Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by HeroR » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:17 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:How would Future Zamasu know that? The only people who would know are Future Trunks and Bulma. Plus, Present Zamasu asked about everything about Goku from Zuno, so why wouldn't he know about Goku being saved from the heart virus by a time traveler named Trunks. He was surprised since he didn't know what the Time Machine looked like, the moment he realized he went into the past, he put two and two together quickly. He also wouldn't know that the Time Ring would take him to the past, even with Time Machine, since Time Rings normally can't travel back. Even Whis was surprised by this.
Like Jinzoningen MULE pointed out, they could have asked Zuno. Also, they're Gods, they may have ways to check the past. Whis seemed to know all about the Saiyans (that Goku defeated Freeza, that they lived on Earth and could all go Super Saiyan) and I doubt he was watching them since the beginning. He seemed surprised, to me, at the fact that Trunks could even time travel, not the fact that he had a machine.
Present Zamasu already asked about all the information about Goku, so he should already know about Goku's life being saved by Trunks since it's part of his history. Plus, why would Zuno be alive in the future? Black and Zamasu most likely killed him so no one could asked him about what they did with the Super Dragon Balls or how to stop him.

Whis was surprised that the humans made a Time Machine. He was also surprised that Black traveled back with a Time Ring since Time Rings can't go backwards in time. Whis also knew about Goku's fight with Freeza since it was a big event. The original strongest in the universe got toppled by a Saiyan. Goku dying to a heart virus wouldn't be big news.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by SaiyanZ » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:11 pm

Because of his Saiyan ability to get stronger after a fight. The reason this doesn't work and is a contradiction to his character is because if he wanted a strong body, he should've gone after stronger people like any of the 12 Gods of Destruction or Whis or Vados or the Grand Priest or Zeno, etc. The Saiyan biology trait doesn't work either because anyone can get stronger through training. Not only would he have great power, he wouldn't have to deal with using a mortal body and can not be ashamed of using one. It was a move that destroyed any sense in his character.
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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by Freeza9000 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:09 pm

SaiyanZ wrote:Because of his Saiyan ability to get stronger after a fight. The reason this doesn't work and is a contradiction to his character is because if he wanted a strong body, he should've gone after stronger people like any of the 12 Gods of Destruction or Whis or Vados or the Grand Priest or Zeno, etc. The Saiyan biology trait doesn't work either because anyone can get stronger through training. Not only would he have great power, he wouldn't have to deal with using a mortal body and can not be ashamed of using one. It was a move that destroyed any sense in his character.
I highly doubt that Zamasu knows who the hell Zeno is considering his speeches about him being the Supreme God (says it in supreme confidence as if it's true) and even killing the other gods in other universes without fear of Zeno interfering.

There's also this line of dialog where Zamasu/Goku Black refers to Goku's body as the "blessing of the gods" after impaling Goku so many times. So I don't know where you got the whole "Zamasu got ashamed of using a mortal body". Thing is, he views Goku as a source of great power that should've belonged to a god, not a mortal. Because of the fact that Goku managed to reach godhood despite being a mere ningen and the fact that he saw him along with a GoD (a privilege a mortal rarely gets), Zamasu finds something special and gifted within Goku that he values over all the other gods and even commenting that Goku has powers that even surpasses gods. Granted, Goku isn't as strong as characters such as Whis yet, but in Zamasu's eyes, he could reach/surpass that level of power through fighting other mortals, etc. Heck, he used Goku's bid more efficiently than Goku ever did himself.

"...anyone can get stronger through training"
Not to the absurd amount as Goku Black did as he constantly gets stronger through pain (went from SSJ3 tier to surpassing SSJB and not to mention, got stronger to the point where he rips through space and time).

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by Lord Frieza » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:11 pm

Because Goku is awesome.

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by Gog » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:54 pm

Because Goku kicked the shit out of him, and plot

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by SaiyanZ » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:54 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:
I highly doubt that Zamasu knows who the hell Zeno is considering his speeches about him being the Supreme God (says it in supreme confidence as if it's true) and even killing the other gods in other universes without fear of Zeno interfering.

