Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Doctor. wrote:I used it as an example of a series not sticking with its protagonist for a reason.
I don't get why you'd use it as example if it's not good, though. If it can't be demonstrated to succeed, there's no reason to think this series, one that has long since stopped taking risks, would go that route.
Last edited by Jinzoningen MULE on Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Doctor. wrote:I used it as an example of a series not sticking with its protagonist for a reason.
I don't get why you'd use it as example if it's not good, though. If it can't be demonstrated to succeed, there's no reason to think this series, one that has long since stopped taking risks, to go that route.
I'm using it as an example because it's clearly a series that's being milked (like Dragon Ball), the last arcs have been absolute shit (like Dragon Ball) and even though the next generation isn't very good, it's still better and more enjoyable than the shitshow the last couple of arcs with Naruto at the helm have been.
Last edited by Doctor. on Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ABED wrote:Toriyama did try something new with Gohan but didn't feel that it worked and it didn't.
It didn't work because he didn't work at it, he switched back to Goku right away.
If he was going to kill Goku and switch him out for Gohan then he should've at least given him an arc to show the impacts of that.
He switched back because he didn't think it was working as well. Toriyama said that explicitly.
I don't want him completely removed from the story but I'd like for him to step aside for other characters like what Kishimoto did in Naruto.
It's called "Naruto". And I'm not talking about just complete removal. Placing someone else as the primary character late into a series run doesn't work for me, nor others because if the series has lasted for a while we have a big emotional investment in the lead.
I think we need to differentiate between if a series is better overall with a new lead vs. a series with a new lead being better than the last couple bad arcs.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ABED wrote:He switched back because he didn't think it was working as well. Toriyama said that explicitly.
Placing someone else as the primary character late into a series run doesn't work for me, nor others because if the series has lasted for a while we have a big emotional investment in the lead.
I know he said that, what I'm saying is that he gave up before even trying.
DB isn't going anywhere anytime soon so would it be so bad if 1 or 2 of the 10+ arcs we'll get will have a different lead ? Vegeta for example is a fully developed character so what would be the harm of giving him an arc ? or Piccolo who's fan base have been crying for years to see him get something ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Oh, I loved the Boruto movie. From a production point it was absolutely outstanding. The visuals were top-notch and the direction was effective. The downtime scenes were also nailed to perfection. Especially, the head band scene. I thought it was the perfect end to the franchise. To be honest, they should've stopped there. Boruto does not interest me as a character like Naruto did. Sarada is also no Sasuke and never will be. The new generation isn't just as interesting.
Yeah, they might go in a completely different direction and make something good, but it doesn't interest me and Boruto series feels like Shueisha going " oh shit, besides One Piece we have no big titles, so let's not let our 2nd big property die and keep continuing it". Horrible management and corporate nonsense right there which I'm pretty sure will affect the series. I'm still a little confident that the show will have decent production values and will be watchable, so hopefully it won't end up being completely stagnant like Super.
Dragon Ball already went that route with Kai, so I think it's just following that path. It shouldn't be that surprising we're getting all this stuff. The franchise is already as creatively stagnant as you can get and it's surviving on nothing but popularity.
Last edited by Saikyo no Senshi on Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sintzu wrote:I know he said that, what I'm saying is that he gave up before even trying.
Gohan wasn't reduced to the position of minor character until Boo absorbed Gotenks. Prior to that, Toriyama had been shifting him between several positions, none of them interesting enough to catapult the story off of. You seem to be misremembering the story, as if Gohan was only the focus pre-tournament. Toriyama unarguably did try with Gohan.
I think he did the right thing. I like Gohan, just not as the lead. The Great Saiyaman wore out its welcome and the reluctant hero thing is overdone. I like Goku's vibrancy and self assuredness.
I'm not arguing against characters having a story, but that's a different issue from being a lead. I love Piccolo and I'd like to see him get something important, that doesn't require him being the main character. If he needs to be the lead, it should be for a short time.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:I'm still a little confident that the show will have decent production values and will be watchable, so hopefully it won't end up being completely stagnant like Super.
I trust Kishimoto's storytelling and its studio is a lot more competant than Toei is so there's a higher chance of it being good compared to DB.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Gohan wasn't reduced to the position of minor character until Boo absorbed Gotenks. Prior to that, Toriyama had been shifting him between several positions, none of them interesting enough to catapult the story off of. You seem to be misremembering the story, as if Gohan was only the focus pre-tournament. Toriyama unarguably did try with Gohan.
I like the way Buu turned out but I think we should've gotten an arc before it that completely focused on Gohan as the lead.
Last edited by sintzu on Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
sintzu wrote:
I trust Kishimoto's storytelling and its studio is a lot more competant than Toei is so there's a higher chance of it being good compared to DB.
Studios don't matter, staff does. If Yamashita Hiroyuki, the man who made Shippuuden great and his crew take part, it'll be good for the most part, if he doesn't then it's fucked.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Ironically enough almost every long running anime changes its protagonists eventually. The only one other than Dragonball I can think of is Pokemon, since Ash is still the main character after 20 years. But pokemon is squarely aimed at kids and not based on a manga, so I don't see why Dragonball has to do the same.
We already have a set of younger heroes like Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Pan, Bra, Uub, etc....waiting to take up the mantle as the next generation of fighters.
