Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[dbs fanboy]

It seems they only focus on close up shots. Anything else look like crap including the most importent ones the fight movements

Ep 72, had nice cuts like some made by higashide if you don't like Tate's style, when ep 24, is ugly, lack movement and lack of impact.
And of course it's better animated than the first half of ep 5 and other super's episodes that i don't consider bad.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I mean... neat? You can nitpick in-between frames, literally anyone can do that to make anything seem as bad as they want to. Granted, your examples are highlighting some of Tate's lesser moments.

[JazzMazz]

To be fair, Tate was an animator on Z and his work on Z is nowhere near as good as his work on Super, even when it is very rough.
Z
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
Super
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Also I think it's an argument thats often used doesn't really hold any water. Dragonball doesn't have a specific style in which it moves, saying that it should move a certain is very creatively limiting for the franchise. Looking at the recent DBZ films like ROF shows that a change would definitely help the series.

[kinisking]

The hand thing that he did back in Z needs to return. The first clip has it at about 9 seconds.

[JazzMazz]

You mean them turning the hand into a smear before impact? Yeah, a lot of animators on Z did that. It happens like three or four times in this scene by Shimanuki.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[Alee9977]

It happened in Super in the Goku vs Monaka fight and it was really cool. Seems that Shimanuki can still give us scenes like that

[JazzMazz]

You mean this scene?
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[kinisking]

You mean them turning the hand into a smear before impact? Yeah, a lot of animators on Z did that. It happens like three or four times in this scene by Shimanuki.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Yeah, we need more of this.Also the impact where everything shakes.

[Shreyas_Singh]

We've had the "this is not dragon ball style this is Naruto animation " and "weird in betweens , loose style and schedule " discussion so many times yet there are still people with the " worse than episode 5 " comments . Somewhere in a corner Mr. Ajay is cringing . Also ,yeah we need more impact on the environment during the punches.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

We've had the "this is not dragon ball style this is Naruto animation " and "weird in betweens , loose style and schedule " discussion so many times yet there are still people with the " worse than episode 5 " comments . Somewhere in a corner Mr. Ajay is cringing . Also ,yeah we need more impact on the environment during the punches.

I think Ajay, like most of us, are far past the cringe phase. We've accepted the reality that ignoramuses exist and will make uneducated criticisms.

[cuartas]

''hmmm it does look like crap but that guy who is a famous with a big reputation was in charge so its maybe not that bad''

do you get my point?

THIS.

At the end what I see is this reputation or "status quo" thing.
it's really sad to see a lot of people working in DBS doing their best to make a work as polished as the schedule can allow it, and tate comes with something that shows no respect or love for our beloved anime that looks like crap sometimes, and it's not really impressive animation wise, but then people says: "Oh sempai, you did it again" and makes 3-5 videos of his 2 min cut, and puts every single second in the sakuga page, I'm not necessarily talking about this forum, but what I can say about this forum is that the closest criticism I have seen from the people is "rough" and abuse of the time excuse when all the animators are in the same conditions, and that's sad.

Me, personally, I'm still waiting for the super hiper mega episode that proves this guy fame.

BTW, that EP 5 goku shot looks better than the 72 shot

[Shreyas_Singh]

''hmmm it does look like crap but that guy who is a famous with a big reputation was in charge so its maybe not that bad''

do you get my point?

THIS.

At the end what I see is this reputation or "status quo" thing.
it's really sad to see a lot of people working in DBS doing their best to make a work as polished as the schedule can allow it, and tate comes with something that shows no respect or love for our beloved anime that looks like crap sometimes, and it's not really impressive animation wise, but then people says: "Oh sempai, you did it again" and makes 3-5 videos of his 2 min cut, and puts every single second in the sakuga page, I'm not necessarily talking about this forum, but what I can say about this forum is that the closest criticism I have seen from the people is "rough" and abuse of the time excuse when all the animators are in the same conditions, and that's sad.

Me, personally, I'm still waiting for the super hiper mega episode that proves this guy fame.

BTW, that EP 5 goku shot looks better than the 72 shot

Both the shots you're referring to are drawn by the same guy (ep5 and ep 72)Naoki Tate.
Also,you're free to not like someone's work obviously but if you're not sure you can see his other work on Sakugabooru that are not related to this show,which has a tough schedule. As for other animators drawing on model yeah they choose to do so but every animator isn't the same .I guess you'd rather have on model stuff than something abstract and that's understandable. Naoki Tate has been around since cell arc and tries something different instead of making it safe and boring,but no matter what I say here you'll think that I'm making excuses so its kinda pointless. So if you think Tate sucks,that's fine but let's not pass judgement on whether he loves the show or not,he's been around for a while so I don't think he hates the show. In fact he animates so much almost every week despite the time crunch, when he could easily get a job on another project just goes to show his passion.

