Dbzfan94 wrote:I think people are so used to Super!Goku in the sub being a brainless moron who doesnt care about anything, that any indictation of him wanting to help and protect his family in the dub makes them triggered.
I don't think is that bad Goku expressing in this dub that he trains to protect his loved ones instead of just saying that is because of his fighting boner (may well include both). As a matter of fact I disliked Toriyama reveal that Goku see his family as just friends, so in my headcanon Goku has a bit of heroism and cares much for his family.
Yeah I don't like that reveal either. I'm with you there
Jesus Christ, I just reread that. That's just fucking awful that that's how he sees Goku's character. He clearly doesn't remember that there were spots that Goku showed genuine love for Chi Chi & his sons, plus his adoptive Grandfather, especially after he reread the manga from what I've heard, is just heartbreaking & character damaging.
Like I said though, at least the dub's trying to minimize, or balance out, the damage done with Goku's personality shift to make him a more rounded character. Wonder what that scene where Goku freaked out & beat the shit out of Black Zamasu when he revealed he killed Chi Chi & Goten after he switched their bodies was supposed to mean then. Was it in the manga, or has that yet to be seen? If it was, then Toriyama must've backtracked a bit. If it's not, then that's Toei trying to rerail Goku a bit.
The epic tale of how Sean Schemmel blocked me on Twitter:
I tagged him in a thread explaining how his performance wasn't rerecorded when FUNi were redoing parts of the early Z dub for the Orange Bricks.
He thought I was misrepresenting his work by saying he wasn't in something he was in.
I explained how that wasn't the situation & did a bit of a sarcastic kinda thing involving the rerecordings FUNi did for the Z dub to show how stupid that was.
He said they didn't record him & not use his recordings.
Blocked & he deleted his response tweets to me.
???
Profit...?
People throwing out the word "triggered" just because someone doesn't like the dub is annoying.
I know that Goku loves his family and friends and will protect them from danger, but that's not why he trains to get stronger. He doesn't train to keep his family and friends safe. He trains because he wants to better himself so he can face stronger opponents. So when dub Goku said that he was training to "keep you guys safe," it literally contradicts his motives and character.
MajinMan wrote:He doesn't train to keep his family and friends safe. He trains because he wants to better himself so he can face stronger opponents.
He can better himself for more than one reason. A lot of people seem to forget when talking about fictional characters that they can have more than one objective at a time. If Goku cares about Earth and his friends at all, which he obviously does, he's training to keep them safe as well.
MajinMan wrote:People throwing out the word "triggered" just because someone doesn't like the dub is annoying.
I know that Goku loves his family and friends and will protect them from danger, but that's not why he trains to get stronger. He doesn't train to keep his family and friends safe. He trains because he wants to better himself so he can face stronger opponents. So when dub Goku said that he was training to "keep you guys safe," it literally contradicts his motives and character.
Just because he says that, that doesn't mean he also doesn't train to better himself too
MajinMan wrote:He doesn't train to keep his family and friends safe. He trains because he wants to better himself so he can face stronger opponents.
He can better himself for more than one reason. A lot of people seem to forget when talking about fictional characters that they can have more than one objective at a time. If Goku cares about Earth and his friends at all, which he obviously does, he's training to keep them safe as well.
Yes, but that's kind of treated as an afterthought by Toriyama. The way he seems to treat Goku's character, it's as if Goku doesn't want to protect the Earth, only get stronger. That's not what's going on, but that's what it seems is how Toriyama sees him.
The epic tale of how Sean Schemmel blocked me on Twitter:
I tagged him in a thread explaining how his performance wasn't rerecorded when FUNi were redoing parts of the early Z dub for the Orange Bricks.
He thought I was misrepresenting his work by saying he wasn't in something he was in.
I explained how that wasn't the situation & did a bit of a sarcastic kinda thing involving the rerecordings FUNi did for the Z dub to show how stupid that was.
He said they didn't record him & not use his recordings.
Blocked & he deleted his response tweets to me.
