The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DanielSSJ]

Here are some fights:

- Android #13 vs. SSJ Future Gohan.
- Cooler (final form) vs. Piccolo (Android arc).
- SSJ3 Son Goku (Boo arc) vs. Oob (beginning of GT).
- Gotenks-Boo vs. Vegeta (base, Resurrection F).

- Future Gohan is probably about as strong as Goku was when he fought Freeza. While not quite matching up to the early-Android Arc Super Saiyans, The three movie androids were strong enough to provide them significant difficulties, even if that was due to their durable android bodies or their infinite stamina. Odds are Gohan loses.
- Honestly, I don't think Coola is much stronger than Mecha Freeza. His fifth form is just a more efficient manifestation of the power stressed 100% state that Freeza used (sorta like comparing Super Saiyan 2 to Super Saiyan Grade 2). In my opinion, Piccolo is roughly as strong as Goku and Trunks were right after Goku's return to Earth, so he'd have a significant advantage, by my estimations. Ignoring any planet destroying shenanigans, Piccolo comes out on top.
- Even ignoring GT's usual craziness, Oob should be at a minimum, as strong as the original Pure Boo after his 5-year training sabbatical with Goku, and unlike Goku, he wouldn't have any stamina issues. Oob most likely wins.
- I'm of the opinion that there was a reason that the creators had Gohan regress back to using normal Super Saiyan and had Gotenks excluded altogether. Vegeta would probably need Super Saiyan Blue to truly outclass the strongest contenders of the Boo arc, in my opinion.

[TheUltimateNinja]

- Cooler (final form) vs. Piccolo (Android arc).
- Gotenks-Boo vs. Vegeta (base, Resurrection F).

- Honestly, I don't think Coola is much stronger than Mecha Freeza. His fifth form is just a more efficient manifestation of the power stressed 100% state that Freeza used (sorta like comparing Super Saiyan 2 to Super Saiyan Grade 2). In my opinion, Piccolo is roughly as strong as Goku and Trunks were right after Goku's return to Earth, so he'd have a significant advantage, by my estimations. Ignoring any planet destroying shenanigans, Piccolo comes out on top.
- I'm of the opinion that there was a reason that the creators had Gohan regress back to using normal Super Saiyan and had Gotenks excluded altogether. Vegeta would probably need Super Saiyan Blue to truly outclass the strongest contenders of the Boo arc, in my opinion.

-There's a fairly sizable gap between Grade 2 and SSJ2. around 33-66% depending on who you ask, and by my numbers Piccolo has barely surpassed Frieza by the androids arc, I don't think he'd outclass him by a large enough margin to take Cooler.

- Using the info Super gives us Base Vegeta should easily destroy Buutenks. Piccolo shocks the other Z fighters when he powers up, so this suggests he's improved a lot, then Base Gohan is stated to be above Piccolo, and since Piccolo is likely close to the same league as Perfect Cell by this point, SSJ Gohan would be nearly 50x Perfect Cell, by my numbers this would actually put him above his Ultimate state, so let's say his SSJ tops out at his Buu Arc Ultimate level. Now Gohan is outclassed by First Form Frieza, so at minimum Frieza's already Buutenks level in his first form. Then Frieza goes into his final form and still ends up weaker than the Base Saiyans, so this suggests that they could easily thrash even Buuhan.

[Doctor.]

Boo arc hypothetical Gokhan vs Super Saiyan God Goku

[TheUltimateNinja]

Boo arc hypothetical Gokhan vs Super Saiyan God Goku

There's no way to predict how strong a hypothetical Gokhan would be, all we know is that he could beat Buu in base.

[Zamasu55]

Here are some fights:

- Android #13 vs. SSJ Future Gohan.
- Cooler (final form) vs. Piccolo (Android arc).
- SSJ3 Son Goku (Boo arc) vs. Oob (beginning of GT).
- Gotenks-Boo vs. Vegeta (base, Resurrection F).

1. Ssj Future Gohan was about as strong as Future 17 and Future 18. As Trunks said, they are weaker than their present counterparts. So, 13 is weaker than Present 18 since Ssj Goku, who couldn't have done crap against 17 and 18, put up a good fight against him, I guess Ssj Future Gohan might actually win.

2. Final form Cooler has to be slightly stronger than Final form Frieza. So, since Piccolo's power level is probably around 90 million or so, I say he wins after a tough fight.

