the five years and says that even when they all get together he doesn't come because he's training. But I was referring to the 10 years "of peace", which I didn't find in the manga in those instances I listed.

In episode 3 Beerus does still mention that he received the prophecy 39 years ago. So it would seem as though it is set in the same year as the movie. Whether the first couple episodes were though....who knows.

Couldn't the 39 years fit not long after Boo still? I don't think it matters that much when he went to sleep, Freeza would have just taken longer to destroy planet Vegeeta.

[Bullza]

Couldn't the 39 years fit not long after Boo still? I don't think it matters that much when he went to sleep, Freeza would have just took longer to destroy planet Vegeeta.

Well if Super started in Age 775 then it would mean that Beerus went to sleep in Age 736 which would mean in the flashback scene with King Vegeta that Vegeta would be about 4 probably at most. Goku was 3 himself in Minus so it's hard to imagine he'd only be a year older.

Vegeta looked the same in Minus and he was supposed to be 7 there. It's not impossible though.

Also looking into it further the Yo Son Goku special taking place between episodes 2 and 3 doesn't work at all as the events of the Battle of Gods saga happen all at the same time really. So that OVA doesn't fit with Super.

Someone mentioned how Gohan isn't in school and if it's anything like in Japan they finish school at 18 so if Gohan is supposed to be like 19 now then that'd be about 3 years after Buu's defeat anyway.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

If Goku was a toddler when he arrived on Earth - as stupid as that is - at least he still fell on his head so that he could forget everything about being sent there.

[HeroR]

If Goku was a toddler when he arrived on Earth - as stupid as that is - at least he still fell on his head so that he could forget everything about being sent there.

I don't see why that is stupid. It makes far more sense for Goku to be a toddler instead of a newborn sent to destroy a planet. How would a newborn know what his 'orders' were. Saiyan babies haven't been shown themselves to be smarter than human babies looking at Trunks.

[Kanassa]

If Goku was a toddler when he arrived on Earth - as stupid as that is - at least he still fell on his head so that he could forget everything about being sent there.

I don't see why that is stupid. It makes far more sense for Goku to be a toddler instead of a newborn sent to destroy a planet. How would a newborn know what his 'orders' were. Saiyan babies haven't been shown themselves to be smarter than human babies looking at Trunks.

Plus, the alternative makes me feel terrible for Saiyan mothers.
"Oh look! I can already see the giant, gravity defying hair; PUSH!"

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

I thought the whole point was that Saiyans were destructive by nature and would ruin everything foreign to them unless raised to do otherwise. They don't need orders when it's instinctual and they derive pleasure from it. (Even Super's Pan, lol.)

Raditz was supposed to be a "typical" Saiyan, but Minus's portrayal of his parents just makes him seem like a led-astray sociopath.

[Bullza]

There was also that dialogue from Jaco in the manga where he said Saiyan children stay children for a long time (much longer compared to humans) and then suddenly shoot up in height.

That's something that happened with Goku. It could be why Goten and Trunks are still so young looking.

That said it wasn't like that for Gohan or Future Trunks. Wasn't Future Trunks 14 in the History of Trunks manga? Isn't that how old Kid Trunks is supposed to be now? If he was 8 in Age 774 and now we're on either Age 780 or 781 then he could be older which again does not make sense.

[Psykomatik]

Piccolo won't appear on the next bunch of episodes: His voice, Toshio Furukawa, is now in France according to his twitter.

[Kanassa]

Poccolo won't appear on the next bunch of episodes: His voice, Toshio Furukawa, is now in France according to his twitter.

Distance hasn't stopped many VA's before

[Psykomatik]

Piccolo won't appear on the next bunch of episodes: His voice, Toshio Furukawa, is now in France according to his twitter.

Distance hasn't stopped many VA's before

Ah, didn't know. Sorry!

[HeroR]

I thought the whole point was that Saiyans were destructive by nature and would ruin everything foreign to them unless raised to do otherwise. They don't need orders when it's instinctual and they derive pleasure from it. (Even Super's Pan, lol.)

Raditz was supposed to be a "typical" Saiyan, but Minus's portrayal of his parents just makes him seem like a led-astray sociopath.

Raditz said that Goku had orders to destroy Earth and it was 'his mission'. Not that it was Goku's natural behavior to wipe the planet. Saiyans are naturally violent, but it was never said that they would just wipe out an entire species if they were just left alone. Even then, it sill makes no sense to send a newborn. We have seen baby Trunks at several months old and he can barely walk by the end of the Cell Games. How was baby Goku expected to feed himself, find sheather, forget wiping out the population.

Bardock in Minus was happily wiping out a group of aliens before being called back to Vegeta. He wasn't a good person. And Gine pointed out that Bardock caring for his kid was unusual for him, to which Bardock answered that her softness was rubbing off on him. In other words, until recently Bardock gave no shits about Goku.

[Chuquita]

More summaries for the Saiyaman mini arc:
[spoiler]

Source: http://itest.2ch.net/shiba/test/read.cg ... 1483408081[/spoiler]

From my quick glance at it, it doesn't look like anything we don't already know (aside from Videl is also helping make the movie), but I could be wrong.

[Nejishiki]

You're correct. The details about the film, Watagash, and Barry Karn were already known. Videl's presence is new to me.

[Noah]

So what are the odds of we see the return of Great Saiyaman 2? Enough of good housewife Videl