Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Gog]

This is kinda random, but does anyone else think that during the whole "make into a cyborg" thing he did to Lazuli, Gero made her a hermaphrodite? It just sounds like something a crazy scientist might do.

No, that fact is never once stated, referenced or implied in the original manga, or in any of the guide books.

Would make an interesting fan fiction though

[Noah]

This is kinda random, but does anyone else think that during the whole "make into a cyborg" thing he did to Lazuli, Gero made her a hermaphrodite? It just sounds like something a crazy scientist might do.

Er... No. But I always imagined Gero had sexually abused her once in a while thus making her hatred towards him being something more than just making her an android. And this is consistent with DB trope of old geezers being dirty perverts


Anyway, is this the most recent pic we have of Toriyama Akira?

[Gog]

This is kinda random, but does anyone else think that during the whole "make into a cyborg" thing he did to Lazuli, Gero made her a hermaphrodite? It just sounds like something a crazy scientist might do.

Er... No. But I always imagined Gero had sexually abused her once in a while thus making her hatred towards him being something more than just making her an android. And this is consistent with DB trope of old geezers being dirty perverts


Anyway, is this the most recent pic we have of Toriyama Akira?

No , this is the most recent picture of him:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Noah]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Very funny, mate

[Gog]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Very funny, mate

My type of humor always lights up the house

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Badum tss

[Nejishiki]

*dunk*

I don't think Freeza suppressing a large amount of power was ever under question. I merely suggested that it wasn't as difficult as you thought it was. Does the narrative require his suppression method to be as complicated as you're concluding? I don't believe so. Freeza's motivation was control. That's his own explanation for "why". On my end, I'm not sure what's wrong with that when you take it at face value.

Dragon World is pretty unique in regard to its internal logic. Despite that fact, I can't argue in support that his transformations need to be explained anymore than Super Saiyan making its user glow golden. Elaboration is appreciated, but it falls under the superficial tidbits section. The dynamics of the original story aren't changed from knowing this information. As long as the established rules aren't broken, I don't have a problem the mechanics being absent from the audience. I suspect we may not see eye-to-eye there.

Gohan: "Tr-Transforms?! ...He transforms...?!"
Kuririn: "Vegeta, Wh-What's going on...?!"
Vegeta: "There are some beings who change their shape as the need arises..."
Vegeta: "For camouflage... To conserve energy..."
Freeza: "Or, in my case..."
Freeza: "Because I become so powerful that I can't keep myself under control!"
Freeza: "Heh heh heh..."

Are you misinterpreting difficulty of control with ease of invention? They're not necessarily related. I can return six manuscripts quickly but it doesn't mean I'll quickly fill them. I can lock animals in travel cages but that doesn't mean they're tamed. In other words, simple actions don't make for complete, complex understanding. Your stance seems based on A) your perception of what's efficient based on impressions & B) what you would do in somebody else's place & claiming their actions as foolhardy.

If that's true, you're not wearing their shoes but ordering new ones. It's now a matter of, "But I wouldn't do that" instead of "What would Freeza do?". I provided support for Freeza's unique circumstances in my previous post. For the sake of reiteration, Freeza expounds that he created his transformations because he grew so powerful. The narrative doesn't paint an image that it's naturally available to him from birth. Additionally, the enhanced Freeza who invaded Earth was stronger. It's not exactly accurate to claim he's "significantly weaker". Future Trunks' ability to easily dispatch the two doesn't particularly make anyone "pathetic". Cold especially, because he's inferior to his son's might.

Cold: "I don't care about the Earthlings, but we must stamp out the Super Saiyan... no matter what."
Cold: "Our clan must always be the most powerful in the cosmos."
Freeza: "With the two of us together it will be no trouble."
Freeza: "I could probably do it by myself... since I've grown even more powerful..."

Furthermore, there's precedence in characters transforming when feeling threatened or being allowed to transform when the feat is established. I can't find convincing evidence that Cold & Chilled were somehow the exceptions. Admittedly, that's a generalization yet it's puzzling to insist the other side of the argument and, in my opinion, paint characters worse than they're intended to be portrayed. Placing blame on Future Trunks or Bardock is flawed, to say the least.