3. GT Base Goku > Uub = Kid Buu = Ssj3 Goku (Buu saga).
Apart from this, Uub has no stamina issues unlike Goku so he wins.

4. Base form Frieza literally one-shotted Ssj Gohan (ROF), who's probably as strong as Mystic Gohan based on what he said during the fight with Ginyu. So, if Base form Frieza managed to one-shot with a Mystic Gohan-tier warrior, something that even Buutenks couldn't do (he was leagues about Goku's son but could have never one-shotted him), I guess Base form Frieza (ROF) > Buutenks at the very least.
This means that BG Vegeta does to Buutenks the same thing he did to Ginyu.

[Ki Breaker]

Boo arc hypothetical Gokhan vs Super Saiyan God Goku

A gokhan would be extremely strong, still I don't see him beating god goku, goku could at least have thought of fusing with gohan otherwise, gohan was still ultimate back then

[Saiyan007]

Boo arc hypothetical Gokhan vs Super Saiyan God Goku

Super Saiyan God destroys him with a casual tap.Super Saiyan God brought Goku to a level he didn't think was possible.It brought him to a level where he can destroy Universe 7 while still not using his full power.I can't see any hypothetical fusion in the boo arc even coming close to Godku.The boost Goku got would quite frankly enable anyone in the DB manga no matter the arc to even beat even a hypothetical ssj3 Boo arc Vegito.

[DanielSSJ]

-There's a fairly sizable gap between Grade 2 and SSJ2. around 33-66% depending on who you ask, and by my numbers Piccolo has barely surpassed Frieza by the androids arc, I don't think he'd outclass him by a large enough margin to take Cooler.

- Using the info Super gives us Base Vegeta should easily destroy Buutenks. Piccolo shocks the other Z fighters when he powers up, so this suggests he's improved a lot, then Base Gohan is stated to be above Piccolo, and since Piccolo is likely close to the same league as Perfect Cell by this point, SSJ Gohan would be nearly 50x Perfect Cell, by my numbers this would actually put him above his Ultimate state, so let's say his SSJ tops out at his Buu Arc Ultimate level. Now Gohan is outclassed by First Form Frieza, so at minimum Frieza's already Buutenks level in his first form. Then Frieza goes into his final form and still ends up weaker than the Base Saiyans, so this suggests that they could easily thrash even Buuhan.

Grade 3 then. Same principle applies.

I'm mainly going by the fairly consistent power hierarchy presented in the movies. Besides, there was a whole lot of Gohan lamenting over how rusty he's gotten in the TV version of Super, so I highly doubt that his Super Saiyan form is as strong or stronger than his previous Ultimate state.

Boo arc hypothetical Gokhan vs Super Saiyan God Goku

I would put a Goku/Gohan fusion at a lower level than Vegetto for a few reasons. Not only does Gohan have a lot more power at his disposal than Goku, he also has it all available in his base form, whereas Goku gets the vast majority of his strength through transformations. Hence a hypothetical Kuhan would have a mega-powerful base form, but his Super Saiyan form would only double or triple his strength instead of the usual 50-fold increase. In the end, Vegetto would end up the superior fusion, and since Goku said that Fusion wouldn't work against Beerus, Kuhan probably wouldn't be up there in the God tier.

[Noah]

The boost Goku got would quite frankly enable anyone in the DB manga no matter the arc to even beat even a hypothetical ssj3 Boo arc Vegito.

You're making a lot of assumptions right now

[Saiyan007]

The boost Goku got would quite frankly enable anyone in the DB manga no matter the arc to even beat even a hypothetical ssj3 Boo arc Vegito.

You're making a lot of assumptions right now

How?

If the god boost took Goku who at his best could destroy a few solar systems too someone who can destroy the physical universe the kai realm and the other world while still not using his full power I fail to see how anyone with this boost isn't casually destroying the DB Manga cast with the upmost of ease.

[Noah]

How?

If the god boost took Goku who at his best could destroy a few solar systems too someone who can destroy the physical universe the kai realm and the other world while still not using his full power I fail to see how anyone with this boost isn't casually destroying the DB Manga cast with the upmost of ease.

Feats are meaningless after the Freeza arc, mate. Characters introduced later in the Android arc to be stronger than SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza should have the power to destroy planets much more easily than Freeza and yet they don't do so. But to give you a recent example: see SSJ God was capable of destroy the entire universe by exchanging some blows, okay but why SSJ Blue that is in fact a stronger transformation didn't have such feats? How the heck Earth or better yet the whole universe didn't perish in the battle against Golden Freeza? All this thing is inconsistent.