There's also this line of dialog where Zamasu/Goku Black refers to Goku's body as the "blessing of the gods" after impaling Goku so many times. So I don't know where you got the whole "Zamasu got ashamed of using a mortal body". Thing is, he views Goku as a source of great power that should've belonged to a god, not a mortal. Because of the fact that Goku managed to reach godhood despite being a mere ningen and the fact that he saw him along with a GoD (a privilege a mortal rarely gets), Zamasu finds something special and gifted within Goku that he values over all the other gods and even commenting that Goku has powers that even surpasses gods. Granted, Goku isn't as strong as characters such as Whis yet, but in Zamasu's eyes, he could reach/surpass that level of power through fighting other mortals, etc. Heck, he used Goku's bid more efficiently than Goku ever did himself.

"...anyone can get stronger through training"
Not to the absurd amount as Goku Black did as he constantly gets stronger through pain (went from SSJ3 tier to surpassing SSJB and not to mention, got stronger to the point where he rips through space and time).
A Kaioshin in training should know who their leader is. There is no excuse for not knowing that.

One line of dialog doesn't get rid of Zamasu's established hatred of Goku. He had no reaction to using Goku's body, but he should've had one.

That's just Zenkais being wanked by Toei, its hardly ever THAT wanked in the original manga or in Super's manga. Goku shouldn't be so much more stronger after Zenkais of all things, Beerus and Whis are still leagues above him. If he wanted a body that can go through that despite being weaker, than he should've gone after Gohan or Trunks or one of the half-breeds with more potential, especially since Zuno told him everything about Goku. Yet another reason why it doesn't work.
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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by Freeza9000 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:42 pm

SaiyanZ wrote:A Kaioshin in training should know who their leader is. There is no excuse for not knowing that.
Taking to account his dialog about how he is the sole Supreme God and killing the gods without even fearing that a higher power would stop him, that seems to support the fact that he doesn't know about Zeno no matter what you say.
SaiyanZ wrote:One line of dialog doesn't get rid of Zamasu's established hatred of Goku. He had no reaction to using Goku's body, but he should've had one.
Although he hates Goku, he at the same time admires Goku's body and his powers. That is, if you want to call it a somewhat hate/love relationship. I mean, you can tell by his character interaction with Goku, especially in EP 50 where he fights Goku.

One can say that Black wants to get continuously stronger throughout his fights against others with his own powers inhabiting a Saiyan body such as Goku's and reach even farther heights in strength. That's a living thrill to him. Like I said former, he finds something special in Goku that he values more than other gods. Despite being a mere mortal, Goku managed to reach the realms of the gods and even Whis commented that Goku could one day replace Beerus if Beerus kicks the bucket. A rare privilege indeed. And if Zamasu possess Goku's body and continously adapt to it further and improve it, he would eventually become the strongest God in his own eyes. And no, Zamasu stealing Gohan's body would be very off putting.

About the Zenkai part, I don't really think they are Zenkais or near death experiences boosts, etc. I think it has to do more with Black adapting to Goku's body and the Saiyan trait to adapt and grow stronger the longer the battle goes on according to an interview from Toriyama. Hell, Vegeta in the Universe 6 arc said so himself. Not to mention, what Goku said in the BOG arc about him getting accustomed to SSJG.

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by SaiyanZ » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:58 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:
SaiyanZ wrote:A Kaioshin in training should know who their leader is. There is no excuse for not knowing that.
Taking to account his dialog about how he is the sole Supreme God and killing the gods without even fearing that a higher power would stop him, that seems to support the fact that he doesn't know about Zeno no matter what you say.
He says that because he's being arrogant, not because he doesn't know Zeno.
Freeza9000 wrote:Although he hates Goku, he at the same time admires Goku's body and his powers. That is, if you want to call it a somewhat hate/love relationship. I mean, you can tell by his character interaction with Goku, especially in EP 50 where he fights Goku.

One can say that Black wants to get continuously stronger throughout his fights against others with his own powers inhabiting a Saiyan body such as Goku's and reach even farther heights in strength. That's a living thrill to him. Like I said former, he finds something special in Goku that he values more than other gods. Despite being a mere mortal, Goku managed to reach the realms of the gods and even Whis commented that Goku could one day replace Beerus if Beerus kicks the bucket. A rare privilege indeed. And if Zamasu possess Goku's body and continously adapt to it further and improve it, he would eventually become the strongest God in his own eyes. And no, Zamasu stealing Gohan's body would be very off putting.