[Ajay]

Somewhere in a corner Mr. Ajay is cringing .

I think Ajay, like most of us, are far past the cringe phase.

Definitely still cringing. Unfortunately too busy this week to interject with anything worthwhile.

As always, I don't expect this thread to be an echo chamber, but I do expect the conversation to be conducted in a reasonable and informed manner.

That isn't really happening right now.

[Mazingerdestro]

that btw wasent at all in the future trunks arc. because this isnt dragon ball. never was. never will. in db z and gt the same rules applies. charecters dont move like that. this is something from newer animes like naruto or one piece. so if you a fan of those shows and you like this then suit yourself. but I'm a dragon ball purist. I'm watching other animes but not in the action genre. for me it was and allwayes be dragon ball. so to see my favorite media being ruined like this. this aint making me happy. and dont forget toryama himeself trashed db super animation

Experience? What? Did you tag me by mistake? I don't even get what you are saying....
This argument sounds like something from youtube.

[gohan_black]

I wish i could post pictures from ep 72 on my phone and show you how many errors this episode had

[Ki Breaker]

Also ,yeah we need more impact on the environment during the punches.

We definitely do, even fb is starting to pop out stuff related to this..
The punches barely graze over sometimes

[Doctor.]

I've definitely grown to dislike Tate's animation as Super went on. I feel like I liked him at first because, well, there really wasn't any other choice, was there? Everyone was terrible and Tate was really the only putting out actual fluid and interesting animation. But as the production got better, the animators started being able to cope with the harsh schedule and animators like Shida started being brought in to animate some cuts, Tate's flaws have become more apparent to me.

I feel like a great part of what turns me off about his animation are the awkward poses. I'm sure everyone is familiar by this point with this frame. People wouldn't complain about it for no reason. It's awkward-looking. It wouldn't be a problem if it were an in-between but it's not, it stays on-screen for a relatively long period of time, long enough where you can notice it and break your immersion. That's not the only one, here's another, another one and one more. These feel like they should be in-betweens but they're not, they just awkwardly stay in place for a few seconds. There are countless of other examples in Tate's work.

My main personal gripe with him is his art style. I don't like it. It doesn't feel like Dragon Ball. The big noses, the chubby hands, the round ears way above the jawline, the long chins, the facial expressions that look straight-up like something Luffy would pull, the round and wobbly eyes. It's all very un-Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is angular, the rounded shapes have been abandoned ever since the Freeza arc. When you combine his art style, which lacks detail, with his fluid animation, most of the time it just looks like big blobs of different colors flying around and fighting each other. I know an animator doesn't need to stick with the character sheets, but what makes someone like Shida so good is that his animation is fantastic and his art is detailed, especially his shading; you can at least recognize that it looks like Dragon Ball, perhaps not his particular style of animation, but at least his art does. You can criticize Yamamuro all you want, but he's much closer to Toriyama's style than Tate. When you get to a Tate scene, you receive a sort of animation whiplash akin to watching an episode by Nakatsuru or Yamamuro in the old days and then watching one by Ebisawa or Uchiyama. Of course Tate's work is technically superior to these two, but that doesn't really matter, the point is the significant difference between Tate's art style and everyone else working on the show.

Don't hate me, Ajay.

[Shreyas_Singh]

I've definitely grown to dislike Tate's animation as Super went on. I feel like I liked him at first because, well, there really wasn't any other choice, was there? Everyone was terrible and Tate was really the only putting out actual fluid and interesting animation. But as the production got better, the animators started being able to cope with the harsh schedule and animators like Shida started being brought in to animate some cuts, Tate's flaws have become more apparent to me.

I feel like a great part of what turns me off about his animation are the awkward poses. I'm sure everyone is familiar by this point with this frame. People wouldn't complain about it for no reason. It's awkward-looking. It wouldn't be a problem if it were an in-between but it's not, it stays on-screen for a relatively long period of time, long enough where you can notice it and break your immersion. That's not the only one, here's another, another one and one more. These feel like they should be in-betweens but they're not, they just awkwardly stay in place for a few seconds. There are countless of other examples in Tate's work.

My main personal gripe with him is his art style. I don't like it. It doesn't feel like Dragon Ball. The big noses, the chubby hands, the round ears way above the jawline, the long chins, the facial expressions that look straight-up like something Luffy would pull, the round and wobbly eyes. It's all very un-Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is angular, the rounded shapes have been abandoned ever since the Freeza arc. When you combine his art style, which lacks detail, with his fluid animation, most of the time it just looks like big blobs of different colors flying around and fighting each other. I know an animator doesn't need to stick with the character sheets, but what makes someone like Shida so good is that his animation is fantastic and his art is detailed, especially his shading; you can at least recognize that it looks like Dragon Ball, perhaps not his particular style of animation, but at least his art does. You can criticize Yamamuro all you want, but he's much closer to Toriyama's style than Tate. When you get to a Tate scene, you receive a sort of animation whiplash akin to watching an episode by Nakatsuru or Yamamuro in the old days and then watching one by Ebisawa or Uchiyama. Of course Tate's work is technically superior to these two, but that doesn't really matter, the point is the significant difference between Tate's art style and everyone else working on the show.