My point is that I don't see SSJ God Goku being leagues above a hypothetical Boo arc SSJ3 Vegetto just by the feats presented in Super that were absent in the actual BoG movie.

[Saiyan007]

Feats are meaningless after the Freeza arc, mate.

Says who exactly?

Characters introduced later in the Android arc to be stronger than SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza should have the power to destroy planets much more easily than Freeza and yet they don't do so.

Ki Control I thought this was fairly obvious.

But to give you a recent example: see SSJ God was capable of destroy the entire universe by exchanging some blows, okay but why SSJ Blue that is in fact a stronger transformation didn't have such feats?

Goku learned how to cancel out the shockwaves.Supreme Kai and the narrator make it extremely clear that they can throw around universal energy without destroying the universe.

How the heck Earth or better yet the whole universe didn't perish in the battle against Golden Freeza? All this thing is inconsistent.

It's not consistent when you realize even when the shockwaves ended and Goku and Beerus got even stronger they didn't destroy the universe.Again they can throw around massive amounts of power without destroying the universe.

My point is that I don't see SSJ God Goku being leagues above a hypothetical Boo arc SSJ3 Vegetto just by the feats presented in Super that were absent in the actual BoG movie.

Well you don't I do.Besdes Toriyama said that the reason so much destruction wasn't in the BOG movie was because of the natural disaster that happened in 2013.But I don't see what the movie has to do with anything when it's been retconned by the show/manga and considering the manga has this insane feat as well ift's pretty clear what Toriyama envisions on how strong he wants the Gods to be.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Noah]

Says who exactly?

The story itself. As characters stating that "x's technique can destroy the planet" becomes redundant and irrelevant when its repeated so many times after the Freeza arc.

Ki Control I thought this was fairly obvious.

So you may say that androids had this Ki Control too?

Goku learned how to cancel out the shockwaves.Supreme Kai and the narrator make it extremely clear that they can throw around universal energy without destroying the universe. It's not consistent when you realize even when the shockwaves ended and Goku and Beerus got even stronger they didn't destroy the universe.Again they can throw around massive amounts of power without destroying the universe.

Okay Goku learned how control his massive power to avoid destroying the whole universe, but why would Freeza? I mean even if he didn't want destroy the universe, he could pretty much destroy the planet from the start and f*** Goku up as he can survive in the space. But other thing that I might have a theory about is how they use Ki Blasts to damage each other but when deflected they don't cause major destruction to the planet, probably because they nullify its power when deflected, but still kinda confusing.

Well you don't I do.Besdes Toriyama said that the reason so much destruction wasn't in the BOG movie was because of the natural disaster that happened in 2013.But I don't see what the movie has to do with anything when it's been retconned by the show/manga and considering the manga has this insane feat as well ift's pretty clear what Toriyama envisions on how strong he wants the Gods to be.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

My point still stands as even Goku assuming that maybe fusion wouldn't be enough to match Beerus power (and in the end SSJ God didn't either), he never experienced the full extend of Vegetto full power at time as it wasn't necessary to show it. That's just my view, that SSJ God is indeed stronger than a fully powered Vegetto but not by a huge amount.

[Ki Breaker]

Baby vs Watagash
No one else around, only power allowed to use is possession

[Saiyan007]

The story itself. As characters stating that "x's technique can destroy the planet" becomes redundant and irrelevant when its repeated so many times after the Freeza arc.

How is that redundant?All that does is reinforce how strong the are.Heck Cell said he could destroy the solar system,Goku even said if Buu wasn't stopped he could kiss the universe goodbye.

So you may say that androids had this Ki Control too?

I don't see why they wouldn't have control over their own powers

Okay Goku learned how control his massive power to avoid destroying the whole universe, but why would Freeza? I mean even if he didn't want destroy the universe, he could pretty much destroy the planet from the start and f*** Goku up as he can survive in the space.

Freeza's plan wasn't to destroy the planet from the start remember back in the pre android saga King Cold recommended Freeza that they could destroy the planet from space but Freeza wanted to fight Goku on earth instead.It's the same thing here,Freeza wanted Goku to suffer first then he would kill him he only blew up the planet because he had no choice

My point still stands as even Goku assuming that maybe fusion wouldn't be enough to match Beerus power (and in the end SSJ God didn't either), he never experienced the full extend of Vegetto full power at time as it wasn't necessary to show it. That's just my view, that SSJ God is indeed stronger than a fully powered Vegetto but not by a huge amount.