In regard to Frost, he's a native of Universe 6. He doesn't hold influence against his Universe 7 neighbor. Knowing that, Freeza's consistency isn't harmed by his existence. He's of another world already. Considering the narrative, his last form is not only natural but deliberately hidden, too. Do recall that his true face is used to enable war while his suppressed face is diplomatic. In his circumstance, the "Assault Form" is his public "fighting spirit". After all, Cabba was ignorant of his true appearance while his enemies weren't.

If I were to speculate, I'd say he's a special iceflake, too. The lack of details don't help his case. However, with Frost's concern of keeping up appearances, it's a bit unlikely that his entire race was in cahoots with his schemes. If his race had a reputation of trickery & hiding themselves, he'd easily be outed. That seems to support morphing isn't normal for his species instead of the opposite, especially with his "Assault Form" treated as highly as it is.

Shen Long revived the enhanced Freeza as the pieces Future Trunks cut him into. I was referring to his body's revival in the tank. He was "rebuilt" into his "classic" body by his forces. That's my fault for not being clear & specific. My overall point is that there's no evidence for Toriyama "forgetting" anything in relation to how Freeza's old forms worked. He goes through the trouble of claiming the Golden power is an "evolution" instead of a form of suppression. Concerning the "sleep" comment, Freeza says that he can't have a normal night of sleep until he kills the Saiyans. That relates to my paragraph about Freeza feeling disgusted that he needed to train to make his (in a literal sense) dreams a reality. I'd appreciate if you didn't accuse me of going into "fan fiction territory" when I'm using Freeza's words as my source!

You're free to dismiss "Freeza's race" but that is not an excuse for spreading misinformation. I don't mean to be harsh but I don't expect that level of quality here. ^^;; I supported my case about the inaccurate source. FUNimation's interpretation of Dragon Ball Z very specifically refers to the people in my image as "Arcosians". Unfortunately, there's no alternate reading to be found there. It's simply not Freeza's race, even if you want to acknowledge that terminology.

The brackets below are answers that I felt were brief & didn't need elaboration. I'll provide it upon request though. In general, anything about transformations is provided above.[spoiler]["Three-step guide" is not a literal phrase. I didn't think issue with be found there. That's my method of expressing Freeza created three transformations. Thanks! ]

[I addressed Chilled's competence via the umbrella (not literal! ) he shares with Cold. I don't think I need to essentially rewrite the same thing.]

[One of my comments were misinterpreted: I merely stated the possibility of a mutated individual in Chilled's era. I don't necessarily support the notion but I'll fairly provide said possibility.]

[Another misread comment: I never implied Freeza's natural form could be knocked back into his first, second, & third forms. I'm confused why you thought I said that.]

[Misunderstood comment, probably: I never claimed Freeza had difficulty with anything below "100%". I said he ran into his old problem in regard to reaching that apex.][/spoiler]

[Gog]

This is some of the most fun I've had

*dunk*

I don't think Freeza suppressing a large amount of power was ever under question. I merely suggested that it wasn't as difficult as you thought it was. Does the narrative require his suppression method to be as complicated as you're concluding? I don't believe so. Freeza's motivation was control. That's his own explanation for "why". On my end, I'm not sure what's wrong with that when you take it at face value.

But the narrative of dragon ball is one that can be poked with a stick and fall down (especially with the cell, and android arc but this is really off topic, and I will never bring this up again) But if Freeza wants control then why would he bother with making these forms? Its simply easier to just lower his power in his true form to the point where he won't bust some heads, just by moving.

Or mastering it but this is Freeza where talking about.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dragon World is pretty unique in regard to its internal logic. Despite that fact, I can't argue in support that his transformations need to be explained anymore than Super Saiyan making its user glow golden. Elaboration is appreciated, but it falls under the superficial tidbits section. The dynamics of the original story aren't changed from knowing this information. As long as the established rules aren't broken, I don't have a problem the mechanics being absent from the audience. I suspect we may not see eye-to-eye there.

(Pardon me but I do need to break this up into smaller chunks, hope you don't mind )

Yeah I really can't argue with most of what you have to say here, elaboration is the butter on bread that everyone loves, and it is nice to be elaborated on that. Guess I caught you off guard there he, he, he...

Gohan: "Tr-Transforms?! ...He transforms...?!"
Kuririn: "Vegeta, Wh-What's going on...?!"
Vegeta: "There are some beings who change their shape as the need arises..."
Vegeta: "For camouflage... To conserve energy..."
Freeza: "Or, in my case..."
Freeza: "Because I become so powerful that I can't keep myself under control!"
Freeza: "Heh heh heh..."