???
Profit...?
MajinMan wrote:He doesn't train to keep his family and friends safe. He trains because he wants to better himself so he can face stronger opponents.
He can better himself for more than one reason. A lot of people seem to forget when talking about fictional characters that they can have more than one objective at a time. If Goku cares about Earth and his friends at all, which he obviously does, he's training to keep them safe as well.
Yes, but that's kind of treated as an afterthought by Toriyama. The way he seems to treat Goku's character, it's as if Goku doesn't want to protect the Earth, only get stronger. That's not what's going on, but that's what it seems is how Toriyama sees him.
You're half right. Goku does make poor judgement calls, to the point where it seems like he doesn't care. However, if the intent were to make Goku seem selfish, you'd expect more focus on that aspect. While Toriyama definitely flirted with the idea, it only came to pass when Toriyama was in dire need of an excuse to drive the plot forward, and therein lies the true problem. After Freeza, Goku only exists as a catalyst by which other characters have their stories told. He has no personality of his own again until the end of the Boo Arc. During that vacant period, Goku did a lot of dumb shit just to move the plot forward, and people often misinterpret that as genuine selfishness, even though that was never the intent, nor had that ever been a part of the character beforehand.
I figured I'd throw this out there for the sake of discussion: does the fact that somebody at Toei (namely, Lisa Yamatoya) signed off on this line* mean anything to you guys, or not really? I'm torn. On the one hand, she's not Akira Toriyama, but on the other hand, she is still somebody from the company that made the show, and I'm sure it's a fair assumption that if they bothered to have somebody at Toei do script approvals that she must have turned down some changes.
If anybody on the Kanzenshuu staff could get a hold of her, that'd be an interesting interview.
*To clarify, since it's a few pages back, a Lisa R. Yamatoya of Toei was mentioned in the credits as being in charge of ADR script approval.
DragonBallFoodie wrote:Will Funimation try to create some new scenes?
I don't think so. No dubbing company has ever done this, and there's no way one like Funi would or could.
Actually, 4Kids Entertainment actually did create some new scenes for the English dub of the fourth Pokémon film. (The animation for the fourth English opening theme of the Pokémon TV series was almost entirely animated specifically for 4Kids too.)
Not to say that it'd happen in this case unless HFIL freezes over, but it's not true that no dubbing company has ever had new scenes animated for the English release of an anime.
Anyway, I imagine flashbacks will either use Kai audio or be redubbed entirely, there's no reason they'd bring back old Z audio at this point.
-Toonami had Big O season 2 made.
-An American network had a season of Sonic X made
-An American network had a whole spin-off season of the original Yu-gi-oh made
-An early episode of Digimon had an extra scene added by the dubbing company to replace cut violent content from a battle (Patamon evolving into Piggymon and Hogmon)
-The original Toonami lineup featured tons of edits that had to be made to replace blood (now known as black dirt), nudity (tree branch in front of Goku's wang), language (HFIL), etc.
jjgp1112 wrote:Goku saying he wants to keep his friends and family safe is such an innocuous statement that people actually getting critical of it, as if him having even a shred of altruism or expressing a desire to protect his loved ones is Clark Kent levels of superheroism, is comically absurd and overreactionary to me.
Overreactionary is an understatement. Why are people acting like Goku has never fought for his loved ones? Isn't the whole reason he went SS because a loved one died? Then immediately sent everyone on Namek back to Earth to I dunno protect them. Or more recent example in BoG when he was losing to Beerus' death ball what happened? Oh yeah he had a vision of his friends and family... OMG shocking! He was also fighting Beerus for them too guess we have to chalk that down to Goku being OOC...