He wouldn't need to experience Veggetto's full power he was apart of him he would know how strong he is.The fact of the matter is Goku while barely getting used to the SSJG's power was good enough for him he didn't even think about fusing because it would be redundant.SSJG is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Veggetto by a huge amount because Goku was satisfied with fighting Beerus as a SSJG and not once did he think about fusing with Vegeta even after he gained his god powers and that's before he even powered up,just giving his powers a test run made him conclude that this is the best option to fight Beerus with.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm mainly going by the fairly consistent power hierarchy presented in the movies. Besides, there was a whole lot of Gohan lamenting over how rusty he's gotten in the TV version of Super, so I highly doubt that his Super Saiyan form is as strong or stronger than his previous Ultimate state.

That was just Gohan fanboys whinging about how he seems weaker. Anyway, Piccolo is definitely at least 1/50th of Ultimate Gohan by that point so given that Base Gohan is above him, he should easily be able to reach that level with SSJ.

[Gog]

How?

If the god boost took Goku who at his best could destroy a few solar systems too someone who can destroy the physical universe the kai realm and the other world while still not using his full power I fail to see how anyone with this boost isn't casually destroying the DB Manga cast with the upmost of ease.

Feats are meaningless after the Freeza arc, mate. Characters introduced later in the Android arc to be stronger than SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza should have the power to destroy planets much more easily than Freeza and yet they don't do so. But to give you a recent example: see SSJ God was capable of destroy the entire universe by exchanging some blows, okay but why SSJ Blue that is in fact a stronger transformation didn't have such feats? How the heck Earth or better yet the whole universe didn't perish in the battle against Golden Freeza? All this thing is inconsistent.

My point is that I don't see SSJ God Goku being leagues above a hypothetical Boo arc SSJ3 Vegetto just by the feats presented in Super that were absent in the actual BoG movie.

I'm sorry to say it, but feats are the greatest way to support strength. Then you have characters stating that they can do such a thing, and then you have power scaling

[DSB]

Jaco vs Demon King Piccolo

Jaco vs Raditz

[Ki Breaker]

Jaco vs Demon King Piccolo

Jaco vs Raditz

You are overestimating Jaco, he isn't that strong, he loses in both cases

[Noah]

How is that redundant?All that does is reinforce how strong the are.Heck Cell said he could destroy the solar system,Goku even said if Buu wasn't stopped he could kiss the universe goodbye.

It is because it's not a impressive feat anymore. And you said yourself, if even Kid Boo was capable of destroying the whole universe, I don't see how SSJ God having the same capacity is impressive either.

I don't see why they wouldn't have control over their own powers

So just to keep messing around for two decades? As they could wipe the entire humanity including Trunks?

Freeza's plan wasn't to destroy the planet from the start remember back in the pre android saga King Cold recommended Freeza that they could destroy the planet from space but Freeza wanted to fight Goku on earth instead.It's the same thing here,Freeza wanted Goku to suffer first then he would kill him he only blew up the planet because he had no choice

When I said destroying the planet from the start it wasn't by the time Freeza landed on Earth (RoF) and yes when he was fighting Goku, he want make him suffer? Okay, Goku wouldn't die so easily by the planet destruction, he could still hurt him to death while he's agonizing trying to breath in the vacuum of the space.

He wouldn't need to experience Veggetto's full power he was apart of him he would know how strong he is.The fact of the matter is Goku while barely getting used to the SSJG's power was good enough for him he didn't even think about fusing because it would be redundant.SSJG is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Veggetto by a huge amount because Goku was satisfied with fighting Beerus as a SSJG and not once did he think about fusing with Vegeta even after he gained his god powers and that's before he even powered up,just giving his powers a test run made him conclude that this is the best option to fight Beerus with.

There's no evidence of that. As Vegetto is a new being, even if he's half Goku, he was born that day so it's pretty fair to assume that while a Super Saiyan was more than enough to deal with Majin Boo, he might probably don't know the extend of his full power as he never needed to use it. As for Goku didn't even think about fusing with Vegeta later, well considering Gogeta is not a part of this context and they don't know yet that Potara fusion could be undone with DBs or that is temporary for mortals (huge bullsh**) of course they wouldn't want to be stick together forever again.