Are you misinterpreting difficulty of control with ease of invention? They're not necessarily related. I can return six manuscripts quickly but it doesn't mean I'll quickly fill them. I can lock animals in travel cages but that doesn't mean they're tamed. In other words, simple actions don't make for complete, complex understanding. Your stance seems based on A) your perception of what's efficient based on impressions & B) what you would do in somebody else's place & claiming their actions as foolhardy.

Before I start here, Freeza is known to lie, he does claim to be the strongest in the universe but he knows of beings like Beerus and Buu, so he could simply be not telling the truth to make himself sound more impressive, and intimidating. Which isn't out of character for Freeza, because that does sound incredibly impressive, and intimidating.



If that's true, you're not wearing their shoes but ordering new ones. It's now a matter of, "But I wouldn't do that" instead of "What would Freeza do?". I provided support for Freeza's unique circumstances in my previous post. For the sake of reiteration, Freeza expounds that he created his transformations because he grew so powerful. The narrative doesn't paint an image that it's naturally available to him from birth.

But your comparing the ability of ordering new shoes to creating three whole new forms, that look drastically different, and suppress your power, actually on the topic of the forms, lets say I admit he made the forms. Why would he make the forms so different looking from his 'true' form? What would be the point of that why not just make three forms that look identical to his finial form? Also how did he 'order' the shoes. As in how did he make three whole entire forms that he apparently custom built.

Still waiting on that one.

Additionally, the enhanced Freeza who invaded Earth was stronger. It's not exactly accurate to claim he's "significantly weaker". Future Trunks' ability to easily dispatch the two doesn't particularly make anyone "pathetic".

Except it is implied that by Gohan that Future Trunks is as strong as Goku was on namek. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-331/.

Cold especially, because he's inferior to his son's might.

Cold: "I don't care about the Earthlings, but we must stamp out the Super Saiyan... no matter what."
Cold: "Our clan must always be the most powerful in the cosmos."
Freeza: "With the two of us together it will be no trouble."
Freeza: "I could probably do it by myself... since I've grown even more powerful..."

Furthermore, there's precedence in characters transforming when feeling threatened or being allowed to transform when the feat is established.

I can't find convincing evidence that Cold & Chilled were somehow the exceptions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5g2z2ZVrVw skip to 7:10, and just watch it.

Have you watched it yet? Good, Chilled was offered Millions of opportunity's to transform, he was even afraid of Bardock, and saw how his attacks were doing no damage. Yet he didn't smirk and announce that this isn't even his finial form and proceed to transform into his finial form. He just got his ass kicked by Bardock while making no attempt to transform.

Chilled. Cannot. Transform. All the evidence points to that fact, there isn't any evidence to suggest other wise, because that is all we've ever seen of Chilled, and ever will see.

Admittedly, that's a generalization yet it's puzzling to insist the other side of the argument and, in my opinion, paint characters worse than they're intended to be portrayed. Placing blame on Future Trunks or Bardock is flawed, to say the least.

No, Cold at least believed that he and Freeza was the best, and you can make that an argument for why he didn't transform, (besides his second form being his finial form) and could never accept that fact until the end. If you believe that Chilled can transform than he is a fool.

In regard to Frost, he's a native of Universe 6. He doesn't hold influence against his Universe 7 neighbor. Knowing that, Freeza's consistency isn't harmed by his existence. He's of another world already. Considering the narrative, his last form is not only natural but deliberately hidden, too. Do recall that his true face is used to enable war while his suppressed face is diplomatic. In his circumstance, the "Assault Form" is his public "fighting spirit". After all, Cabba was ignorant of his true appearance while his enemies weren't.

yes except there is nothing to suggest he's all that different than his neighbor Freezer, besides the pants, and the feet (rather irksome design choices in my opinion) Its just like the sayians, they are pretty much the same to their universe seven counterparts, right down to the super Saiyan form, their transformations.

If I were to speculate, I'd say he's a special iceflake

Your puns are just too chilled for me

too. The lack of details don't help his case. However, with Frost's concern of keeping up appearances, it's a bit unlikely that his entire race was in cahoots with his schemes. If his race had a reputation of trickery & hiding themselves, he'd easily be outed. That seems to support morphing isn't normal for his species instead of the opposite, especially with his "Assault Form" treated as highly as it is.