Goku doesn't seek out to be a superhero who saves the world as a great duty, but he is most definitely driven by wanting to keep his friends and family safe, and we see that repeatedly in his actions all throughout the series. Him expressing that isn't out of character in the least bit. It's like people go so far in resisting the original Z dub's presentation of his character that they go too far in the other direction and act like he's some dipshit who couldn't care less about anybody, like a pre-character development Vegeta without the evilness.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words? Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up! Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes! Cold World (Fanfic) "It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
jjgp1112 wrote:Goku doesn't seek out to be a superhero who saves the world as a great duty, but he is most definitely driven by wanting to keep his friends and family safe, and we see that repeatedly in his actions all throughout the series. Him expressing that isn't out of character in the least bit. It's like people go so far in resisting the original Z dub's presentation of his character that they go too far in the other direction and act like he's some dipshit who couldn't care less about anybody, like a pre-character development Vegeta without the evilness.
That line provides a depth to Goku's character we have been missing, that's why the line changes are most exciting part about it, it still feels lesser than original for some reason, I hope it's because I have been watching the original for too long and it's gonna settle down eventually
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
jjgp1112 wrote:Goku doesn't seek out to be a superhero who saves the world as a great duty, but he is most definitely driven by wanting to keep his friends and family safe, and we see that repeatedly in his actions all throughout the series. Him expressing that isn't out of character in the least bit. It's like people go so far in resisting the original Z dub's presentation of his character that they go too far in the other direction and act like he's some dipshit who couldn't care less about anybody, like a pre-character development Vegeta without the evilness.
Exactly, I feel like Japanese Super has wrongly warped people's perceptions
Is it weird that I was more excited for Kai TFC and thought it was better than the Super Dub? Was anybody else?
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball Episode 14: Goku's Rival wrote:
Muten Roshi: Bring me a Pichi-pichi gal here. Do that, and I can train you
Son Goku: What's a Bitchy bitchy gag?
Dragon Ball Super Chapter 24: Son Goku's Evolution wrote:
Zamasu:What about you?! Are you prepared to kneel before god?
Vegeta: Don't screw with me... I an the Prince of all Saiyans... Even if I have to die... ...I'LL NEVER GIVE UP MY PRIDE!!!
Innagadadavida wrote:I don't really think it's worth getting worked up about. Very soon we will have our own Wiki. And over time, it will be bigger, better, and more accurate than theirs. We'll have standards. We'll have quality control. We'll have better information. And I'm sure, people will naturally gravitate to it once there is some substance.
The best way to fix the giant cancer that is the DB Wiki is to provide an alternative for those who really want it. Even those who prefer dub names will wind up looking things up on the Kanzenshuu Wiki. Because sooner or later, they're going to need information they know they can trust.
penguintruth wrote:"New in 16:9! It's DBZ as you've partially seen it before!"
VegettoEX wrote:Gonna publish a book called “The Kanzenshuu” and it will have 199 blank pages followed by 1 page with text that simply says “nah Goku is gay though”.
precita wrote:All this thread proves is no matter what the dub does, even in the year 2017, people will complain.
None of this is really new. Did you really expect every singles person to like it? People are always gonna take issues with anything. It's nothing new. Not everyone is going to like the same thing. A vast majority might, but there will still be those who have their certain qualms with those things. This not only goes for dubs, this goes for everything.
Funimation's DB dubs have improved tremendously over the years. Scripting, writing, acting, it's gotten a lot better. That's what I think. But there's always gonna be people who don't think the same way you or I do and they might not like the dub.
What does the year have to do with anything, exactly?
Because the dub in terms of writing, acting and production is a million times better now than when DBZ was first dubbed in the U.S. back in 1997.
Just because it's better doesn't mean there aren't flaws. I don't know what the deal is with this anti-detraction attitude that's been developing, but it's backwards and wrong. Why not debate relevant criticisms instead of using buzz-words to write off criticism as a whole?
precita wrote:Because the dub in terms of writing, acting and production is a million times better now than when DBZ was first dubbed in the U.S. back in 1997.
Neither the year nor the writing, acting, or production can objectively determine this dub's quality. Many people do see it as good, as evidenced by this thread, but it's still subjective, which is why there are still people who dislike it.
shocking! He was also fighting Beerus for them too guess we have to chalk that down to Goku being OOC... 