About the Zenkai part, I don't really think they are Zenkais or near death experiences boosts, etc. I think it has to do more with Black adapting to Goku's body and the Saiyan trait to adapt and grow stronger the longer the battle goes on according to an interview from Toriyama. Hell, Vegeta in the Universe 6 arc said so himself. Not to mention, what Goku said in the BOG arc about him getting accustomed to SSJG.
Which is why his character is terrible. Its ok to respect someone you hate but not so much so that you steal his body, especially when its to prove the might of one race (gods) over another (mortals). That's counterproductive.

Finding something special in Goku's potential strength is something I understand, but it is still a contradiction to his more overbearing and trademark trait about him hating mortals. Like I said, if potential was his reasoning, than he should've gone for Gohan or another half-breed because of the info Zuno gave him. I'm not discussing whether its off putting or not, I'm talking about his practicality and reasoning. Goku's potential doesn't single him out in comparison to multiple stronger people, that can get even stronger. Zenkais or w/e one calls it doesn't make his choice any less dumb.

Right, and just as we saw in the anime, what Vegeta said in the U6 arc is completely false as he trains and blows up the RoSaT anyway.
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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by Freeza9000 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:33 pm

SaiyanZ wrote:He says that because he's being arrogant, not because he doesn't know Zeno

I would have to think that if Zamasu were to know of Zeno, he would be petrified to all hell like the other gods were. If Zamasu were to know that "OHH ZENO SO STRONG HE DELETE EVERYTHING FROM EXISTENCE, INCLUDING UNIVERSES!!!", then I'd expect him to show some fear. I mean, considering the fact that Zamasu is trying to build a utopia, you'd think he'd be cautious about his actions if he were to know about Zeno.
SaiyanZ wrote:Which is why his character is terrible. Its ok to respect someone you hate but not so much so that you steal his body, especially when its to prove the might of one race (gods) over another (mortals). That's counterproductive.
And even when Zamasu steals Goku's body, he still refers to himself as God. You know why? It's because he thought that Goku's body and powers are meant to belong to a god, not a mere mortal.

And the thing is that Goku is more of a prodigy than Gohan, at least in Zamasu's eyes. Did Gohan even tap into godhood like Goku? No. Did Gohan ever tag along side a GoD like Goku once did? No. Did Gohan challenge God of Destruction like Goku did? No.

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Re: Why did Zamasu use Goku's body?

Post by SaiyanZ » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:48 pm

Freeza9000 wrote: I would have to think that if Zamasu were to know of Zeno, he would be petrified to all hell like the other gods were. If Zamasu were to know that "OHH ZENO SO STRONG HE DELETE EVERYTHING FROM EXISTENCE, INCLUDING UNIVERSES!!!", then I'd expect him to show some fear. I mean, considering the fact that Zamasu is trying to build a utopia, you'd think he'd be cautious about his actions if he were to know about Zeno.
Well, we're talking about a guy who had no reaction of disgust to using Goku's body so him not showing fear isn't really indicative that he doesn't know Zeno.
Freeza9000 wrote: And even when Zamasu steals Goku's body, he still refers to himself as God. You know why? It's because he thought that Goku's body and powers are meant to belong to a god, not a mere mortal.

And the thing is that Goku is more of a prodigy than Gohan, at least in Zamasu's eyes. Did Gohan even tap into godhood like Goku? No. Did Gohan ever tag along side a GoD like Goku once did? No. Did Gohan challenge God of Destruction like Goku did? No.
No, he refers to himself as God because his essence/soul hasn't changed, only his body. He's still Zamasu. He didn't steal it because he thought Goku's powers were only reserved for a god, he thought that was an insult. He stole it because of its potential for strength, which like I said earlier, isn't a good reason.

Those weren't criteria for why Zamasu used Goku's body. He chose it because of strength, not because of who he interacted with. If Vegeta can get god powers through training, then so can anyone, provided they're talented enough, which Gohan is thanks to his potential.
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