Yeah the lack of details really do hinder this discussion, but to be fair, why wouldn't it be the same for universe 7, we only do ever get to see the royal family, and even then only two of them actually transform.

Shen Long revived the enhanced Freeza as the pieces Future Trunks cut him into. I was referring to his body's revival in the tank. He was "rebuilt" into his "classic" body by his forces. That's my fault for not being clear & specific.

Don't worry we all stumble. Not really worth commenting here except for the fact that the forms, are similar to super Saiyan, in that they advance the user to greater heights of strength, but unlike super Saiyan, the change is so drastic it is a permanent change, unless the user wills it of course. Or the PTO used hormones to decrease Freeza to his natural state of being.

My overall point is that there's no evidence for Toriyama "forgetting" anything in relation to how Freeza's old forms worked. He goes through the trouble of claiming the Golden power is an "evolution" instead of a form of suppression.

But I never once said that the three forms where evolutions, like super Saiyan, the form is not an evolution it is a mutation , Freeza and King Cold didn't evolve the power, but rather the ability to transform was a mutation in the genes, that only very few would actually possess. The ultimate evolution is just a form that Freeza evolved, that is literally all that its stated to be.

Concerning the "sleep" comment, Freeza says that he can't have a normal night of sleep until he kills the Saiyans. That relates to my paragraph about Freeza feeling disgusted that he needed to train to make his (in a literal sense) dreams a reality. I'd appreciate if you didn't accuse me of going into "fan fiction territory" when I'm using Freeza's words as my source!

Sorry But i misread you, please don't hold it against me.

You're free to dismiss "Freeza's race" but that is not an excuse for spreading misinformation. I don't mean to be harsh but I don't expect that level of quality here. ^^;; I supported my case about the inaccurate source. FUNimation's interpretation of Dragon Ball Z very specifically refers to the people in my image as "Arcosians". Unfortunately, there's no alternate reading to be found there. It's simply not Freeza's race, even if you want to acknowledge that terminology.

Yeah I know, but, but it is the best that i've got, besides Frost Demon, which sounds more like a slur than anything, when I refer to them as Arcosians it's just the best I've got, and I don't have any second options, besides a literal fan name.

The brackets below are answers that I felt were brief & didn't need elaboration. I'll provide it upon request though. In general, anything about transformations is provided above.[spoiler]["Three-step guide" is not a literal phrase. I didn't think issue with be found there. That's my method of expressing Freeza created three transformations. Thanks! ]

[I addressed Chilled's competence via the umbrella (not literal! ) he shares with Cold. I don't think I need to essentially rewrite the same thing.]

Okay then.

[One of my comments were misinterpreted: I merely stated the possibility of a mutated individual in Chilled's era. I don't necessarily support the notion but I'll fairly provide said possibility.]

Nothing to add here

[Another misread comment: I never implied Freeza's natural form could be knocked back into his first, second, & third forms. I'm confused why you thought I said that.]

Yeah, i'm just stating that when they transform its not something that can be reversed with out them wanting to.

[Misunderstood comment, probably: I never claimed Freeza had difficulty with anything below "100%". I said he ran into his old problem in regard to reaching that apex.][/spoiler][/quote]

Yeah, misread that as well

[Ki Breaker]

Your mental image of fan's of different characters?
I have seen many people say Vegeta fans are always like this or gohan fans are complaining a lot..

Even though it generalization and what not, let's not kid ourselves once and speak what we truly think

[DasMuse]

Hey guys. I didn't know where else to ask this and didn't want to make a thread soooo...

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me if this statue is legit? I know it says it's numbered out of 200 but I can't find info on that studio anywhere and I'd like to order it, just not on ebay. I've been screwed over on too many ebay pre-orders to risk it for a statue like this. If this is legit and not just a custom one-off, if anyone knows where I can order this outside of ebay, i'd greatly appreciate it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dragon-Ball ... 2200996081

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Hey guys. I didn't know where else to ask this and didn't want to make a thread soooo...

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me if this statue is legit? I know it says it's numbered out of 200 but I can't find info on that studio anywhere and I'd like to order it, just not on ebay. I've been screwed over on too many ebay pre-orders to risk it for a statue like this. If this is legit and not just a custom one-off, if anyone knows where I can order this outside of ebay, i'd greatly appreciate it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dragon-Ball ... 2200996081

Do not know too much about resins but I'm pretty most resin statutes are made third party so technically they are custom made. But either way I would be hesitant to purchase them on eBay too especially for that price and a pre order.