Don't hate me, Ajay.

Very well said,I agree with the fact that his chubby round simple style is not for everyone. However, I think you've ignored two very vital pieces of information here my friend: Time and quantity. You see ,the problem with comparing Shida to Tate on the same show is that both have had different amount of time and quantity to given to them to get the job done. Shida (who's been known to take his own sweet time) has made only two animation cuts on Super and is not a regular like Tate . So the time Shida gets between episode 57 and episode 66 is a lot more time than what Tate gets. You see,if you follow Ajay's animation guide regularly you'll see that Tate does animation in almost every 2-3 episodes and so if you combine the two factors like the amount of time Tate gets and the quantity of animation he makes it becomes apparent why it's so simplified and rough. Higashide does the same but since he's an on model guy his work doesn't suffer as much so I think Higashide should be a fairer comparison instead of Shida. About the "un Dragon Ball" style thing,there's no rule that says Dragon ball should look like ,but anyway, until the schedule improves it's really hard to tell whether Tate is simply rushed or has gotten worse as an animator like some are implying here.

[Doctor.]

Very well said,I agree with the fact that his chubby round simple style is not for everyone. However, I think you've ignored two very vital pieces of information here my friend: Time and quantity. You see ,the problem with comparing Shida to Tate on the same show is that both have had different amount of time and quantity to given to them to get the job done. Shida (who's been known to take his own sweet time) has made only two animation cuts on Super and is not a regular like Tate . So the time Shida gets between episode 57 and episode 66 is a lot more time than what Tate gets. You see,if you follow Ajay's animation guide regularly you'll see that Tate does animation in almost every 2-3 episodes and so if you combine the two factors like the amount of time Tate gets and the quantity of animation he makes it becomes apparent why it's so simplified and rough. Higashide does the same but since he's an on model guy his work doesn't suffer as much so I think Higashide should be a fairer comparison instead of Shida.

I only used Shida as an example because he's a case of an animator who doesn't stick with the character sheets yet still manages to make his art look like Dragon Ball. Higashide would have probably been a better example taking into account the time and the quantity of cuts, but his work isn't as technically advanced as Tate's.

About the "un Dragon Ball" style thing,there's no rule that says Dragon ball should look like

Oh, this is where we have to disagree. Dragon Ball is a manga by Akira Toriyama. Dragon Ball should look like Akira Toriyama's work. And, in that respect, almost every animator who has ever worked on Super manages to achieve that better than Tate does.

[cuartas]

''hmmm it does look like crap but that guy who is a famous with a big reputation was in charge so its maybe not that bad''

do you get my point?

THIS.

At the end what I see is this reputation or "status quo" thing.
it's really sad to see a lot of people working in DBS doing their best to make a work as polished as the schedule can allow it, and tate comes with something that shows no respect or love for our beloved anime that looks like crap sometimes, and it's not really impressive animation wise, but then people says: "Oh sempai, you did it again" and makes 3-5 videos of his 2 min cut, and puts every single second in the sakuga page, I'm not necessarily talking about this forum, but what I can say about this forum is that the closest criticism I have seen from the people is "rough" and abuse of the time excuse when all the animators are in the same conditions, and that's sad.

Me, personally, I'm still waiting for the super hiper mega episode that proves this guy fame.

BTW, that EP 5 goku shot looks better than the 72 shot

Both the shots you're referring to are drawn by the same guy (ep5 and ep 72)Naoki Tate.
Also,you're free to not like someone's work obviously but if you're not sure you can see his other work on Sakugabooru that are not related to this show,which has a tough schedule. As for other animators drawing on model yeah they choose to do so but every animator isn't the same .I guess you'd rather have on model stuff than something abstract and that's understandable. Naoki Tate has been around since cell arc and tries something different instead of making it safe and boring,but no matter what I say here you'll think that I'm making excuses so its kinda pointless. So if you think Tate sucks,that's fine but let's not pass judgement on whether he loves the show or not,he's been around for a while so I don't think he hates the show. In fact he animates so much almost every week despite the time crunch, when he could easily get a job on another project just goes to show his passion.

Emm you didn't say anything I don't really know, like at this point Idk episode 5 is from tate? Lol.
I was referring to despite the schedule got better, his art got worse, way too worse.