[ekrolo2]

So, you know how Jaco, with the Galactic King's permission, repays doctor Brief and Bulma with the blueprints of his ship's artificial gravity device and then leaves, with doctor Brief paying Omori 150,000,000,000 yen (100,000,000,000 zeny) as a thank you for helping Tights and getting him artificial gravity technology? I suspect this is supposed to be a way of explaining why Goku's Namek spaceship has the gravity device for training.... So why don't more people already use this? Why isn't Freeza's Empire using this kind of tech? Or how about people who want to fight Freeza? It isn't exactly rocket science to figure out that "punching air + high gravity = good strength gains" in this universe.

This isn't even like Freeza and his empire lacking ki sense as that's some unique, mystical technique, they're very tech-based so it would stand to reason that someone would come up with an idea of "lets fuck with gravity for training!". Or is literally everyone in Freeza's Empire a total, mentally deficient pants shitting moron rivaling Super Goku?

[Gog]

So, you know how Jaco, with the Galactic King's permission, repays doctor Brief and Bulma with the blueprints of his ship's artificial gravity device and then leaves, with doctor Brief paying Omori 150,000,000,000 yen (100,000,000,000 zeny) as a thank you for helping Tights and getting him artificial gravity technology? I suspect this is supposed to be a way of explaining why Goku's Namek spaceship has the gravity device for training.... So why don't more people already use this? Why isn't Freeza's Empire using this kind of tech? Or how about people who want to fight Freeza? It isn't exactly rocket science to figure out that "punching air + high gravity = good strength gains" in this universe.

This isn't even like Freeza and his empire lacking ki sense as that's some unique, mystical technique, they're very tech-based so it would stand to reason that someone would come up with an idea of "lets fuck with gravity for training!". Or is literally everyone in Freeza's Empire a total, mentally deficient pants shitting moron rivaling Super Goku?

No, no, no. Don't assume that their intelligence rivals Goku, that is an insulting accusation. I like the idea, that they do have gravity training, its just that we never actually see them use it, because its in the main ships, in the training sections of them.

[ekrolo2]

No, no, no. Don't assume that their intelligence rivals Goku, that is an insulting accusation. I like the idea, that they do have gravity training, its just that we never actually see them use it, because its in the main ships, in the training sections of them.

Here's the thing: no one mentions this ever and considering the fact how pants shittingly weak Freeza's ENTIRE army is even before he dies, I find it really hard to believe they have gravity training period. The Ginyu Force don't even attribute their power to any training, they just say "we're mutants!".
This is almost as stupid as Freeza knowing what Super Saiyan God is (but Vegeta doesn't) throughout the ENTIRE Namek arc and never even implying to it, even as an insult or taunt to Vegeta. This is another fine example of Toriyama trying to be clever and forgetting the fact he's about as good with continuity as Japan is with the concept of pacing: not at all.

[Gog]

No, no, no. Don't assume that their intelligence rivals Goku, that is an insulting accusation. I like the idea, that they do have gravity training, its just that we never actually see them use it, because its in the main ships, in the training sections of them.

Here's the thing: no one mentions this ever and considering the fact how pants shittingly weak Freeza's ENTIRE army is even before he dies, I find it really hard to believe they have gravity training period. The Ginyu Force don't even attribute their power to any training, they just say "we're mutants!".
This is almost as stupid as Freeza knowing what Super Saiyan God is (but Vegeta doesn't) throughout the ENTIRE Namek arc and never even implying to it, even as an insult or taunt to Vegeta. This is another fine example of Toriyama trying to be clever and forgetting the fact he's about as good with continuity as Japan is with the concept of pacing: not at all.

But Freeza's army isn't pant shittingly weak, there all more powerful than Raditz, and the Ginyu force probably believed that they didn't actually need to train, because their mutants. Yeah the fact that Freeza knows super Saiyan god is a pretty stupid fact, and I do believe that Toriyama needs a man with a list, full of facts about his franchise, so when he does something like that.

The man patiently reminds him that has never happened

[ekrolo2]

But Freeza's army isn't pant shittingly weak, there all more powerful than Raditz, and the Ginyu force probably believed that they didn't actually need to train, because their mutants. Yeah the fact that Freeza knows super Saiyan god is a pretty stupid fact, and I do believe that Toriyama needs a man with a list, full of facts about his franchise, so when he does something like that.

The man patiently reminds him that has never happened

They're arguably stronger than Raditz if Krillin and Gohan at 1500 can easily beat them and then Namekian fighters of 3000 murder them easily. The Ginyu's also don't attribute any of their strength to training or anyone elses' strength to training. When Ginyu hears how Goku's power is good enough to school most of his men, his first reaction is "Yup, he's definitely a mutant like us! There's nothing else that can possibly explain this!".

[Gog]

But Freeza's army isn't pant shittingly weak, there all more powerful than Raditz, and the Ginyu force probably believed that they didn't actually need to train, because their mutants. Yeah the fact that Freeza knows super Saiyan god is a pretty stupid fact, and I do believe that Toriyama needs a man with a list, full of facts about his franchise, so when he does something like that.

The man patiently reminds him that has never happened

They're arguably stronger than Raditz if Krillin and Gohan at 1500 can easily beat them and then Namekian fighters of 3000 murder them easily. The Ginyu's also don't attribute any of their strength to training or anyone elses' strength to training. When Ginyu hears how Goku's power is good enough to school most of his men, his first reaction is "Yup, he's definitely a mutant like us! There's nothing else that can possibly explain this!".

I'm just trying to justify them not being morons, its really hard to do that when you keep tearing apart my arguments

[Soppa Saia People]

Mike was on an episode of Did you Know Gaming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaZk8IeWzsg

[Nejishiki]

*khiiin*

Well, he probably found it simpler to suppress himself. We have his word for why he did what he did, not the process nor why he fancied certain designs (I provided a valid guess for his second-to-last form though). It's why I believe there's nothing wrong with taking it at face value & elaborated that the changes he made fall under superficial details, which doesn't affect the story if it's known. I hear you when you ask why he doesn't keep himself below "100%" in his natural form.

The likely answer for that, using the simplest assumption, is that he felt he shouldn't leave that part of himself "on". It may feel mostly okay to him but he likely finds it troublesome to keep from destroying things, relatively speaking. It's not as if he knows "traditional ki raising", just suppressing & releasing power all at once (as other members of his forces accomplished). The closest form of Namekian ki raising he did was through his percentages. It rounds back to my opening assumption though. It's likely the lowest percentage he was capable of was too wild for the west. As noted, by his own account, he felt he was growing too powerful & out of control. That just happened to be the solution he came up with on his own (probably because, as I'm echoing, it was easier to bother with). From here, I'm afraid it's apparent you may simply not like this element no matter the perception. That's fine with me. I can't support the notion that characters are outright lying without the narrative supporting such a conclusion (as in, one lie is equal to lies everywhere despite the statements being correct in context). It's too messy & leads away from the point. I do feel as if there was merit behind his motives & I provided them. It's not inherently baseless.

Future Trunks' comparison to Goku was thanks to his ki feeling intense, as characteristic of a Super Saiyan's presence. For the record & to be specific with the phrasing, Dragon Ball tends to utilize specific stock phrases for its strength comparisons. Instead of claiming Future Trunks had the same amount of ki Goku possessed, he used the more generic "same ki" statement. In context, it's in reference to Super Saiyan's aura rather than a specific battle power reading. It's such a minor detail but I assure you it's an important distinction. In any case, my original message said the duo wasn't pathetic just because Future Trunks was better. "The Gap", as commonly coined in this community, isn't the heart of matters.

You may have misread me. I said "Golden" was cited to be an evolution (again, not in a literal sense as evolution is to advancement). I didn't use that in reference to anything else, least of all his suppressed forms which I've established beforehand in previous posts. Regarding Chilled, my position was that he couldn't transform from the start. I'm afraid I don't feel the need to address that what with me never arguing that particular point. I've supported Freeza being the lone being capable in his universe.

[The shoe comparison isn't meant to be literal. I know they can't be compared with morphing bodies. The purpose was to illustrate the thought process I shared.]

[Bansho64]

Does anyone else think Nozawa did a lot better on Kai version of the Buu arc than she does currently on Super? In my opinion, her Goku and her Gohan were a lot better there. Of course, it has been almost 3 years since then.

[Gog]

*khiiin*

Well, he probably found it simpler to suppress himself. We have his word for why he did what he did, not the process nor why he fancied certain designs (I provided a valid guess for his second-to-last form though). It's why I believe there's nothing wrong with taking it at face value & elaborated that the changes he made fall under superficial details, which doesn't affect the story if it's known. I hear you when you ask why he doesn't keep himself below "100%" in his natural form.

The likely answer for that, using the simplest assumption, is that he felt he shouldn't leave that part of himself "on". It may feel mostly okay to him but he likely finds it troublesome to keep from destroying things, relatively speaking. It's not as if he knows "traditional ki raising", just suppressing & releasing power all at once (as other members of his forces accomplished). The closest form of Namekian ki raising he did was through his percentages. It rounds back to my opening assumption though. It's likely the lowest percentage he was capable of was too wild for the west. As noted, by his own account, he felt he was growing too powerful & out of control. That just happened to be the solution he came up with on his own (probably because, as I'm echoing, it was easier to bother with). From here, I'm afraid it's apparent you may simply not like this element no matter the perception. That's fine with me. I can't support the notion that characters are outright lying without the narrative supporting such a conclusion (as in, one lie is equal to lies everywhere despite the statements being correct in context). It's too messy & leads away from the point. I do feel as if there was merit behind his motives & I provided them. It's not inherently baseless.

Future Trunks' comparison to Goku was thanks to his ki feeling intense, as characteristic of a Super Saiyan's presence. For the record & to be specific with the phrasing, Dragon Ball tends to utilize specific stock phrases for its strength comparisons. Instead of claiming Future Trunks had the same amount of ki Goku possessed, he used the more generic "same ki" statement. In context, it's in reference to Super Saiyan's aura rather than a specific battle power reading. It's such a minor detail but I assure you it's an important distinction. In any case, my original message said the duo wasn't pathetic just because Future Trunks was better. "The Gap", as commonly coined in this community, isn't the heart of matters.

You may have misread me. I said "Golden" was cited to be an evolution (again, not in a literal sense as evolution is to advancement). I didn't use that in reference to anything else, least of all his suppressed forms which I've established beforehand in previous posts. Regarding Chilled, my position was that he couldn't transform from the start. I'm afraid I don't feel the need to address that what with me never arguing that particular point. I've supported Freeza being the lone being capable in his universe.

[The shoe comparison isn't meant to be literal. I know they can't be compared with morphing bodies. The purpose was to illustrate the thought process I shared.]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-296/ Actually one thing before we start, in the Kanzenshuu manga guide, Freeza actually says that he can't control himself when transformed, so either it was a dubism, or the same in the original Japanese version. Or the manga guide is wrong. Freeza is five times stronger than the strongest of his men, he has shown the capability to not blow up his hover cart, when powering up. Freeza can suppress his power, in fact he was even capable of suppressing it while fighting Goku, enabling him to fight him without blowing him up with a single punch. In fact the manga chapter itself even refereed it to as his Freeza's super transformation not second suppressed form, not Freeza's second suppression. Freeza's super transformation

In fact in my if his forms were supressions, then they should all look more similar to his finial form

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I'm only going to use his first form for this, but why would he suddenly decide to have pink stripes adorning his body, why would he want horns? What would be the born of replacing the gems on his arms and legs with brown stripy, brown, brown things?
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But Freeza does know how to lower his ki, using the traditional way, Freeza in his first true form, is five times stronger than the strongest man he has, Freeza isn't breaking the ground every time he walks, when Freeza powers up, he doesn't break the hover pod. But I digress I do believe Freeza is possibly not telling the truth, because in the android arc we were introduced to king cold. And to be fair the forms can be augmentation's upon his true form the first form, and still act as a suppression fow when

I can support the idea that the character is not telling the truth in the narrative if the evidence, contradicts what they state, and the evidence has done nothing but contradict what Freeza has stated. Honestly its like Cell's solar busting statement in the cell arc, he said he could do it but he never did it, and even with his strongest super nova level blast he didn't even destroy the planet, so the evidence detracts from what he has said.

Except Goku didn't get a whole lot stronger as he spent most of his time on Yardrat training to master the instant transmission technique. So either a. Future trunks is stronger than Goku, B. future trunks is as strong as Goku, or C. Future Trunks is weaker than Goku, and Mecha Freeza is then weaker than him. You choose.

Nothing more to argue on chilled, since we basically agree that he was unlucky enough to not be capable of transformation.


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